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Predictions about the future of kava

Hi, everyone - I have lurked around here and not posted much, but I am really interested in kava and kava culture even though I have very limited experience at this point. 

It seems to me like kava may well be this great secret that has the potential to explode in popularity, yet it also seems like the authorities may or may not allow that to happen. 

So I'm curious to hear people's predictions about where kava is headed in our culture (and by our, I mean globally, though I'm an American for what it's worth). 

Will kava continue to become more popular as word of mouth spreads?

Will the barriers to entry in familiarity, taste, reverse tolerance, turn too many people off?

Will authorities either do to corrupt relationships w/ drug companies or more sensible but still misguided fears over the downer drinks decide to make kava difficult or impossible to get in places like the US, EU, Australia, Canada, etc...?

Will more and more kava bars or nakamals pop up in these places?

Another way of summing up what I'm asking here is "What will the state of kava be in ten years?  In 20 years?"

Thanks
 

Vekta

Notorious Lightweight
Review Maestro
Who knows.



Kava still has a stigma attached to it because of the bans that used to be in place in most of the western world. It has become more popular but it's still relatively low-key. It could go in a few different ways and we're certainly at a fork in the road right now.



The problem is kava is a direct threat to many drug company's bottom line. I think kava really can help a lot of people that would otherwise have to shell out for scary prescription drugs. No country that I'm currently aware of has a tax on kava. As far as I know the medicinal use of kava in modern medicine dried up for the most part back when medical science labeled kava a hepatotoxic. If kava becomes really popular you could have drug companies jump in and try to turn a profit off kava which was part of the original problem leading up to the bans.



On the other hand communities like this one, of vendors and kava drinkers, may start to rise all over and really speak out with an educated and culturally sensitive voice about what kava is. I think we all show our respect for the drink by being mindful of where it came from, what it was used for and how it was meant to be consumed. With some luck and effort on our parts I think kava has a chance to beat the odds that are still pretty stacked against it.
 

kl.Kava

Kava Curious
How is reverse-tolerance a turn-off?



And yeah, if Kava becomes illegal in the states, I will abandon all hope for humanity.
 

kavalover

Outsider
Kava said:
How is reverse-tolerance a turn-off?



And yeah, if Kava becomes illegal in the states, I will abandon all hope for humanity.
because our modern western population is built around shortened attention spans

people will try kava, not like the taste, not get any effects, and declare it useless - that's the problem with people and kava.
 

kl.KarmaG

Kava Enthusiast
Exactly! We westerners have a culture of instant gratification. Reverse tolerance doesn't fit this and is, in my opinion, one of the best things kava has going for it to keep it out of the mainstream and hopefully away from further scrutiny. That and the taste!
 

kl.new2kava

Kava Enthusiast
I feel that kava's reverse tolerance is one of it's most beneficial points in terms of remaining off the radar. As a point of reference kava is listed on the DEA's website under the drugs and chemicals of concern along with salvia and K@.



(from DEA website)

Illicit Uses:



Information on the illicit use of kava in the U.S. is anecdotal. Based on information on the Internet, kava is being used recreationally to relax the body and achieve a mild euphoria. It is typically consumed as a beverage made from dried kava root powder, flavored and unflavored powdered extracts, and liquid extract dissolved in pure grain alcohol and vegetable glycerin. Individuals may consume 25 grams of kavalactones, which is about 125 times the daily dose in kava dietary supplements. (smiley: sick)



Intoxicated individuals typically have sensible thought processes and comprehensive conversations, but have difficulty coordinating movement and often fall asleep. Kava users do not exhibit the generalized confusion and delirium that occurs with high levels of alcohol intoxication. While kava alone does not produce the motor and cognitive impairments caused by alcohol, kava does potentiate both the perceived and measured impairment produced by alcohol.



The American Association of Poison Control Centers reported 52 case mentions, 29 single exposures, and no deaths associated with kava in 2008.



User Population:



Information on user population in the U.S. is very limited. In the 1980s, kava was introduced to Australian Aboriginal communities where it quickly became a drug of abuse. It has become a serious social problem in regions of Northern Australia.



Distribution:



Kava is widely available on the Internet. Some websites promoting and selling kava products also sell other uncontrolled psychoactive products such as Salvia divinorum and K@. Several kava bars and lounges in the U.S. sell kava drinks.



The National Forensic Laboratory Information System (NFLIS) and the System to Retrieve Information from Drug Evidence (STRIDE) do not indicate any kava seizures.

(http://www.deadiversion.u.../drugs_concern/kava.htm)



It is fairly obvious that the feds are way off on their depiction of kava, 25grams of kavalactones in one sitting that would be at least 50$ a session and totally wastefull and likely just cause puking and long periods of sleep. I think the main thing kava has going for it is that the first dosage does little if anything and it takes at least a few weeks if not a month of fairly regular kava comsumption to bypass the reverse tolerance and enjoy the effects. The primary natural plants that are being targeted as "legal highs" are ones that act strongly on the first time user and have no reverse tolerance but also have very potent alkaloids that can be extracted and made into very strong extracts that can be used at very low dosages. Kava extracts can only reach a certain level and still several grams of the 85% pure kavalactones is needed for effects, so there will never be 100x kava that will blow people away at a fraction of a gram as many of the other plants coming under media and legal scutinty are. Also kava is not used a psychadelic or to achieve opiate like effects therefore it does not pose the same abuse index as other herbs under pressure. The reverse tolerance is the last straw as it is something that will never be made into some extract and sold in head shops that leads to a lot of bad publicity and legal action. Kava being a mild sedative that takes a period of reverse tolerance building seems like it should remain legal as it is something that is impossible to overdose and die from and has a very limited abuse potential.
 

kavalover

Outsider
25 grams of kavalactones? That's a lot of friggin kava. lol.



But oh I agree, I think enough people would try it and say "it doesn't work" - and therefore it won't be taken seriously at all in the media spotlight. But that's just my opinion, and it would be better to ask people like Judd who own kava bars and see this kind of thing daily.



The main worry I see is the fabrication or distortion of evidence in order to ruin kava's reputation in the media spotlight, as happened in the early 2000s, which was obviously a ploy to get this new effective "anti-anxiety" off the shelves. It's the same reason for marijuana's illegality in this day and age, because it WORKS for the things it says it works for. What company wants that? Our population is sick and these corporations make money on treating a sick population, not curing them. If an herbal explodes in the public eye and the wrong people (as in, not the FDA or big pharma) are making money off of it, you can bet that new "studies" will come out to give it a bad name.



Sorry if it sounds conspiracy - ish but you have to admit that is how things seem to work in the pharmaceutical enterprise. The DEA and FDA are just legal arms that do the bidding for a profit. That is what separates them from people like erowid.org - where one wants to show the bad side and the other wants to show the good and the bad. You can tell which one cares about the free use of drugs in self medication.



I really hope that more kava bars open up, so that the public opinion stays positive on kava. That way, if anything happened to kava in any media spotlight, we'd have a good amount of people in the US at least to stand up against that.
 

Vekta

Notorious Lightweight
Review Maestro
Lets see a single shell of kava will have an ammount of Kavalactones in a range between 150-500 mg...
That's, lets see...
.15-.5 grams?
25 grams....25,000 mg right?(smiley: eek) What wild kava party did they bust up?(smiley: laugh)
 
Kavalover - I definitely share some of your worries about people who would have an interest in trying to shut down kava in order to protect other interests. But I can also see an optimistic angle. I really do believe that medical marijuana will become legal everywhere eventually if not pot in general. I also think that the younger generation is very hands-off when it comes to the government and substances. But it's interesting to think about how it might be in the best interest of current kava lovers (heh) to keep it from becoming too popular and thus having a light shined on it more brightly.
 

kl.homobonobo

Kava Curious
Will the barriers to entry in familiarity, taste, reverse tolerance, turn too many people off?

I think this is right on the money. Most everyone I've shared kava with couldn't get past the taste long enough to develop reverse tolerance, and thus didn't get enough of a reward to keep going. I also find the fact that I need to take it on an empty stomach fairly annoying, so there has been many a night where I chose alcohol instead when hanging out with friends (I never take both the same night), plus there's the fact that it's just easier to buy a beer when you're out as opposed to lugging around your own brew or a tin of instant to a friend's house or a bar. Alas, I have no Nakamal around here.
 

Dan

Kava Enthusiast
homobonobo said:
Will the barriers to entry in familiarity, taste, reverse tolerance, turn too many people off?

I think this is right on the money. Most everyone I've shared kava with couldn't get past the taste long enough to develop reverse tolerance, and thus didn't get enough of a reward to keep going. I also find the fact that I need to take it on an empty stomach fairly annoying, so there has been many a night where I chose alcohol instead when hanging out with friends (I never take both the same night), plus there's the fact that it's just easier to buy a beer when you're out as opposed to lugging around your own brew or a tin of instant to a friend's house or a bar. Alas, I have no Nakamal around here.
Yep.  Not too mention it is time-consuming and messy to prepare. 

There really are no shortcuts with kava.  (No disrespect to purveyors of instant kava meant by that - I've tried two now: N@H and BKH's.  Instant's great in a pinch but it'll just never be the same as root-prepared.)
 

Steve

Ozia - KavaKava Candy
Kava Vendor
Anecdotal results from kava's long history is undeniable.  Cultural and political uses of kava also extend far into Oceanic history as well as the simple trade of kava between communities and countries.  With the PR nightmare that happened in 2001, it may take a while to overcome the tilted education of kava safety, efficacy, and use into the mainstream. 

It will be up to all of us to do our part - to name a few from the manufacturing side / supply side:
1) Growers sell only good nobel kava - many farmers are desperate to make some cash so they keep the family good stuff when they can sell the overgrowing bad stuff.  I have heard horror stories from locals (in vanuatu)  watching kava be spun in dirty cement trucks on side of the road and using junk kava - selling it as nobel.
2) Manufacturers must produce good products using only nobel (no leaves or stems); no mixing with 2nd rate chemotypes and trying to hide varietals when HPLC analysis (or other tests comes up) - this happens in literally every crop type product (ie. wheat, corn, etc)
3) source documentation for both growers and manufacturers and Cert. of Analysis
4) create wide range of products - but promotion of kava products for everyone is a must.  Thus, I will promote other vendors if I like their kava and service....we don't have the luxury of being petty (in my opinion).  There will be a big market of kava for everyone if we work together for a common cause.

Meetings in Vanuatu already this year looking at supply side and studies wrapping up in Germany soon - good things happening and going in the right direction.
 

Paradise Kava

Honolulu, HI
Kava Vendor
Warning. LONG Post ahead....



Kava's future is very close to my heart, so I have a lot to say.



Firstly, It's amazing how many people on this forum are right on target about kava's barriers to entry and it's exaggerated consumption numbers according to the DEA.



In the 90's our friends were the largest growers and suppliers of kava in Hawaii back in the hey days when kava was a 2 Billion dollar a year industry.



A prediction of Kava's future is that we have our work cut out based on what happened to this giant industry.



Imagine the horror of having 80 acres of planted kava and having to turn them into the ground with your tractor because the world stopped consuming kava within days when the bust happened. It was the sudden death of an entire industry. I know this because I purchased some of the machines from that colossal operation, fixed them up, got them back into shape, and grew kava in the exact same spot as that comapany. We even took over their warehouse, the exact spot where they processed kava. To give you an idea, they supplied Merck 2 containers of kava Powder worth $60k per container, EACH month, in the 90's!



Most people have no idea of how successful kava was in France, Germany and parts of Europe



Try going to pubmed.gov and type in kava and watch the incredible amount of clinical research which pops up.



Or go to the US patent office and look for kava patents and you'll be amazed that even L'oreal has patents on kava for hair products, along with so many other companies who were gearing up for Kava's Global explosion in 2003.



My friend, who had the 80 acres was already en route to planting another 400 acres.



Why?



Because there are stories of French companies who were buying entire "Islands Worth" of kava. The story goes that when those companies started getting desperate they started buying aerial parts to be made into extracts (with alcohol mostly).



The locals simply did not understand why people would buy waste.



As we all know, the result was disastrous.



Without any prediction, or warnings, they took kava out of the world market in a heartbeat. There is a "follow the money" theory as well, one which says that big pharma could not control this ancient "traditional" root's rise in popularity (although they did manage to make synthetic kava.)



So ,coming back to the thread's topic, what can we predict?



I can honestly say, all we can do is aspire. Aspire to create purity in kava products and never dance with those things which will lead to another kava bust or deter kava from climbing out of it's dubious reputation.



Adil's personal example to illustrate this point.



- - I'll never forget sitting in front of the Liquor Commision of Hawaii, sweating, as 14 people grilled me (think of those Gangster movies where guys with RICO charges are being bombarded with questions from all sides about their money laundering efforts).

"Why do you want the alcohol permit? Where will you store it? Draw us a picture of the warehouse where it will be stored" etc etc etc!

And sure enough, because I wanted to make the most awesome Grain Alcohol Kava Root Tincture on the planet, I was able to convince them because my research showed that Hawaiian Kava made an awesome tincture. And we had all kinds of strengths at the office back then (2006-2007).



So, Liquor License in pocket, big smile on my face, I set out to make a ton of extract because I knew that the Head buyer at Whole Foods and mostly ANY Health Food store would carry something that is already sold in their aisles. (note - Our solvent Free Kava extract is looked upon with "huh? - just a paste, no pill? - Under the tongue, what?" by the stores who I have approached. No one carries it yet.)



Then, my buddy Ed Johnston, who wrote the Hawaiian 'Awa book with Jerry Konanui (both these men are legends in my eyes) shared a research paper which proved (to a lesser degree) the inherent dangers of alcohol extraction where kava was concerned. Alcohol was extracting the kavalactones just fine, but also pulling out the alkaloids, like FlavoKavain B, a real liver cell killer.



*Sigh*



So much work to develop the right strength of our new tincture which was definitely stronger than anything in the market, passing the "RICO" committee's anxiousness about giving me a liquor permit, and this being the FIRST project I ever undertook; failure was a hard pill to swallow.



Yes, it was failure because I literally flushed all the versions of the tincture down the toilet.

I was not about to market any version of kava which was damaging.

Kava needed a push up in the right direction, not someone to keep bringing it down.



Truth is, you'll still find many people making alcohol tinctures and people love them because they are used to them.



A new clinical paper is due to be released soon by Chenggou Xing of the University of Minnesota. He was awarded a $500,000 Grant to research kava by the National Institute of Health. I believe this was the first time the HIH ever awarded kava research money. You have to remember that the FDA just put out a flash warning after the Germany incident in 2002. A warning which is still outdated but necessary because as Steve put it, the new Vanuatu Conference is still working with guidelines for kava production and export. SO it's the wild wild west where kava is concerned.



Andway Chengguo and his team's research shows that solvent based extracts are indeed, harmful.



I know this because we were approached to supply some of the kava and our extract for his research about two years ago.



So my prediction is that kava is going to get much bigger BUT with this growth comes a responsibility.



Personally, I have always felt an ethical obligation to the farmers who perfected kava over 3000 years. Remember, there is no seed, no flowers. Only people drinking a somatically mutated strain (a green stemmed plant sometimes popped up a single black stem, which when planted gives you a black stemmed awa plant with a possibly altered kavalactone profile)

Imagine that!



But for kava vendors in general, there is a responsibility to the public. TO their health and safety.



People who buy kava are stressed and daring.



They are brave because society at large does not exactly encourage kava use under it's umbrella. There's a FDA warning out on it for God's sake.



SO good for you, for taking a chance, keeping an open dialogue about kava going, and researching it for yourself. In the end, it's your education about kava, which ones are safe, and which aren't, which will determine what you purchase, and eventually this will lead to what producers put into the market place.



That's my prediction.



Adil Ghiasi's 2 cents~
 

Vekta

Notorious Lightweight
Review Maestro
Long post, yes. But that was worth far more than two cents. That right there, I believe, makes this post sticky worthy just so we can track this over the years.



Maybe in some small way the global kava Apocalypse was a half blessing. Yeah, it sucks and hearing about that 80 acres getting disked under...o0o0 that made my eye twitch...



One way we can see this is a chance to bring kava into the mainstream the right way. It's going to happen eventually but hopefully we have enough breathing room to really get it going in the right direction. Hopefully that momentum keeps traveling and Kava doesn't suffer another global apocalypse.
 

Steve

Ozia - KavaKava Candy
Kava Vendor
One of the biggest problem for all of us (even some of us being scientists -I am not :) Is whether to look into one study and take it at face value.   Unfortunately, the public has taken headlines at face value and come to the conclusion that kava is unsafe as a whole.

For example, lets take alcohol extractions for example.  True that a study said that pulling out
the alkaloids, like FlavoKavain B (which is determined to damage the liver) can be a potential problem when using ethanol to extract.  Likewise, there have been some studies pointing out the potential of liver damage from *aqueous* "water" extraction if the plant material is not good.

Via Mathias Schmidt who one of the leading scientists (working on the Germany side) points out that "Consequently, this is most likely not a function of the extraction
solvent, but rather of the choice of an appropriate cultivar. This also
explains why liver toxicity has not conclusively been demonstrated with extract
manufactured with ethanol. Oh yes, there are cases, but only a single one which
is sufficiently well documented to draw the conclusion of causality – and this
case was a case of immunotoxicity, not plain liver toxicity.  And, by the way:
It is not true that liver toxicity has never been observed with aqueous kava
preparations. There were cases in New Caledonia, but: according to our
background investigations the kava material in these cases came from Vanuatu
and most likely was Palisi! Thus, kava drinkers are not protected from
potential liver toxicity even when using the aqueous preparation, if the
starting material is bad."

I don't want to pettifog the issue but it is funny how the kava community as a whole has been cornered into this tight box so that we have to look at literally 3 or 4 cases of liver toxicity and try to defend this great plant.  To put things in perspective, we know that alcohol can cause liver
disease and lead to Cirrhosis – primarily in heavy drinkers. We also
know that Acetaminophen (in over 100 common products), according to the
American Association of Poison Control Centers, is the most common
pharmaceutical agent involved in overdoses due to hepatic (liver)
failure.  Yet - we as a society really don't think twice about taking an Tylenol and going to bed :)
 
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