Meditation

[nhoeg]

Hi all
I'm not very active on the threads here these days, but I still check kavaforums almost daily. This subforum about meditation and spirituality looks interesting

I would like to start practicing meditation - daily, if possible. I have tried it some times before, but I really suck at it. Shutting of the mind is so hard for me, really. People say stuff like "It's easy dude, you just need to turn off your thoughts and acces your subconsciousness" - yeah right, so easy. I am so bad at doing that, and I have never really understood the thing about meditation. I have friends that tell me that they could not live without it. When I try meditating, I always end up getting frustrated about the fact that nothing is happening - my mind keeps thinking about everything.

Kava definitely helps with this. But I would like to do it without kava. Do you guys have any guidance for this? Or do you any ideas on good applications that is suitable for people with racing minds like me?

 

[Sam Handwich]

I can offer no help other than sharing your interest. Looking forward to seeing where this thread goes.

 

[EQ]

The real secret to getting good at meditation isn't practicing meditation but being mindful constantly. What that means is to not think about the past and future and observe the moment. This in itself will lead guidance to the true nature of consciousness, but how it applies to meditation is the mind will be in a calm state always and when you chose to meditate it comes easily.
Here is an excellent book:
Amazon productThis book will help you enter jhana which is a state of extreme rapturous bliss. I personally cannot hold jhana for more than 10 seconds because the joy is too intense and I churn over like I hit crack often leaving me high for the rest of the day. I've read about people hitting tantric yogic states where they become high for days and literally run marathons around their town.


My tips on maintaining mindfulness:

• Catch yourself with thoughts that don't matter and simply ignore it like you would an ad on the internet. Observe it's existence and simply don't take part
• Put attention on the moment. What you hear,smell,see, touch. What ends up happening is intensive joy. Literally you will have moments of just sitting in a chair but you just feel such pleasure and rapture your face could come out smiling displaying true radiance that is often perceived as drug influenced or foolery.
• Never indulge thoughts unless they pertain to what you intend.
• The idea that language is synthetic and is based on learned past labels of true notion. Learn to think without language. This is completely possible and results in joy and rapture.
• Breath deep. Be aware of how you breath. Breath as if you came up from being underwater. Deep breaths from the heart and spine.
• Don't indulge cultural values or any idea or any ideaology that isn't your own. Don't give thought to institutions. Reclaim your mind and you will awake to ultimate awareness.

 

[Steve Mariotti]

I practice mindfulness. Check out the app called "Headspace" on your phone. Plug in some headphones and listen to his voice. It's straight-up scientifically proven mindfulness without the trappings of mysticism and chakras and all that bit. "Meditation" has always put me off with all of the layers of mysticism built into what is a fantastic benefit for you mentally, physically, and emotionally. That's what I call "Mindfulness". Which is the practice without the dressing up.

EVERYONE sucks at Mindfulness/Meditation. Your friends were lying to you when they said "it's easy." People who have been at it for 30 years and who sit in meditation for 8 hours straight would never tell you it's easy. It's fucking hard.

My brain is like a moth in a jar. Mindfulness kicks my ass every single time. But the important thing to remember is "any is better than none" and "if you're distracted, recognize that and return to your breaths." There's only better and better, not bad and good.

And there's no hokum involved. Just sit comfortably, take a few deep breaths to really oxygenate your blood, then close your eyes and start listening around you. Get aware of your surroundings, and where you are in them. Then start focusing on your breath and counting breaths (count to small numbers like 2, 8 or 10) and when you realize you're thinking about something, just return to counting. No judgment, nothing to feel bad about, no "I SUCK AT THIS!" internal monologue. Everyone does. Just return to counting whenever you're distracted.

Do this for 10 minutes at first. When you're done, back yourself out of it (return to thinking about your surroundings and breathing without counting before opening your eyes) for a few minutes and you're done.

Remember: It really works, and any is better than none.

 

[EQ]

I practice mindfulness. Check out the app called "Headspace" on your phone. Plug in some headphones and listen to his voice. It's straight-up scientifically proven mindfulness without the trappings of mysticism and chakras and all that bit. "Meditation" has always put me off with all of the layers of mysticism built into what is a fantastic benefit for you mentally, physically, and emotionally. That's what I call "Mindfulness". Which is the practice without the dressing up.

EVERYONE sucks at Mindfulness/Meditation. Your friends were lying to you when they said "it's easy." People who have been at it for 30 years and who sit in meditation for 8 hours straight would never tell you it's easy. It's fucking hard.

My brain is like a moth in a jar. Mindfulness kicks my ass every single time. But the important thing to remember is "any is better than none" and "if you're distracted, recognize that and return to your breaths." There's only better and better, not bad and good.

And there's no hokum involved. Just sit comfortably, take a few deep breaths to really oxygenate your blood, then close your eyes and start listening around you. Get aware of your surroundings, and where you are in them. Then start focusing on your breath and counting breaths (count to small numbers like 2, 8 or 10) and when you realize you're thinking about something, just return to counting. No judgment, nothing to feel bad about, no "I SUCK AT THIS!" internal monologue. Everyone does. Just return to counting whenever you're distracted.

Do this for 10 minutes at first. When you're done, back yourself out of it (return to thinking about your surroundings and breathing without counting before opening your eyes) for a few minutes and you're done.

Remember: It really works, and any is better than none.

I agree it is hard. Takes years really. But why let that bring you down right. Its something to just start doing and you simply get better over time.
Mindfullness/meditation are skills fine tuned over a lifetime but it is worth it. Because once you get a true taste of it you can see value in it.

 

[Groggy]

Some nights I am able to lie still in bed, I try to get as comfortable as possible and with deep steady breathing I can achieve deep relaxation (about 20-30 minutes), with the typical things most people know about already, tense and release muscles, picture your ideal serene place, etc.
It's a time I use to organize my thoughts, let go of my worries, I usually put some ocean waves on the background off I go.
The hardest part is having the discipline to Practice it everyday. I have had some pretty magical and introspective experiences.

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

Any experience no matter how beautiful is only temporary.

@nhoeg have you ever "been in the zone" while playing a sport?

How long does it take to be who you are?

 

[Groggy]

Any experience no matter how beautiful is only temporary.

That should be your sig, well said!

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

Your right ! I'm gonna do that lol!

 

[GussWest]

"Mindfulness in Plain English" by Henepola Gunaratana.

It is a free pdf and you can buy the books. I buy a few at a time, because I end up giving them away.
This is the best nuts and bolts how-to guide I have found for new mindfulness practitioners.

Namaste.

 

[dino9832]

EQ put it beautifully, but I think the best way to remember this is observe a dog or cat.
Seriously, my cat is a Zen master!..lol. And dogs, I don't think I've ever seen a more pure approach to being in the moment. Language is synthetic? Never indulge thoughts unless they pertain to what you intend? Don't give thought to institutions? My dogs have it all down perfectly! Even the attention on the moment with sound, smell, touch, etc..

The human mind is an awesome thing. But, our intelligence is what separates us from our biological selves. It separates us from being in the moment. Living one minute to the next. Just kick back and try to think how a dog would. Ask yourself "What would my dog be thinking right now?"

...
My tips on maintaining mindfulness:

• Catch yourself with thoughts that don't matter and simply ignore it like you would an ad on the internet. Observe it's existence and simply don't take part
• Put attention on the moment. What you hear,smell,see, touch. What ends up happening is intensive joy. Literally you will have moments of just sitting in a chair but you just feel such pleasure and rapture your face could come out smiling displaying true radiance that is often perceived as drug influenced or foolery.
• Never indulge thoughts unless they pertain to what you intend.
• The idea that language is synthetic and is based on learned past labels of true notion. Learn to think without language. This is completely possible and results in joy and rapture.
• Breath deep. Be aware of how you breath. Breath as if you came up from being underwater. Deep breaths from the heart and spine.
• Don't indulge cultural values or any idea or any ideaology that isn't your own. Don't give thought to institutions. Reclaim your mind and you will awake to ultimate awareness.

 

[nhoeg]

Any experience no matter how beautiful is only temporary.

@nhoeg have you ever "been in the zone" while playing a sport?

How long does it take to be who you are?

I can definitely relate to being "in the zone" while doing sports. This is acutally the only time where I easily get the 'meditative feeling' (like when I'm going for a long run). But apart from that, I think it is hard.

Thank you all for your posts, I will look into all the stuff you guys have suggested

 

[blindy107]

I can definitely relate to being "in the zone" while doing sports. This is acutally the only time where I easily get the 'meditative feeling' (like when I'm going for a long run). But apart from that, I think it is hard.

Thank you all for your posts, I will look into all the stuff you guys have suggested

I agree with @Steve Mariotti , the headspace app can really help when you are just starting out.

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

@nhoeg
That is all there is to it.

There's a space of alert perception, and not a lack of thought but a lack of compulsive thinking.
Thought is clear sharp and useful.

Not self serving and autonomous

How to access this. You cant.
You are it already. You are awareness before thought. There's nowhere to get to.
Just accept that right now you are thinking and ask yourself. I wonder what my next thought is going to be. Then like a cat or a dog watch like a cat watches a mousehole.
Waiting with patience. That's presence.

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

If your using kava to help with meditation then the best way to approach it is this.

Start going into the body before any kava.
Pay attention to breathing ( not breathing techniques or any control of breath JUST WATCH IT)
ask your self "Who am i" or "What am i"

Then drink the first shell.

Continue doing the above steps as you continue to drink each shell gauging it's effects.. there's a point where kava becomes a hindrance rather than a help.
Stop there and stick with the body.
If any euphoria arises. Don't give in to it. Don't become dependant on it. Just realize it's one with what is and will pass no matter what... keep staying with what is.

 

[24601]

I've just bought some heavier kavas and am looking forward to seeing what meditation is like on them. I find the phone app "Calm" helpful because it has a lot of guided meditations.

I used to be really interested in the Shamanic practice of journeying, which was difficult to get into but reminds me a little of meditation. Maybe because I've read more about Neo-Shamanism (and actually practiced it for a while)... I'd love to observe a more ancient ritual.

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

All the shamanistic stuff is based on intuition rather than ritual in the sense of repeated movements or chants for an exact effect each time as myself and many think it is.

Some things or traditions may resonate with you, and other not. however it is always up to present moment experience to determine what to do.

Take an eye ball for example.
it cannot see itself, except through a mirror. Which isnt really itself just a reflection.
So too is form, (being conscious of something) is a reflection of consciousness itself.
Because consciousness to cannot become aware of itself. because it IS itself already.

Shamanism is another aspect of the world of form.
Forms include, everything, but i will break it down through my experience right now.

We have the form of the 5 senses. Sight,sound, touch, taste, and smell

We have thought forms, which vibrate at a higher frequency than matter, which is why the 5 senses cant experience thought.
We have emotion, which is the bodys reaction to our thoughts, or a reflection of thought in the body.

we have Chi, or the inner body, or chakras, or qi, or life blood, or movement, whichever you want to call it. which is the bridge between formless and form, the body and consciousness.

You could say it gets thinner at each layer, less dense, less materialized. Which is true on a chemical level, matter has less space than pure energy, more space means more room to move and thus generate higher frequency, frequency of atoms moving in that free space, or consciousness.

Then we have the formless, undefinable one source of all life, life itself, the Now stripped of its context. stripped of person. or self.

This is what we are concerned with. That is the source of shamanism, religion, science, and your breath at this moment.

When you become to fixed on any one without staying rooted in yourself. ( the now) then they become destructive.

Shamanism stripped of true realization causes dependance on plants, and a destructive psychonaut attitude, of give me give me give me, giving from yourself to the plant nothing in return.
religion without rootedness is too clear to see what that does, but the pope as of now and mother teresa etc. are great examples of religion and presence being merged beautifully.
Science once again there are countless examples of how science not rooted in wisdom is destructive. aka (the pharmaceutical industry), atom bombs, napalm, pesticides, and too many other countless examples, the classic frankenstien.

Do not confuse any form for spirituality itself, forms can be any of the perceptive forms i named above, and can be situations, lifetimes, plant spirits, energys of anykind, sounds, states of being, states of consciousness, these are all some kind of form, how do i know? Because they are all temporary. If its temporary its a form, if its a form its temporary.

Spritiuality is a word, a form,

consciousness is a word a form,

thats why the dao te ching starts off that
the dao that can be named is not the eternal dao

The consciousness that is called consciousness is not consciousness.
The room for these words to be read is consciousness.
You may say no thats sight, but what would sight be without space, depth, spacial awareness itself.

You have sight, sound and taste, but who sees, hears, and tastes,
you have thought but who knows your thinking?
better yet who knows when your not thinking?

Shamanism is a connection with mother earth and the universe, through Presence first, plants second, rituals third, and ideology never.