Kava Research Research Paper for Discussion

[lifechoicekava]

Hi everyone. I am very new here, but in my searching for the best, most thorough Kava forum, I feel confident that I found it here.
I work at a Canadian supplement company, Life Choice. Kava is one of our products--actually, our company was the first to bring it back to the supplement market in Canada. As such, our biggest concern is quality. We care about high quality in all of our products, but Kava is one we feel especially protective about, because we fear that if someone takes a low quality Kava supplement and has some sort of terrible reaction, it could mean the end of Kava's availability in Canada. With that in mind, we wrote a paper highlighting the history, potential health uses, varieties, and quality. Everyone has different opinions on Kava, which is why my CEO asked me to post the paper on some Kava-knowledgeable forums for feedback and discussion. If you'd like to read the paper, a link to it is here. Thanks!

 

[The Kap'n]

Hi welcome to kavaforums!

Just so everyone knows, this user contacted me and asked for permission to post and ask for opinions

 

[Vekta]

Hmm...

I find the comparison to its use being similar to alcohol a bit questionable. I think that is probably far more likely to be the case in western societies rather than native ones. Maybe that's a matter of perspective but I don't see the use as being that similar.

That being said there have been well known instances of Kava being used to curb the consumption of alcohol such as Vanuatu's tax on alcohol in the 1980's. (if I remember correctly)

 

[verticity]

That is a good summary.

I'm curious about the legal situation in Canada regarding extract products vs. root powder. I assume your product is an extract pill, but would it be legal to sell regular powdered kava in Canada? I'm thinking of places like Germany and Australia where that is generally not legal, and where a prescription is needed also-- am I correct that you would not need a prescription in Canada to buy your product?

The paper mentions that noble kava is "GRAS" which is not true in the US, despite being a grandfathered supplement here. Does that refer to the Canadian definition of GRAS?

 

[Groggy]

Hi there and welcome to kf. I think the paper is quite thorough and I believe your company seems to have the right goal(s) in mind. I am somewhat skeptical when it comes to kava supplements not because of the efficacy but rather the amount that is needed to achieve similar results as drinking the powdered root.

I much prefer to drink the dry root, from any vendor listed on this forum, specially since I've gotten to know most of them and trust their sources. I also think that it is more cost effective way to drink kava.

I am curious as to how your company extracts the kava, I noticed your company sells what appears to be a tincture and the capsules. What kind of extraction method do you use?

 

[lifechoicekava]

That is a good summary.

I'm curious about the legal situation in Canada regarding extract products vs. root powder. I assume your product is an extract pill, but would it be legal to sell regular powdered kava in Canada? I'm thinking of places like Germany and Australia where that is generally not legal, and where a prescription is needed also-- am I correct that you would not need a prescription in Canada to buy your product?

The paper mentions that noble kava is "GRAS" which is not true in the US, despite being a grandfathered supplement here. Does that refer to the Canadian definition of GRAS?

In Canada, Kava powders unfortunately aren't allowed; it has to be in a dosage-specific form only. Hopefully that helps.

 

[lifechoicekava]

Hi there and welcome to kf. I think the paper is quite thorough and I believe your company seems to have the right goal(s) in mind. I am somewhat skeptical when it comes to kava supplements not because of the efficacy but rather the amount that is needed to achieve similar results as drinking the powdered root.

I much prefer to drink the dry root, from any vendor listed on this forum, specially since I've gotten to know most of them and trust their sources. I also think that it is more cost effective way to drink kava.

I am curious as to how your company extracts the kava, I noticed your company sells what appears to be a tincture and the capsules. What kind of extraction method does the company use?

We can't disclose that because it is protected info in our master file. However, I can say that we use the whole root to preserve the 6 kavalactones and produce an extract of potency for encapsulation and our liquid tincture that delivers 120 mg of kavalactones per capsule or dosage indicated on our liquid tincture. We do raw material testing and after product testing to ensure purity.

 

[Groggy]

We can't disclose that because it is protected info in our master file. However, I can say that we use the whole root to preserve the 6 kavalactones and produce an extract of potency for encapsulation and our liquid tincture that delivers 120 mg of kavalactones per capsule or dosage indicated on our liquid tincture. We do raw material testing and after product testing to ensure purity.

Can you say if it is an alcohol extraction?

 

[lifechoicekava]

Can you say if it is an alcohol extraction?

In the case of the tincture, that one is suspended in alcohol.

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

So obvious I almost hesitate to mention, the rhizome or corm is used, of course, called lawena, but so are the lateral roots, the waka. Of course they can be used separately or often mixed together.

And then also, makas has two meanings. It is in the plant the indigestible larger hard interior part of the lateral root. Makas also, more usually, refers to the solid parts that are left after the kava drink has been prepared. Of course, most of the makas are makas, that is, most of what is left as solid waste after the grog has been prepared and strained consists of the hard interior parts of the lateral roots that have been ground small but not to powder.

 

[The Kap'n]

In the case of the tincture, that one is suspended in alcohol.

Do you happen to carry a propylene-glycol or vegetable glycerin formulation for those that may be sensitive to alcohol?

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

Does the extract contain an appropriate amount of glutathione? It's been a while since I've looked into it, but I believe traditional water extracts contain glutathione, a hepatoprotectant, which would likely be responsible(to some unknown degree) for the safety and lack of hepatotoxicity with traditional preparations.

That is not to say any of the 6 major kavalactones are significantly hepatotoxic on their own, they might be, they might not, there is no precedent for habitual intake of pure extracted kavalactones for us to know. But since we know that the traditional water extract is generally safe and not hepatotoxic, and that glutathione might play at least some role, if not even a significant role, in that safety, I'd always recommend that extracts be made with glutathione as an added ingredient.

Perhaps you are using some kind of water extraction technique, in which case, good, but does it extract the same amount of glutathione as a traditional water extract? I think that would be good to know.

But hey, I'm just some dude, I might be off on this.

 

[verticity]

Does the extract contain an appropriate amount of glutathione? It's been a while since I've looked into it, but I believe traditional water extracts contain glutathione, a hepatoprotectant, which would likely be responsible(to some unknown degree) for the safety and lack of hepatotoxicity with traditional preparations.

That is not to say any of the 6 major kavalactones are significantly hepatotoxic on their own, they might be, they might not, there is no precedent for habitual intake of pure extracted kavalactones for us to know. But since we know that the traditional water extract is generally safe and not hepatotoxic, and that glutathione might play at least some role, if not even a significant role, in that safety, I'd always recommend that extracts be made with glutathione as an added ingredient.

Perhaps you are using some kind of water extraction technique, in which case, good, but does it extract the same amount of glutathione as a traditional water extract? I think that would be good to know.

But hey, I'm just some dude, I might be off on this.

Yes I think @Henry was saying that the extract products that are sold in Australia (which has very restrictive rules), are water-based extracts.. Alcohol is certainly capable of extracting the full kavalactone profile, but I think people are naturally interested in what else is extracted--or not extracted--which would depend on whether pure alcohol vs. pure water vs. an alcohol-water mixture is used. Generally the second or third option is preferred (water or alcohol/water) in order to extract both water soluble and non-water soluble chemicals.

 

[verticity]

Very good paper, the only thing I'm seeing there is "root and rhizome" should be mentioned rather than root only.
The kava products on your website make health claims (calmative, sleep aid) and thus cannot be marketed in the USA due to FDA restrictions.
Kavalactones are intrinsically extracted by alcohol, so how can this be a suspension?

That's right, it would be a solution, not a suspension.

 

[lifechoicekava]

Very good paper, the only thing I'm seeing there is "root and rhizome" should be mentioned rather than root only.

The kava products on your website make health claims (calmative, sleep aid) and thus cannot be marketed in the USA due to FDA restrictions.

We are based in Canada, not the US, so our products and current labelling are legal here (through NPN licensing), and we do our best to get strong health claims for each product. But you are correct, the rules are very different in the US, especially with the ability to make health claims.

 

[lifechoicekava]

Do you happen to carry a propylene-glycol or vegetable glycerin formulation for those that may be sensitive to alcohol?

Probably our best recommendation in that case would be the capsules instead of the liquid.

 

[lifechoicekava]

For the glutathione questions, we do see the point and agree, but that is all we are able to say, due to the proprietary protection in our master file.

You guys are asking great questions, though! Part of the reason it's taking me some time to get back on some of these is because I'm having to go back to the formulator to get answers!

 

[Palmetto]

Since I don't have time to look it up, I seem to remember that certain KLs induce depletion of glutathione in the liver. Another issue is the alcohol solubility of flavokavains is relatively higher than water based solutions in the KL:FK ratios. That is worse for most healthy people, but better for people with high cancer risk or actual disease.

Hey, if Canada permits it, you might want to market a capsule high in DHM and flavokavains (especially FKA) derived specifically from a Fijian kava source for cancer patients. Can't make any claim like that in the US for under $50 million dollars worth of preclinical and clinical trials (at best). DHK is also good for cancers, but not as much as DHM. The other kavalactones are probably uninvolved in preventing cancers, except for kavain, which at best is uninvolved, and possibly very slightly unhelpful, unless nonspecific macrophage induction has a useful effect against some cancers.

While I am rambling, why don't you make several different formulations:
1) anticancer: (as stated above)
2) fall on yer arse and go to sleep, but no hangover (high DHK, somewhat high methysticin, moderate kavain & DHM)
3) social / balanced (high kavain, methysticin, DHK; medium Y, DMY; low DHM)
4) pure heady /social: (high kavain, methysticin; moderate Y and DMY; low DHK, DHM)

 

[lifechoicekava]

Since I don't have time to look it up, I seem to remember that certain KLs induce depletion of glutathione in the liver. Another issue is the alcohol solubility of flavokavains is relatively higher than water based solutions in the KL:FK ratios. That is worse for most healthy people, but better for people with high cancer risk or actual disease.

Hey, if Canada permits it, you might want to market a capsule high in DHM and flavokavains (especially FKA) derived specifically from a Fijian kava source for cancer patients. Can't make any claim like that in the US for under $50 million dollars worth of preclinical and clinical trials (at best). DHK is also good for cancers, but not as much as DHM. The other kavalactones are probably uninvolved in preventing cancers, except for kavain, which at best is uninvolved, and possibly very slightly unhelpful, unless nonspecific macrophage induction has a useful effect against some cancers.

While I am rambling, why don't you make several different formulations:
1) anticancer: (as stated above)
2) fall on yer arse and go to sleep, but no hangover (high DHK, somewhat high methysticin, moderate kavain & DHM)
3) social / balanced (high kavain, methysticin, DHK; medium Y, DMY; low DHM)
4) pure heady /social: (high kavain, methysticin; moderate Y and DMY; low DHK, DHM)

Thank you for the suggestion! It would be great if we could branch out our Kava formulations more in the future. Though we can make Health Canada-approved health claims here (at least currently), once you start dropping the "c word" things can get a bit...complicated, to say the least.