Question to all members regarding new forum idea.

[The Kap'n]

I propose this idea to the members here, and also to Doug seeing as this is specifically his creation. After reading the post by Adil about the future of Kava I believe we need to have a forum which is fully featured, and moderated. I have gone ahead and purchased the website www.kavaforums.com and at the moment it points here to these boards. (I know hawaiiankavacenter's board was kavaforum.org but if you've gone there lately you'll find they no longer exist)  I say we create a vBulletin board fully hosted and moderated by users here at this board. Of course leaving full control to Doug, as it is ideally his creation. I just know it's probably a bit difficult being a farmer in southern Africa and also trying to police a web forum. I know I, and quite a few other people here have the time and willingness. 
I'm willing to up the costs of hosting and forum creation software, vBulletin. I've been tinkering around in their demo forum and I'm reasonably confident I can craft a forum out of it. Also up for any help from anyone with experience in webdesign or forum design. Administrator accounts would be given to anyone willing to help. Of course when it is all said and done those chosen to moderate will retain moderator accounts and Doug will have the ultimate say so in what goes on.
Think of it is an ultimate sharing project. I believe kava's future rests in our hands I wanted to offer my part up.
Let me know what you think! Seriously everyone is welcome in on this.

 

[Paradise Kava]

Pending what Doug thinks, I think it's a great idea!

Let us know how we can help.

cheers!

A.G

 

[krunkedout]

This is a great idea, I mean really great. This is exactly what people need to see so that they know that us kavasseurs are not a bunch of druggies looking for some legal high. This could help people see history behind kava and help them to understand its effects fully.

 

[kl.Gray Owl]

I've got mixed feelings about moderated forums. The guidelines should be very simple and clear and not open to broad interpretation.

 

[Vekta]

Gray Owl brings up a good point.



Another thing about that is we'll probably get a lot more trolls when the forum is easier to find.

 

[The Kap'n]

I've got mixed feelings about moderated forums. The guidelines should be very simple and clear and not open to broad interpretation.

Definitely! Which is why I need everyone's ideas. There certainly needs to be clear and succinct guidelines. What do you think we should specify in a set of guidelines?

Gray Owl brings up a good point. 

Another thing about that is we'll probably get a lot more trolls when the forum is easier to find.

If you type in "Kava Forums" on google, this board is #1. Unfortunately trolls will be part of the process solely due to the nature of the internet. With a forum the members moderate we will be able to weed out some of those... to a point. Trolls can spur some lively debates.

Did I mention there's a "like" function in vBulletin?

 

[kl.new2kava]

I think trolls tend to exist more when controversial topics are discussed or tend to be people with severe emotional problems and possibly on some type of aggression enhancing substance. It seems the major "harm reduction (lol)" sites really seem to be a hotspot for trolls, I imagine that is because a good chunk of their user population are ploysubstance abusers who are unstable and agitated. I really don't think that kava needs to be tackled from the harm reduction standpoint because it is not a harmful or dangerous substance. By opening up the floodgates and welcoming in the "harm reduction" crowd we're basically just going to get limitless threads about: K@, bath salts, K2/spice and whatever research chemicals are trending.



Personally I like having a small and chill forum to go to and never worry about being trolled or "called out" where we can just discuss kava. I can't express my joy that during the election or the countless media hot topics that became bitterly divisive that there has never been a single thread on here about politics or high profile criminal cases that are centers of controversy. The fact that this is just a simple kavaforum is the reason I keep coming back. If it goes viral and the "harm reduction" crowd gets and there and starts trolling and talking about crazy K@/kava rectal use combos and blasting some bath salts to boot (as they will), I'll pretty much just peace out.



I'm not trying to be negative and I congratulate your zeal. I may just be too paranoid from some of the other forums I have witnessed and just fear that kavalounge has defied the forum odds and remained a peacefull and respectfull board focused on a single topic. I'm just afraid that if the equation was tweaked then the shift would occur where we would become just another harm reduction board. Go to mycotopia, they were once a board that discussed one single entheogenic topic and got to big and now there are mad trolls and constant talks about shooting dope.



The fact that moderators will have to exist implies the expectation of trolls and topics being discussed against policy. We never really have that problem here, every now then something non kava will come up but I have yet to be flamed. I think kavalounge is the best forum I've ever stumbled across and if it the spirit could continue it would be great but if it failed it would be horrible.



My final fear is more of a desire to keep kava on the down low. Personally I like that fact that most people think kava is bunk and is just a placebo. I think if more people got into the scene and kava began to trend it would be disatrous for the scene, the vendors would raking in cash untill the ban hammer started coming down. I'm afraid that with too much advertisment that kava would become too high profile and become the next media fear mongering topic and be added to the legal high list. I'd rather that kava remain amongst the mature rootheads than become the new K@.....

 

[Ed!]

Guideline #1: Only pacifist Libertarians can be moderators.



I'm all for a more full-functioning community-driven board. I certainly wouldn't want to rip anything out of Doug's hands though, which sounds like the general sentiment. I know if I were him I'd be pretty tentative about it given the ways that it could go wrong.



I'm a User Experience professional with some visual design skill from a previous life. I would be happy to contribute whatever I can to the look and feel of a new forum.

 

[Ed!]

Haha, I love how I unwittingly posted something with a political reference immediately after new2kava praised us for not getting political. Oh deary me.

 

[Prince Philip]

I want to say something really quick about the K-Word that keeps popping up. I also don't want to say anything, because I've never tried it.



I discovered that Vicodin puts me in a very good mood. It relieves not only pain, but also stress and anxiety. When I ran out, I looked at possible herbal substitutes. Now, when I Bing for "herbal Vicodin," K@ comes up pretty much right away. Kava? Maybe, but I'm not seeing it prominently on the first page. Kava, though, has what I'm looking for.



It's a bit like the Queen's weight issue. When she was on Zelnorm, she dropped a ton of weight. Zelnorm was pulled from the market due to stroke issues, but is still available for dire-need cases. When we asked the endocrinologist what was going on, he suggested it worked because it was a 4-HT5 agonist. When I've mentioned the effect to the Life Extension Foundation Health Advisors, they suggest natural remedies for IBS, but that's not what we're looking for. The Vicodin/K@/Kava thing is almost the opposite. With Vicodin's calming, relaxing effects, the natural place to look for an analog would be another opiate, like K@, but what I actually need is a calming, relaxing beverage with analgesic properties.



For the record, I've never gotten high off of Vicodin. I seem to be incapable of doing so. The one time it was depicted in House, though, it appeared to be very close to being kava-krunk.



What I am suggesting is that if people want Vicodin-but-not-Vicodin or K@-but-not-K@, then we should let them find kava.

 

[Ed!]

I personally feel that kava is the "cure" to alcohol abuse too (in some cases anyway, there are obviously different types of abuse for different reasons). As much as I would fear the ban hammer, I want to see more people with struggles finding kava. I think it would have societal benefits.



I also kinda doubt that it would end up getting banned as we watch Marijuana becoming legalized. My real fear would be death by taxes. Either way I'm already preparing to grow kava in my basement in case of zombie apocalypse.

 

[The Kap'n]

New2kava: I completely agree with your stance on the state of things now as they are. I love this board. We rarely talk about anything other than kava, and there are few instances of spam. However, we only have 320 members. My thought is that keeping things straight as the board gains popularity and members will only become more difficult for the only person who has the ability to do anything if things went terribly awry. It's a fine balancing act because right now we moderate ourselves. All it takes is one new member to make us all wish there were someone monitoring the board regularly. I'll show my purist thoughts here, but I was thinking we should add a "no other substances" rule. I'm familiar with bluelight/drug forum and how "harm reduction" can be a cluster of mixed intentions which turns out to be forum of trading substances instead of trading information. I do feel like this forum would continue in its current direction, but I'm no mystic so all I'm proposing is that we be ready for whatever is in our future.



Ed: If this community gives the go-ahead I'll be calling on you for help. I'm holding off purchasing vBulletin before we hash this out, as it's $250.

 

[krunkedout]

New2kava: I completely agree with your stance on the state of things now as they are. I love this board. We rarely talk about anything other than kava, and there are few instances of spam. However, we only have 320 members. My thought is that keeping things straight as the board gains popularity and members will only become more difficult for the only person who has the ability to do anything if things went terribly awry. It's a fine balancing act because right now we moderate ourselves. All it takes is one new member to make us all wish there were someone monitoring the board regularly. I'll show my purist thoughts here, but I was thinking we should add a "no other substances" rule. I'm familiar with bluelight/drug forum and how "harm reduction" can be a cluster of mixed intentions which turns out to be forum of trading substances instead of trading information. I do feel like this forum would continue in its current direction, but I'm no mystic so all I'm proposing is that we be ready for whatever is in our future.



Ed: If this community gives the go-ahead I'll be calling on you for help. I'm holding off purchasing vBulletin before we hash this out, as it's $250.

I agree with this. I don't want this turning into a blue light or a shroomery board.

 

[Steve]

It would second Doug's feedback as he has done such a great job creating this forum.  Regarding kava becoming "big" and the hammer coming down...the hammer has already come down.  Vendors and economies in the South Pacific that depend on kava have shriveled substantially since 2001.  With more people discussing kava and debunking past media, kava can have a strong future for everyone

 

[krunkedout]

It would second Doug's feedback as he has done such a great job creating this forum.  Regarding kava becoming "big" and the hammer coming down...the hammer has already come down.  Vendors and economies in the South Pacific that depend on kava have shriveled substantially since 2001.  With more people discussing kava and debunking past media, kava can have a strong future for everyone

we havnt felt the full blow of the hammer. The reason kava is still legal is BECAUSE of the lies the FDA spread about liver failure. After that people got scared and stopped using kava and went back to prescriptions like Xanax, which made the pharma happy. If everybody all of a sudden knew that the FDA lied to them and started using kava and stopping prescriptions then te pharma would get pissed. And when the pharma gets pissed, they talk to the FDA and get them pissed. And when the FDA gets pissed they bribe political lobbiests. And when they get bribed, they go to Capitol hill and open their loud mouths, and when that happens, bans are put into place. The. The pharma are happy because everyone is takin their drugs. And when bans are put into place and the pharma are happy, I am unhappy. And when I am unhappy, global genocide begins to take place. So you see, kava is sitting on a slippery slope. The reason it is still legal is because the pharma and FDA were successful in scarring off people from using it. As much as I hate the lies about it, it is protein it in a way. If everyone started looking past that and using kava more, the pharma revenues would drop dramatically, which would cause the snowball effect that I just illustrated. Unfortunately their is no way other than staying relatively small in numbers. I do however, support this forum idea, not because I want to spread kava anywhere and everywhere, but because there needs to be a kava thread that is ONLY for kava, and isn't full of a bunch of idiots who talk about rectal administration of shampoo and whatever else they can fit up there. That way, when big brother comes to check in, all he sees is some kind folks who arent looking for a quick and easy legal high, he will see some people who are simply enjoying another culture.

 

[uuku pi]

It would second Doug's feedback as he has done such a great job creating this forum.  Regarding kava becoming "big" and the hammer coming down...the hammer has already come down.  Vendors and economies in the South Pacific that depend on kava have shriveled substantially since 2001.  With more people discussing kava and debunking past media, kava can have a strong future for everyone

we havnt felt the full blow of the hammer. The reason kava is still legal is BECAUSE of the lies the FDA spread about liver failure. After that people got scared and stopped using kava and went back to prescriptions like Xanax, which made the pharma happy. If everybody all of a sudden knew that the FDA lied to them and started using kava and stopping prescriptions then te pharma would get pissed. And when the pharma gets pissed, they talk to the FDA and get them pissed. And when the FDA gets pissed they bribe political lobbiests. And when they get bribed, they go to Capitol hill and open their loud mouths, and when that happens, bans are put into place. The. The pharma are happy because everyone is takin their drugs. And when bans are put into place and the pharma are happy, I am unhappy. And when I am unhappy, global genocide begins to take place. So you see, kava is sitting on a slippery slope. The reason it is still legal is because the pharma and FDA were successful in scarring off people from using it. As much as I hate the lies about it, it is protein it in a way. If everyone started looking past that and using kava more, the pharma revenues would drop dramatically, which would cause the snowball effect that I just illustrated. Unfortunately their is no way other than staying relatively small in numbers. I do however, support this forum idea, not because I want to spread kava anywhere and everywhere, but because there needs to be a kava thread that is ONLY for kava, and isn't full of a bunch of idiots who talk about rectal administration of shampoo and whatever else they can fit up there. That way, when big brother comes to check in, all he sees is some kind folks who arent looking for a quick and easy legal high, he will see some people who are simply enjoying another culture.

I was born and raised in Washington DC,this as you have described is exactly the way our government functions.  Everything is about money and greed. Pills are easier,Kava is not for lazy people. It makes a mess and can cause you problems,but it is worth it to me and other intelligent people.  I do not know what you all mean by a troll but I know it must be something that would interrupt my learning about Kava. If they make it illegal I will become a person who is willing to go to extraordinary  efforts and travel great distances to get it back to US. It is my only medicine now. I am not learned enough about computers and forums to really understand what you are talking about. However I am learning more everyday and hope to be able to help in any way I can. I got rid of all television in order to concentrate on the computer and will try hard to learn more so I can be of some help in this great good thing for world peace:KAVA

 

[Ed!]

A troll is basically a person who enjoys upsetting/offending people. Most communities on the Internet are full of trolls. They'll act obnoxious and disruptive in order to get a reaction. Part of what makes this little community so amazing is the shockingly good-natured personality of pretty much every one here. No one is "trolling" for a reaction.



I think it goes beyond that though, because my past forum experiences have been full of dillweed moderators too. The supposed good guys. People who get snotty about questions being answered more than once and generally make the forum an intolerable place to LEARN. We answer the same questions repeatedly here, and it's always friendly. If we lose that it would be an utter shame.



When you get down to it, it's those uptight dillweeds who attract the trolls, and the trolls who bring out more uptight dillweeds. That's what motivated my comment about pacifist libertarians... moderators need to be pretty laid back, unintrusive, like Doug has been, or that kind of culture builds up.

 

[kl.new2kava]

I have noticed alot of mods are total douches at harm reduction sites and political discussion boards. In fact in many cases, moderators are the worst trolls out there. It's basically like a liscence to troll. I gave up on those types of boards long ago as I don't go online to engage in flame wars or get all butthurt. Thats what caught me about this place. I heard about kava and started googling it and bl and df came up and was like "fuck those guys" and saw kavalounge and checked it out. I was astounded at how respectful and informative the people were here and I followed the same advice I now give to n00bs and found kava to be awesome. I can't imagine what type of horrible person would show up to troll here, but most trolls are career trolls and have been banned from every board on the net. They may see kavalounge as ripe for the taking, hopefully not.

 

[uuku pi]

I am now hysterical , I do not think I have laughed so much in a long time. Thank you for your explanation, douche ,with other adjectives is one of my favorite words. So trolls are douches. They direct their misery with a long tube at everyone. Kavalounge is the only forum I belong to. I ask lots of questions and sometimes as I go over past threads I see others have asked similar questions. Uptight dillweeds is a very good way of describing intolerance. Everyone must begin their journey somewhere and you have been so kind to me. Maybe someday I will help someone down the line. Karma-like When people do not want to help noobs ,or think our questions are stupid(they may well be) they would not really be kava people. Kava seems to increase empathy. I hope the trolls leave us alone

 

[Paradise Kava]

I'd like to distill some of the great points made.
- Doug, what say you?
- Let's figure out some legally "safe" way to present this forum, disclaimers, etc. Personally think it's important to keep it on the up and up as much as possible.  
- Pacifist Mods. Pretty good idea.
- Trolls can be banned unless they behave.
- No other talk of anything other than Kava, unless made in reference to Kava or somehow trying kava use or NO use to that particular substance. Did I get this right?
- I'd personally like a section where Kava Research is posted since there is some wonderful stuff out there which debunks the liver toxicity thing along with so so much more.
- Kapm, unless you want to pay for it, count us in for whatever amount you wish us to shoulder. Also, I'm pretty sure we can do a fund raiser to get this done RIGHT. Maybe some custom coding to make it look sweeter than the regular V Bulletin. Just a thought. Again, these little things add to the legitimacy of kava when a newbie wanders upon the board.
- Maybe we can have a section where pictures of the various cultivars can be posted. videos etc. Guess that is a much later step.

Please add to this list/ comment on ideas which can use further clear thinking.

- A.G