New kavas on the way and some interesting reviews...

[Edward]

I have some very interesting kavas on the way including some non nobles which I will be reviewing openly and honestly. I'm looking forward to trying the PNG Isa. My understanding is that Vanuatu have banned the export of non noble kavas but no such restriction is placed on PNG so I see no problem with reviewing it and reporting on it as I find it. I'm not going to get into all the politics behind this as it just doesn't interest me, I'm more looking to provide interesting reviews of the kavas that I am choosing to buy and try.

 

[Deleted User01]

As part of the "Nobel Youth", I will say that no one has any problems with experienced kava drinkers drinking Tudei in the privacy of their home and for whatever purpose. The danger is in serving it to minors or newbies in Kava Bars, having them picked up for DUI (or them getting sick in public), and then having the leading PTA Mom in that city waging a campaign against Kava. (As if kava is worse than alcohol and drugs). I think it is safe to say that you are neither a minor or a Newbie and we always look forward to your entertaining and informative Kava reviews.
P.S. I have gulped a few cups of Koniak (PNG) in the past and I didn't die or puke but it was just a tad too much for me the next day. And so I made a decision based on my own need (the ability to pop out of bed at 5am and be immediately productive).

 

[Edward]

As part of the "Nobel Youth", I will say that no one has any problems with experienced kava drinkers drinking Tudei in the privacy of their home and for whatever purpose. The danger is in serving it to minors or newbies in Kava Bars, having them picked up for DUI (or them getting sick in public), and then having the leading PTA Mom in that city waging a campaign against Kava. (As if kava is worse than alcohol and drugs). I think it is safe to say that you are neither a minor or a Newbie and we always look forward to your entertaining and informative Kava reviews.
P.S. I have gulped a few cups of Koniak (PNG) in the past and I didn't die or puke but it was just a tad too much for me the next day. And so I made a decision based on my own need (the ability to pop out of bed at 5am and be immediately productive).

That's fair enough but I think a lot of this is dosage dependent. We are all peeved when we find out someone has been selling noble kava that's less than noble but when it's explicitly labelled as non noble then I think it's less of an issue in my mind at least.

 

[Deleted User01]

I totally agree, truth in labeling has been a problem in the past. However, now that the consumer is more educated (thanks to the efforts of TK), I have seen less and less of kava being mislabeled. And I hope you address the dosage issue when you do your review. Maybe you can do a tad too much on the weekend and give us your take on after morning effects. Like I said, you are an experienced Kava drinker and we are looking forward to your reviews. Oh, and don't forget to do a disclaimer that goes something like this, "I am an experienced kava drinker so kiddies … don't do this at home".

 

[recentreturn]

Looking forward to the review! I don't see anything wrong with reviewing a Tudei. (Frankly, I'd be fascinated to see a review of Wichmanii; for the sake of "science." But I wouldn't encourage someone to drink it for that sake. But if you know anyone who has drank Wichmanii, I'd love to read a post-hoc review.) I very much enjoyed Kavassuer's reviews of some Tudei kavas (I enjoyed all his reviews). Would love to see your review too.

 

[SelfBiasResistor]

Most of these ISA cultivars are pretty forgiving if the doses aren't really high. The side effect of taking too much is needing to sleep longer the next day. I personally feel like it is best used in a blend to enhance the strength (sedation) of weaker nobles, which was common practice in the past and there wasn't fear, people giving up kava because it was too strong, liver failures, etc.

I totally agree, truth in labeling has been a problem in the past. However, now that the consumer is more educated (thanks to the efforts of TK), I have seen less and less of kava being mislabeled.

I know this forum has become a sort of "safe space" for TK members to say anything with little to no challenging but there are some issues here. I recently browsed the reddit kava sub (rarely use reddit for anything since it's generally a bad place for research) and it's clear that the efforts of TK have caused a lot of misinformation to spread. There is a general idea that certain kava (or kava in general) is risky and known to cause liver failure. Some people literally being afraid of rapid liver failure if they drink non noble or a noble/tudei blend (like many of us have in the past and enjoyed). In one case, a poster thought his kava was spiked with a dangerous drug since he actually felt it working rather than the "subtle effects" he read about from users on that forum (says a lot about the low potency of those products). This is a very dangerous trend for the legal future of kava and has created a new generation of misinformed kava drinkers and potentially politicians looking for the next dangerous substance to ban. There have been a lot of myths about the differences between noble and non noble, primarily pushed by a couple of TK vendors who's businesses revolve around selling noble only. Another good example is noble doesn't cause nausea but tudei does.

 

[The Kap'n]

Most of these ISA cultivars are pretty forgiving if the doses aren't really high. The side effect of taking too much is needing to sleep longer the next day. I personally feel like it is best used in a blend to enhance the strength (sedation) of weaker nobles, which was common practice in the past and there wasn't fear, people giving up kava because it was too strong, liver failures, etc.



I know this forum has become a sort of "safe space" for TK members to say anything with little to no challenging but there are some issues here. I recently browsed the reddit kava sub (rarely use reddit for anything since it's generally a bad place for research) and it's clear that the efforts of TK have caused a lot of misinformation to spread. There is a general idea that certain kava (or kava in general) is risky and known to cause liver failure. Some people literally being afraid of rapid liver failure if they drink non noble or a noble/tudei blend (like many of us have in the past and enjoyed). In one case, a poster thought his kava was spiked with a dangerous drug since he actually felt it working rather than the "subtle effects" he read about from users on that forum (says a lot about the low potency of those products). This is a very dangerous trend for the legal future of kava and has created a new generation of misinformed kava drinkers and potentially politicians looking for the next dangerous substance to ban. There have been a lot of myths about the differences between noble and non noble, primarily pushed by a couple of TK vendors who's businesses revolve around selling noble only. Another good example is noble doesn't cause nausea but tudei does.

Maybe they just need to hear it from the right voice. Please voice your concerns. I know how it appears, but I am doing everything that I can to remain neutral in terms of a forum admin and the space we provide here. We absolutely need opposing thoughts. Also, I do my best to answer questions over on reddit too. While yes, there are some people there with some of the old notions of liver toxicity and such but they by and large tend to be extreme newbies who are just starting with kava. Could use help there too. This entire venture has been a community project. We need everyone’s voice.

 

[Edward]

As I said at the start I don't want to go over the politics of it again, I'm just drinking what's available and giving an honest opinion of it.

 

[Edward]

I believe that you are keeping the platform open to all opinions and I'm glad for that. It just seems like people who disagree with or question the movement rarely challenge or post anymore. That reddit sub on the other hand... I don't know how you could look at it and not think there is collusion with a certain group of vendors (only one of the A grade vendors is not a TK vendor). Maybe there was a lot of extreme newbie activity but even one of the mods was advising someone that tudei and extracts "significantly" increase your chance of liver damage. Neither have been proven dangerous and statements like that imply that even noble may carry risks. It was obvious he was directing the poster away from a specific vendor but it wasn't a responsible way to do it. Especially considering just about every time someone reported a side effect, people were guessing it was tudei -- until the poster mentioned they were drinking KWK, BKH, etc. Anyway, I wanted to point out the confusion caused when you get much of your support by scaring the masses or by vendors making statements that aren't accurate in order to increase their sales or reduce a competitors.

@Edward Sorry to derail and I look forward to the reviews

No worries.

 

[The Kap'n]

Same @Edward don’t mean to contribute to derailment. I also look forward to your review. My last interaction with Tudei was wholly negative, but that was a long long time ago and I have to take into account that I was toss and washing micronized which probably put me a few tiers up in terms of side effects. My suggestion would be to not go ham on it multiple days in a row. Your skin will thank you.

I feel like sometimes the responses on reddit feel like they’re ours from a few years ago. There’s a disconnect somewhere. Collusion on reddit I honestly can’t speak to. If it’s really happening it’s happening beyond my view. What I can speak to is the integrity here, and that nobody can pay for favor or influence.

The Tudei movement is not 100% a product of true kava. I feel like the current narrative is attempting to paint the picture as if that is the case. True kava emerged out of a community concern related to the quality of the kava that we ourselves were drinking. Almost everyone on KF was involved when it was coming together. Lol, if you need any evidence to the contrary of collusion, true kava operated their own kava forum in opposition to ours for some time. It’s not something we like to talk about, but you can look back over time and see the ebb and flow of misunderstandings between us. To say we’ve been in cahoots the entire time is, in a word, laughable. This is not pointing fingers. I just feel like it should be said.

 

[Edward]

Same @Edward don’t mean to contribute to derailment. I also look forward to your review. My last interaction with Tudei was wholly negative, but that was a long long time ago and I have to take into account that I was toss and washing micronized which probably put me a few tiers up in terms of side effects. My suggestion would be to not go ham on it multiple days in a row. Your skin will thank you.

I feel like sometimes the responses on reddit feel like they’re ours from a few years ago. There’s a disconnect somewhere. Collusion on reddit I honestly can’t speak to. If it’s really happening it’s happening beyond my view. What I can speak to is the integrity here, and that nobody can pay for favor or influence.

The Tudei movement is not 100% a product of true kava. I feel like the current narrative is attempting to paint the picture as if that is the case. True kava emerged out of a community concern related to the quality of the kava that we ourselves were drinking. Almost everyone on KF was involved when it was coming together. Lol, if you need any evidence to the contrary of collusion, true kava operated their own kava forum in opposition to ours for some time. It’s not something we like to talk about, but you can look back over time and see the ebb and flow of misunderstands between us. To say we’ve been in cahoots the entire time is, in a word, laughable. This is not pointing fingers. I just feel like it should be said.

My position on tudei has always been that I just don't want to wake up the next day and feel too ill to work. If I've bought a kava that is labelled as noble and it turns out to be all tudei or even 50% and I was ill the following morning I would be extremely pissed off. This hasn't happened yet but at least part of that has to be because of the testing and the work done by True Kava and others. It's always been about fairness in labelling for me. I've got PNG Isa coming and also Kava.com tudei, explicitly labelled as such. Whether I will like them or not I don't know until I try them. In any event I can't see myself being a heavy drinker of this type of kava because I can find what I need from noble kavas so why take the risk that the FKB in SOME non noble kavas is harmful? At least when I get these bags of kava and drink them I am going in with my eyes wide open knowing exactly what I am drinking and can moderate my dose accordingly.

 

[recentreturn]

As I said at the start I don't want to go over the politics of it again, I'm just drinking what's available and giving an honest opinion of it.

Well, turns out the dynamite was sweating nitroglycerine. I guess a dude named Nobel did invent it.
Anyway, I understand if you might not feel like it at the moment; but I am still looking forward to the reviews.

 

[Blinkyrocket]

My position on tudei has always been that I just don't want to wake up the next day and feel too ill to work. If I've bought a kava that is labelled as noble and it turns out to be all tudei or even 50% and I was ill the following morning I would be extremely pissed off. This hasn't happened yet but at least part of that has to be because of the testing and the work done by True Kava and others. It's always been about fairness in labelling for me. I've got PNG Isa coming and also Kava.com tudei, explicitly labelled as such. Whether I will like them or not I don't know until I try them. In any event I can't see myself being a heavy drinker of this type of kava because I can find what I need from noble kavas so why take the risk that the FKB in SOME non noble kavas is harmful? At least when I get these bags of kava and drink them I am going in with my eyes wide open knowing exactly what I am drinking and can moderate my dose accordingly.

You know, it's quite tragic that Flavokavain/Flavokawain B is hepatotoxic because every where else I look, I see that it's also anti-cancer. Oh well, it's possible that we could all just start taking N-AcetylCysteine if/when we drink Tudei. I think that actually would work if everyone knew about it. It's not particularly a drug, but it is used by doctors to save people with acute acetaminophen-induced liver failure. Acetaminophen is a b*tch on the liver, so N-AcetylCysteine has got to have some amazing protective effects. I just put that asterisk there just in case it's generally frowned upon to curse here.

I will say, for anyone who might consider taking N-AcetylCysteine as a supplement, only get the pure powder from Bulk Supplements. There's something in every other brand's capsule version that causes severe throat pain, kinda like acid reflux pain even though I've (likely) never felt that before.

 

[Edward]

You know, it's quite tragic that Flavokavain/Flavokawain B is hepatotoxic because every where else I look, I see that it's also anti-cancer. Oh well, it's possible that we could all just start taking N-AcetylCysteine if/when we drink Tudei. I think that actually would work if everyone knew about it. It's not particularly a drug, but it is used by doctors to save people with acute acetaminophen-induced liver failure. Acetaminophen is a b*tch on the liver, so N-AcetylCysteine has got to have some amazing protective effects. I just put that asterisk there just in case it's generally frowned upon to curse here.

I will say, for anyone who might consider taking N-AcetylCysteine as a supplement, only get the pure powder from Bulk Supplements. There's something in every other brand's capsule version that causes severe throat pain, kinda like acid reflux pain even though I've (likely) never felt that before.

Is is hepatoxic? Nobody knows for sure yet so once a week consumption might be ok no?

 

[Blinkyrocket]

Is is hepatoxic? Nobody knows for sure yet so once a week consumption might be ok no?

I believe one study concluded that the amount of Flavokavain B in Kava is nowhere near hepatotoxic levels, compared to Flavokavain B on its own*. So, there's likely no problem with drinking Kava that has higher than normal levels of Flavokavain B. In that same study, it was concluded that a constituent of the aerial parts of Kava was responsible for real world liver toxicity.
I guess N-AcetylCysteine isn't particularly necessary for normal Kava drinking. I was basically recommending N-AcetylCysteine for anybody who's as neurotic, as I am, about these types of things.

In this study: https://www.fasebj.org/doi/abs/10.1096/fj.10-163311
It says that restoring reduced Glutathione mediated antioxidation prevents Flavokavain B's liver toxic effects. N-AcetylCysteine works to increase the liver's supply of reduced Glutathione.

*I don't really know whether or not the study, that concluded Flavokavain B levels were too low for harm, controlled for whether or not the Kava was Tudei or Noble, though.