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Need to maintain sleep mixed review

Boklos

Newbie
I had neck trauma 2 years ago and went from sleeping like a baby to waking up 25-30 times a night. All treatments failed except for Clonazepam that I tried for 3 months and got tolerance now my doctor wants to taper it off. My initial 3-4 hrs if sleep are easy, I'm taking valerian root and california poppy and passion flower and I sleep 3-4 hrs, but they can't keep up after that, and arousals intensity increases.

Clonazepam could tame them another 3 hrs , then I sleep wake for another 2 hrs and I'm up, not refreshed, need coffee but I can function.

I was recommended kava, and so far they say the borongoru vanuatu from kwk is the best but then some people say it keeps them waking up more, others have to time the doses or combine it with something else

Could you help?
I need to either sleep the whole 8hrs( hard) or if I keep my routine, and wake up after 3 hrs, take kava and sleep another 5 hrs.

Advice me please on which brand/type, how to take it in the day or before bed and then midsleep. What to mix it with if needed, and alluball or straining method.

Thanks!
 

Precipitated

Kava Curious
My first word of advice would be to do follow your doctor advice and taper off clonazepam. It is meant to be used only as short term remedy, not for longer than 1-2 weeks max. 3 months is not the end of the world, but long enough time to develop some chemical dependency. So depending on your dosage, you can expect your insomnia worsen in the short term. Gradual tapering can make it gentler. How much are you taking each night?

As to answer your question, there doesn't seem to be any clear-cut answer. Peoples reactions to different Kavas vary a lot. I myself got interested in Kava as I'm fighting insomnia caused by long term heavy benzo use, and so far have not yet found any strain to improve sleep reliably. Granted I haven't tried too many different strains. :)

It is my experience and what I've read from this forum as well, that most people can't take it too close to the bed time as it will interfere with sleep. So I'm not sure how it would work with middle of the night dosing. I've seen one or two people saying that having a shell when they wake up in the middle of the night helps them go back to sleep. I've tried it once and didn't get any more sleep that night. :D In my case, there seems to be more ways to make Kava a net negative for sleep, than positive. But that's just me. Others seem to get improved sleep after drinking Kava, so your experience may well differ from mine.

I believe Kava can help with sleeping better, one just needs to find the right strain and time of dosage. So I advise you test out different strains. Go for the ones marked as "Heavy" or "Balanced" as they have more of the sedating and relaxing kavalactones. You also need to figure out what time is best for you to take it. Some people say that having 2 hours between last shell and bedtime is enough. For me it seems to be more like 5-6 hours.

Also I encourage you to test different preparation methods to find out what works the best for you. I've never used aluball, but I guess it would be the convenient way to prepare Kava, but reportedly results in a slight weaker drink. I usually go for traditional prep as it is very easy and kneading the Kava is also quite relaxing.
 

Boklos

Newbie
My first word of advice would be to do follow your doctor advice and taper off clonazepam. It is meant to be used only as short term remedy, not for longer than 1-2 weeks max. 3 months is not the end of the world, but long enough time to develop some chemical dependency. So depending on your dosage, you can expect your insomnia worsen in the short term. Gradual tapering can make it gentler. How much are you taking each night?

As to answer your question, there doesn't seem to be any clear-cut answer. Peoples reactions to different Kavas vary a lot. I myself got interested in Kava as I'm fighting insomnia caused by long term heavy benzo use, and so far have not yet found any strain to improve sleep reliably. Granted I haven't tried too many different strains. :)

It is my experience and what I've read from this forum as well, that most people can't take it too close to the bed time as it will interfere with sleep. So I'm not sure how it would work with middle of the night dosing. I've seen one or two people saying that having a shell when they wake up in the middle of the night helps them go back to sleep. I've tried it once and didn't get any more sleep that night. :D In my case, there seems to be more ways to make Kava a net negative for sleep, than positive. But that's just me. Others seem to get improved sleep after drinking Kava, so your experience may well differ from mine.

I believe Kava can help with sleeping better, one just needs to find the right strain and time of dosage. So I advise you test out different strains. Go for the ones marked as "Heavy" or "Balanced" as they have more of the sedating and relaxing kavalactones. You also need to figure out what time is best for you to take it. Some people say that having 2 hours between last shell and bedtime is enough. For me it seems to be more like 5-6 hours.

Also I encourage you to test different preparation methods to find out what works the best for you. I've never used aluball, but I guess it would be the convenient way to prepare Kava, but reportedly results in a slight weaker drink. I usually go for traditional prep as it is very easy and kneading the Kava is also quite relaxing.
Thanks! It is confusing with all different strains and different reactions of each person.
Wouldn't micronised makeore sense then? Specially for mid sleep remedy or midsleep top off ? More potent with less quantity and less preparation and less water to drink ( not to go to the bathroom?)

Have you tried micronised or do you advise it? After you were off benzo, how do you sleep? Do you use other herbs/supps? Like valerian root or magnolia bark, etc..?

Thanks
 

babesugarbunny

Kava Enthusiast
I've used benzo for sleeping a couple of periods, but it usually ends up with a dependency and then a taper of period with even worse sleep.
Kava have actually been really good at making the tapering less of a pain in the ass. Heavy kavas with some melatonin is working great for me and I don't wake up multiple times during the night. Every time I feel like I'm never gonna fall asleep, I take 3mg of melatonin and it always ends up with me falling asleep without even getting tired or anything at first. I don't notice any psychoactive effects at all from melatonin, it just makes me fall asleep.

Micronized (What I know it's only KWK that sells micronized and I would rather recommend instant kavas from other brands if you want the hassle free option) seems like a good alternative for you if you wanna try taking a dose if you wake up during the night. Traditional grind will result in more liquid as you say, but I often make me brew with less water so that it's stronger but less liquid. But I don't really have a problem with the taste.

I use valerian root, St John's-wort and chamomile during the evening. Right now I am experimenting with Mulungu as well, but it's a less known botanical where the research is mostly on animals. It's a tree barch used in traditional medicin in Brazil.
 

Precipitated

Kava Curious
Sorry, I can't comment on micronized or instant Kavas, as I only have experience with medium grinds. (I'm also quite new to Kava). But I'd echo what babesugarbunny said, if potency and amount of liquid is a concern, you can always go for stronger brew via traditional preparation. You could make a strong batch in the evening, water down most of it for normal consumption and leave some undiluted in the fridge, in case you need to top off the dose in the nighttime.

My sleep has been really messed up ever since I got off benzos. I always had sleeping problems, but benzo withdrawal really made a number on it. In the acute withdrawal phase it was common to go 2-3 nights without sleep without any sleep. (At one point I was even hallucinating due to sleep deprivation). It's been over 5 years since I quit and currently I'm sleeping 5 hours on average (some nights 6-7 hours, some nights none, most nights somewhere in between) But then again I was taking really stupid doses for a better part of a decade. (6mg clonazepam per day at peak)

I've tried more or less every supplement indicated for insomnia, and all they did was thin my wallet. I've survived this madness thanks to low dose mirtazepine, that's allowed me get some much needed rest. But the side effects have grown intolerable. (irritability, grogginess)

I used to think that my sleeping ability is permanently ruined thanks to benzos wrecking havoc on my nervous system, but lately I've realized that my sleep issues are in large part perpetuated by my own thought patterns and anxiety about not sleeping well. So I've grown quite interested in cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia (CBTi) and am planning in starting sleep restriction therapy in a couple of weeks. It seems really tough, but intuitively seems like something that could help. There is also evidence that it can help with secondary insomnia (insomnia caused by pain or some other medical condition). If Kava doesn't help you, then perhaps this is something to look into?
 

AlexisReal

Kava Enthusiast
I had neck trauma 2 years ago and went from sleeping like a baby to waking up 25-30 times a night. All treatments failed except for Clonazepam that I tried for 3 months and got tolerance now my doctor wants to taper it off. My initial 3-4 hrs if sleep are easy, I'm taking valerian root and california poppy and passion flower and I sleep 3-4 hrs, but they can't keep up after that, and arousals intensity increases.

Clonazepam could tame them another 3 hrs , then I sleep wake for another 2 hrs and I'm up, not refreshed, need coffee but I can function.

I was recommended kava, and so far they say the borongoru vanuatu from kwk is the best but then some people say it keeps them waking up more, others have to time the doses or combine it with something else

Could you help?
I need to either sleep the whole 8hrs( hard) or if I keep my routine, and wake up after 3 hrs, take kava and sleep another 5 hrs.

Advice me please on which brand/type, how to take it in the day or before bed and then midsleep. What to mix it with if needed, and alluball or straining method.

Thanks!
Stone kava from N@H is "heavy", which probably transmutes to seep assistence.

I recently heard a passionate declaration by a member saying one particular cuktivar has been a godsend to them for really putting them out.

Kavasociety NZ Borogoru. New to their range this year after building requests for a heavier Kava.
 

Stephanie12

Herbalist
Thanks! It is confusing with all different strains and different reactions of each person.
Wouldn't micronised makeore sense then? Specially for mid sleep remedy or midsleep top off ? More potent with less quantity and less preparation and less water to drink ( not to go to the bathroom?)

Have you tried micronised or do you advise it? After you were off benzo, how do you sleep? Do you use other herbs/supps? Like valerian root or magnolia bark, etc..?

Thanks
I took valerian for about 8 months to a year. That stuff really put me to sleep! Then I gradually needed to take more and more. One night after waking up and taking several doses, I realized that no matter how much extra I took, I would not sleep. Nothing else in my life, including the past year I have been gradually tapering off Clonazepam has been as bad of a withdrawal as the two sleepless weeks I spent kicking off Valerian root. I also wonder if the reason people say kava doesn't help them sleep has to do with the water they prepare it in?
 

AlexisReal

Kava Enthusiast
Melatonin, is notorious and popular, reported very helpful with proper sleeping.

Also 5htp, not at all a groggy and hungover effect in my experience, as I felt with Valerian.

I'm allergic to those two supplements.

Chamomile tea- actually WORKS!

But also- Bluelight exposure while you sleep. Any electrical light, even if a small light on a plug socket, emanating from under the bed, TV standbuy light, or light under your bedroom door, or street lights through curtains.

If you can totally cut out all or as much as possible, Bluelight from your sleeping area, as Bluelight prevents REM and deep sleep, plus your brain will automatically produce more melatonin in those circumstances, and with regular practise I predict the levels of Melatonin would build up and sleep quality, ease, restfulness, routined, and refreshing.

You can get special Plastic goggles which filter out Bluelight as well, or a decent material Eye mask.

If not for my allergies, I feel confident I would be using 5htp capsules at night for a really pleasant, effective sleep aid with no hangover effect.
 

Groggy

Kava aficionado
Admin
@Boklos Excellent advice all around! The only thing I can add on the kava front is my opinion on getting an instant kava for the middle of the night, I recommend specifically you not waste any time or money and get GHK Nene Instant. Cost aside, it's the only real instant and it is also the best there is, next to fresh.

You only need a couple teaspoons to a tablespoon with 6-8oz of water for the a very effective dose.
 

Edward

Aluballin' in the UK
Kava Vendor
I had neck trauma 2 years ago and went from sleeping like a baby to waking up 25-30 times a night. All treatments failed except for Clonazepam that I tried for 3 months and got tolerance now my doctor wants to taper it off. My initial 3-4 hrs if sleep are easy, I'm taking valerian root and california poppy and passion flower and I sleep 3-4 hrs, but they can't keep up after that, and arousals intensity increases.

Clonazepam could tame them another 3 hrs , then I sleep wake for another 2 hrs and I'm up, not refreshed, need coffee but I can function.

I was recommended kava, and so far they say the borongoru vanuatu from kwk is the best but then some people say it keeps them waking up more, others have to time the doses or combine it with something else

Could you help?
I need to either sleep the whole 8hrs( hard) or if I keep my routine, and wake up after 3 hrs, take kava and sleep another 5 hrs.

Advice me please on which brand/type, how to take it in the day or before bed and then midsleep. What to mix it with if needed, and alluball or straining method.

Thanks!
Personally I find heavy Fijian kavas the most sedative although any heavy kava should do the trick. With repeated use you should see quite a difference. Try Hiwa from GHK or Superior Fijian from Root of Happiness, both pretty reliable for me. I've slept up to 12 hours on a strong session but I average a good solid 8 hours a night when I'm drinking a good heavy kava. Sometimes something will wake me up, maybe even just to use the toilet, but it doesn't take long and I'm back to sleep. Magic stuff.
 

AlexisReal

Kava Enthusiast
@Boklos Excellent advice all around! The only thing I can add on the kava front is my opinion on getting an instant kava for the middle of the night, I recommend specifically you not waste any time or money and get GHK Nene Instant. Cost aside, it's the only real instant and it is also the best there is, next to fresh.

You only need a couple teaspoons to a tablespoon with 6-8oz of water for the a very effective dose.
Just on that. Call me a freak lol but I use my instants a bit unorthodox.

I weigh 5 to 6 grams usually, into a small sherry type glass.

Add minimal water, like 30 ml maybe. Stir up, until all sediment is dissolved.

Like a thick slurry, which I neck back like a shot.

I always get surprisingly strong and "instant" effects from instants.

I really don't feel more water is necessary, for full effects. By judgement. Nice, little, spontaneous, powerful shots.

I may require some more Instant soon, shooting a local Birdie a wire possibly....(spoiler)
 

AlexisReal

Kava Enthusiast
Personally I find heavy Fijian kavas the most sedative although any heavy kava should do the trick. With repeated use you should see quite a difference. Try Hiwa from GHK or Superior Fijian from Root of Happiness, both pretty reliable for me. I've slept up to 12 hours on a strong session but I average a good solid 8 hours a night when I'm drinking a good heavy kava. Sometimes something will wake me up, maybe even just to use the toilet, but it doesn't take long and I'm back to sleep. Magic stuff.
People have reported the more recent Borogoru from KS being particularly helpful for their sleep.

The Fijians- I'm currently thinking- yes the Koro is stronger, so deeply comforting, relaxing.

But to me possibly, the Kadavu is slightly sleepier.
Those views may change though...
 
A

AniemDariel

Clonazepam can definitely be a tough one to taper off of, but it's good that your doctor is helping you with that. I've never tried kava myself, but I've heard mixed things about it too. Some people swear by it for better sleep, while others say it actually keeps them up more. It seems like it might be a bit hit or miss. For some tips for better sleep, have you tried setting a consistent sleep schedule? Going to bed and waking up at the same time every day can help regulate your body's internal clock. And try to avoid screens for at least an hour before bedtime - the blue light can mess with your sleep cycle.
 
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