What's new

New US reseller

mos3z

Kava Enthusiast
ALright guys, I just got my shipment from the North Carolina kava bar called vanuatukavbar.com and the kavas are from vanuatu kava store.I'm still excited as i havent tried their kava before. And this is good news for everyone who was having shipping problems with vanuatu kava store.On top of that the shipping was free, i assume that is US only but not sure.
I got some melakula magic and tanna marang,the melakula is supposed to be the strongest for body but I am going to try the tanna marang first, it looks incredible.It looks similar to the old boroguru grind, and smells crazy piney like boroguru or chiefs junglei'll post pics in a minute
 

Andrew Procyk

Noble Kava
Kava Vendor
We greatly appreciate it!  I think I received an email from you about the forum, but was out of town, and can finally get onto here.
 I'm Andrew - and I'd like to introduce myself, and the Asheville bar and wholesale distro endeavour to you, and the folks on here.  We have been the US distro guys for VKS for over 4 years now, supplying some kava bars exclusively, and have had a kava bar ourselves in Asheville for 3 years - so we are not "new" per se - just new to the forums and a stronger online presence.
I'm a sociologist whose experience with kava began while teaching Drugs and Society classes at FAU, and the reader's digest version so as not to bore you:  I learned about it academically, tried it out of fascination, and the love affair took off.  In a short while, I transitioned from lecturing and researching about drugs to importing kava.  Presently, I am working with the folks at VKS to enhance quality control in order to be the standard for good tasting and potent kava, as well as expand the kava economy into outer islands and villages that may to too distant/isolated from the expot hubs of Vila and Santo to have taken advantage of the kava market. Additionally, we are looking to increase the number of value-added kava product exports from Vanuatu, as that is something that really puts a significant amount more capital into Vanuatu's microeconomy. (So check out our new water-based, water-soluble resin product!)
There have been changes afoot at VKS for a while, and all future shipments we get should reflect a huge majority of the planned implementations - and we hope you notice them!  One of the most noticeable should be that we will soon offer all of our cultivars in multiple (likely 3) different mills - as more than lactone content, surface area to volume ratios can effect the potency of a squeeze; however, some people think fine-grind is too muddy and kava-gut inducing, and other think coarse grind too "weak" and wasteful... we will have everyone covered, and the in-between!  We also secure a Certificate of Analysis with every shipment now, so we know the lactone content, profile, and of course chemotype of every kava harvest we get.
In addition to getting our full bar-site cranking online, and more products onto it, we have a host of other informative stuff we look forward to putting up soon - so please keep your eyes open for kavabardirectory.com to find out where you can go to relax for a shell all across America.  And please look for our Youtube channel for a series of informative videos. (Many are already done - we just have to do the edits and the posting!)
Thanks again!  We hope to now be active members of this, and other online communities, and look forward to staging a major giveaway on here soon.  Cheers!
Andrew ProcykKava Terra LLC
 

Ed!

Kava Enthusiast
Very cool. Sounds like you're on the ball over there. I love the kava bar directory idea. I could see that hooking in really well with the kava bar accreditation idea that TylerKTB posted up a month or so back.
 

hyperdown

Kava Curious
Andrew, I live in Asheville and have been to the kava bar there many times. The new location is much better, congrats on that. I would recommend, however, that you guys stop selling K@. The association of kava with K@ may be troublesome in the future.
 

krunkedout

Kava Lover
hyperdown said:
Andrew, I live in Asheville and have been to the kava bar there many times. The new location is much better, congrats on that. I would recommend, however, that you guys stop selling K@. The association of kava with K@ may be troublesome in the future.
aye, what he said. The government isn't too fond of K@, and there could come a day when it's guilt by association. Which is really sad because I don't believe in any plants being made illegal or being banned.
 

Andrew Procyk

Noble Kava
Kava Vendor
Well, thanks for the thoughts folks - looks like there is plenty to address.
First of all, I talked to Tyler very recently about the association, as a kava bar I supply called me, and pointed out that there was a proposed association online.  I am a member of a loose one several kava bars have going called NAKAMAL - The North American Kava Merchant Advocacy League.  We are conscious of the issues and happy to see that there is other advocacy going on for the root.  As internet sellers and wholesalers, we (Kava Terra) relocated from FL when opening our retail location, in part, because of the "kava drama" that the bars and scene there are known for.  When there was a recent article published in a Florida paper conflating kava and K@, and demonizing the root, I was on a teleconference with folks from Vanuatu's Board of Trade and kava exporters there, along with the Daily Post in the room, to provide a perspective from the US about the situation.  Please see: 
http://www.dailypost.vu/content/kava-exporters-worried-over-misleading-story-us-paper
http://www.dailypost.vu/content/while-legaldoctors-counselors-police-cite-concerns-about-effects-kava-K@
So, hopefully, as you can see, I have long been involved in the fight to protect kava and particularly to keep K@ conceptually separate from kava on behalf of my own kava bar and interests and several other kava bars.  Again, we are stoked there is other activism going on, and it would likely be best to find common groud among associations and combine them - we have have a potential overlapping member as it is -  so that efforts are not duplicated.  Regardless, as both Tyler's and my associations purport that K@ should not be sold as a drink, we would not run afoul as we only sell it as a POS (To-go) item - nothing at all like the FL bars which serve "brew" and kava with added K@ extract, unlabeled.  Despite having no problems whatsoever with K@, I do believe that it does have its place, and (like bright lights) changes the atmosphere of a kava bar when taken therein. The police station is but a 1/2 block away from us, and we have friendly chats with them and offer them shells regularly.  I have no concerns about the way I am selling and marketing K@ having a negative effecting on the image of kava.  Anyway, I did not WANT to have a conversation about K@ after my first post - but these kids of conversations keep things clear and upfront. 
Cheers!  Look forward to being in touch again soon,
Andrew
 

The Kap'n

The Groggy Kaptain (40g)
KavaForums Founder
I think the more we as consumers are made aware that the sellers of kava and K@ are aware of the issues at hand (and I think we'd be ignorant to think they wouldn't) the more reassured we are about kavas future. At least this applies to me. It helps me breath easier to know those providers are on key with what's going on. It really does help when business owners will extend themselves to the customers at this level of honesty. As in these forums.



Thank you! And welcome to the forum. The more people we have here who are willing to share the goings on in the real life kava world the more connected and more in tune we feel with it as well.
 

mos3z

Kava Enthusiast
Hey PapaKava,

Thanks for joining the forum.

I am very interested in any chemotypes you have of your kavas, we are trying to make a library of chemotypes

Do you have any information that you could post?


Thanks
 

Ed!

Kava Enthusiast
Don't feel bad, we gave TylerKTB a much harder time for his first posts. It turns out he's a super-sharp guy and a huge advocate for keeping kava in a good light. It sounds like you're much the same.
We just like to put new vendors through the gauntlet to make sure they're aight. (Wink02)
 

Andrew Procyk

Noble Kava
Kava Vendor
Well, it is good to know there are some defenders of the grog on here to the point of being paranoid of long-term sellers! (Sadly, in this industry, right now, people should be.) I am definitely in it for the long haul, and we have some great relationships I would not dare think of disrupting over quick cash for "legal highs."


Nonetheless: mos3z Who is the database for? I don't have the numbers offhand, but the cultivar names I've got:


Kaolik/Karolek/Ahouia

Marang-Marang

Borogu

Boroguru (I understand same as borogu, but grown in a slightly different region, thus having a slightly different lactone profile)

Pia (occasionally)

Melo Melo


Generally, we can get the same ones that those supplied by Frank King/Kava House can get, and a couple in addition. Some I did not list, as it takes a bit of notice sometimes because many are not grown en mass - but I'll keep the updates on it. I can get the numbers as soon as I dig up the list and recent C of A's.


Thanks again everyone. I do want to ask - I'm wondering how someone can start a new topic on the start page - any tips? (I feel left out not having our own forum!) And how brazen can I get with specials and giving stuff away without running afoul on here. ;-) Just checking.


Cheers,

AP
 

mos3z

Kava Enthusiast
HI Papakava,


We started putting together a kava wiki and have a small list of chemotypes on there. So far Bula Kava House in Portland is the only one we have chemotypes for.

There has been a lot of discussion on here from people interested in knowing chemotypes, some are just curious but sometimes we come across a kava that behaves differently than any we've had before so its nice to see the chemotype so we can understand the effects


Here is a link to our wiki http://kavaforums.com/wiki/index.php?title=Chemotype

It was just started a few weeks ago.


regarding posts, you can't create a new subforum on the front page, only the moderator can, if you become active enough on here then it might be possible to get your own, but I would say for now just post in the Vanuatu Kava Store category, there isnt anyone from their company representing on there, or post in the kavalounge category, that is the busiest category and everyone reads that one.
 

Andrew Procyk

Noble Kava
Kava Vendor
Hmmm. A worthy project, but where/how
did you get the numbers in the wiki, just a self-report? I don't want to seem nitpicky straight away, because before I even took a position on
these forums I was held with suspicion. Familiarity with people
always breeds trust, and that is something I haven't got here just yet,  so saying something controversial would be risky.  Again, this
(like the K@) was brought up to me, so I will address it as
directly as possible...
So, Borogu is a not a chemotype that begins with "2." (And I understand borogoru, depending on the "type" of borogoru, should present similarly as well. A couple source locations claim different medicinal borogorus, which gets to ANOTHER list I hope to post soon - as complete a list of cultivars as I can determine:  noble, two-day, and wild.)    I cannot write/opine on legitimacy of Tongan chemotypes, as my intimate familiarity
with distribution does not really extend beyond Vanuatu's borders at
present, but the numbers appear that of a noble. 
In every HPLC or NIRS result I have ever seen, consumptive Borogu tissue (stumps/roots) is a 4235xx. It is
a noble cultivar, and they are recognized by their high K (4), which
is often 50% or more greater than DHK (2) in Borogu. Different
tissues of the plant will present with slightly varying chemotypes.
When you get into the basal stems of the plants, you can get a high
DHM reading for a noble variety, but that is not the case in Borogu
root tissue, which will always be highest in kavain. In the 2008 the Journal of Agriculture
and Food Chemistry Vol. 56, #13, an article was published by Lasme,
Davrieux, Montet, and Lebot on the quantification of kavalactones. It
specifically dealt with NIRS and HPLC analysis for determining
quality control standards. (I will see if there is a way to get the
whole thing on here, but it is a journal, so copyright may not permit, but ut, with the details, I'm sure someone can find
it on a database online if interested. I only have a physical copy.) It
has a huge list of cultivars and chemotypes from the testing, and is
a good scholarly start for a public database such as the one you are trying
to develop.
From that article:
"Good cultivars used for daily
drinking and those known for their rapid effect, such as Borogu have
chemotypes rich in K (423561, 423651). This can be explained by fast
absorption of kavain, which causes a sudden high, compared to the
much slower absorption of DHK and DHM which frequently produce
nausea... The same is true for a group of cultivars of var.
methysticum famous for their long-lasting effect and called
"two-days", which present chemotype 254631, such as
Palisi... Chemotype is genetically controlled. The chemotype of a
given cultivar is fairly stable as indicated by the different plants
of cultivars Borogu (a noble variety) and Palisi (an illegal variety)
collected from the germplasm collection and from different villages." and, "When the kavain content is higher than that of the five other kavalactones, this is an indication that the powder sample originates from a noble variety."   
So, if you have someone claiming a
chemotype that starts with "2" for Borogu roots, there was
either a mix-up in which cultivar they were reporting the chemotype
for, or they were sold something else and told it was Borogu roots,
but the kava they have is not the kava they think they have.

In my opinion, this should be a matter
of concern, and gets to the beef of the intent of Vanuatu's Kava
Purity Act. It is currently seen as having no solid mechanism of
enforcement, yet stipulates that only noble drinking varieties over 5
years old are to be exported. This is something we are hoping
parliament will pay more attention to in the coming year, as the
importance of kava for Vanuatu's economy is growing. There was some
lip-service paid to it when I was last there during election time –
but we all know how politicians behave.
The good news is, there was recently a
memo that went around from the Dept. of Ag. detailing new procedures
for outbound testing and quality control of kava exports. (I'll see
if I can find and post it, along with posting the chemotypes
determined from the 2008 study that I have on hand, in addition to
those chemotypes of our current kavas.) Nonetheless, many of us are
hoping that it will be a good beginning to a strong set of national
quality-control procedures that will make it impossible for exporters
to circumvent the Kava Purity Act.Well, if you made it this far down - thanks for your time, and pardon the long-winded nature of the response, as well as any typos that may have crept in.  I'd edit, but have a couple things to tend to this evening, so I gotta post an offer of ours in the lounge after I eat this nearly ready dinner, and head out.  Busy day today, but kava time SOON.  Cheers! Thanks again!
~AP
 

mos3z

Kava Enthusiast
Hey Papa,


These numbers were taken from Bula Kava House website. Judd the owner is an avid poster on here and we all fully trust him in this community. His kava is one of the most respected kavas of our members. That said, I dont know much about chemotypes, perhaps its a different strain that he calls borogu or perhaps it was a misprint. I will see if he has any more info on this. Thanks for taking the time to explain what you are thinking, dont worry that you are new here, we are all open to discussion.
 

mos3z

Kava Enthusiast
Hey Papa,

before contacting Judd I just looked it up in Lebots book, it looks like these are normal chemotypes for these types of kava. Page 221 lists borogu as 246531 and borogoru as 245613

I can also attest that their borogoru is one of the strongest dhk available, i highly recommend it
 

JonT

Kava Enthusiast
Anyone know if these guys do international shipping? I've not had a great experience with Vanuatu Kava Store online and would prefer to not use them again. But my understanding is that VKS = The Kava Emporium in Port Vila, which is a decent shop run by nice people. I don't know why VKS seems so messed up.
 

Andrew Procyk

Noble Kava
Kava Vendor
Hey, someone knows about the Emporium! Cheers! Yes, we are largely involved with those guys. Wanted to respond quickly to the comments - but it is LATE, so I'll be brief, and have more later.


Vorticity -


First of all, let me apologize for any web issues. We had a system for a while where orders ran through the VKS site, but given the time (and day) difference, we did not get them until the next day, or later on weekends. We have largely moved/are moving away from that system and reworking the functioning of both sites now (US, and Intl) We absolutely do international shipping, and if you email or call us, we will get you the details. Soon both sites should be running like tops.


mos3z -


Coincidentally, I was on with Lebot today! Seems the solvent used in an HPLC may effect the results slightly, but as long as the K/4 is high, all is good. If there is a 2/4 transposition, it is not a huge deal, but where/from what tissue of the plant the sample was obtained is also crucial. I'll see if I can hit Judd up over the weekend. But now: I'll avoid being long-winded. I will not get enough sleep if I am, and I have an appointment with a spine specialist tomorrow AM. (Grumble! And people wonder why I drink so much kava! Well... there's one reason.) ;-)


Talk to you again soon,

Thanks! Alez!


AP
 

kl.Cocos kava

Kava Curious
Papa kava, you say you taught at FAU? Which kava bars did you frequent before moving to ashville to open you store and what kava drama did you notice?
 

Andrew Procyk

Noble Kava
Kava Vendor
What bars and what drama? Hmmm.... Where to start and how to be tactful...   ;-)
At one time or another, I visited every one of them, and try to hit most of them whenever I go back down.  (I happen to be going next weekend.)  I do not want to get into specifics of who-and-where, but it seems most kava bar owners in SFL have some bone to pick with some other kava bar owner or another.  There is of course the biggest issue, the K@/no-K@ split. Generally, I try to drink primarily at the no-K@-drink bars.
Otherwise, because the whole kava bar phenomenon is relatively new, yet they are clustered there, there is a sense of some folks clawing at others with the desire to be the "big man." (Or just acting like crabs in a bucket.)  I like to think in a new industry, the more that people generally learn about kava, the better it is for all involved. The idea that "a rising tide lifts all ships" seems like it should apply, but many other folks think and behave differently, despite outwardly preaching the same idea.  It is is not just south Florida though - it goes on all over the place. South Florida just has the biggest cluster, hence the most drama.  The general business world itself contributes to a cut-throat behavior ethos in some people, particularly in those with a sense of entitlement. Couple that with a situation involving a new and small but potentially lucrative industry - and it can bring out the worst in people. 
Everyone down there knows about the situation where one bar opened 2 blocks from an existing one.  I'm aware of a couple other "drama" situations, one where a fellow was putting up a new bar and another guy tried to snatch the lease out from under him - after the signing.  In another situation, one owner shared a bunch of tips and supply info with another guy who just opened, who in turn used that information to try and undermine his supply relationship and poach clients. (After using some of his suggestions on his bar's menu for Chrissake!)  
Anyway - I generally try to stay on good speaking terms with most people - even if I disagree with the way they sell K@, which I personally think that is the issue down there that causes the greatest drama, and has the potential to screw up the kava bar biz.  But at the same time, I also think that we should engage people with different approaches as constructively and productively as possible.  Hope that says enough without saying anything.
Cheers!~AP
 
Top