Reverse Tolerance: A Different Perspective

[Ed!]

That makes some sense. My reverse tolerance was like a wall, I was getting next to nothing out of kava then suddenly it changed. If it was about my ability to accept the feeling, then that would fit, I figured it out.



At the same time, I don't know if that's totally accurate either. If anything, I was trying too hard to feel it at first. When I did get good effect was when I had pretty much given up, and wasn't following the common best practices (empty stomach, and all that). I wasn't paying any attention at all, and there it was. Maybe part of my learning was that I need to be more meditative about it, clear my head a bit instead of thinking about effect. Let it come to me.



I would suspect that it's a combination of factors, that you're right, but that's not the complete cause.

 

[Prince Philip]

Well, I'm probably the only person who has converted to Cargo Cultism, so, yes, I agree. Kava is a drink one negotiates with.

 

[Vekta]

I agree with you for the most part. It isn't entirely accurate. Then again non of it really is "accurate" when we're talking about its effects from person to person. It varies very widely.



In my opinion, we in the western world think about it far too much. What I mean by that is we're too much into what we expect something to do never mind any cultural significance it might have. I went over this "context of use" in my presentation. You're right Deleted User, we want it to "smack us in the head"...instant gratification. We're not on "island time" to use a term I've heard Adil use a few times.



Then I come across people that see kava as superstitious herbal baloney. Some think (like my sister to a certain extent) I'm just convincing myself that kava works the way it does for me because it's not a synthetic modern drug created by science. I have given kava to people that even after I explained its history and its use still had this kind of "I want it now" instant gratification expectation and were in fact disappointed with kava.



The thing is though, I think it's the other way around. Kava is a "traditional drug" as far as my personal view of it goes. I think we should treat it as a "traditional drug" within the context of it's cultural significance and use. Sure we use it for things that modern drugs are used to treat as a substitute for them in some cases. The culture and traditions behind kava, I think, are apart of the medicine. That's my real point I suppose, kava is much more than just another drug off the pharmacy shelf.

 

[kl.ImSoCold2323]

I agree to a degree.  There's still a lot of "black magic" involved with kava and its effects.  Like there's still a lot to be figured out.
Sometimes it seems like people just need to drink kava for a while to figure out what exactly kava does for them.  Once you know that and appreciate it, then you know what to look for and can feel it stronger.
Or maybe just constantly changing prep methods and strain combination during your "reverse tolerance" stage eventually leads you to the methods/strain that works best for you.  Thus ends you reverse tolerance.
Or maybe your habits slowly change as you spend more time drinking kava.  Less alcohol, less caffeine, longer periods without eating before a session.  And the effects get stronger throughout this time.
Black magic.
Having said all that, I'm leaning toward the common answer that it's a chemical buildup in the system.  It just seems like the most logical answer to me.
Plus, I've had a couple of too-strong sessions that, no matter how hard I tried, there's no way my mind was capable of negating the effects.  So I would think that it is, at least mostly, physical/chemical rather than mental.

 

[krunkedout]

I think it is both. I think it takes time to build up but even after that, people need to listen to the root. If someone is taking kava just to get wasted then there wasting their time. I have had sessions that completely floored me and were stronger than other common, "green" substances. You can't take kava to get wasted. You have to accept the kava and let it creep into your mind while you try to find the beauty that hides in everything.

 

[HerbalDude420]

One must buy quality root, one must have patience, one must know the craft to making good grog, and above all one must relax. Then all of kava's magic will hit you at once.

 

[kl.SunnyHours]

I don't believe it's a "build-up in the system" as the first few times I tried it I had no effects. Then a couple months later I tried what I had left and Bam! I was pleasantly relaxed and happy with myself! I actually found that the "high" of Kava

was more what I was looking for than the Benzos I had been using for a while. It has muscle relaxant proprieties that are quite unbeatable

 

[Prince Philip]

The Wikipedia stub on "Reverse Tolerance" is confusingly useless.



There is a useful page about how it works with alcohol - heavy drinkers damage their liver to the point where it has a hard time breaking down ethanol, so they stay drunker longer. I don't think this is what's happening with kava, but it could be. Another possibility is that kava is somehow upregulating GABA.



This would be a fascinating subject for a study. I guess this is why we need Lebot on board. Maybe he knows how it works.

 

[kavadude]

Hard to imagine kava reverse tolerance is the same as alcohol reverse tolerance. If you had that much liver damage, you'd know.

 

[Vekta]

This is what NDG tried to explain to me about kava and this GABA business...
"The enhanced ligand binding to Gaba-a and the rest is easier to explain. Gaba is the major inhibitory neurotransmitter, drugs that sedate the CNS affect GABA primarily. A ligand is something that binds to a receptor and can either turn it on or off for simplicities sake. Gaba-a is what benzos affect, it is more centrally located causing more reduction in anxiety and brain activity then the other major receptor Gaba-b. Gaba-b is more of a muscle relaxant, although both share that property. So kava appears to enhance the binding of ligands to the receptor increasing it's activity. We use ligands like benzos, but kava enhances the bodies natural binders to create a similar effect. Affinity is the term for the strength of binding capacity, that is valerian is weaker then valium for the gaba-a receptor, or has less affinity for simplicity. You can either increase the strength of attraction of the ligand to the receptor (done various ways) or increase the number of receptors to cause more effect, which thing it's doing I'm unsure."
...(smiley: ohwell)...(smiley: eek)...I know right?
Here is the much shorter version of it...
"It simply increases binding of other things to Gaba, making it more inviting to those ligands meaning less anxiety"
Well, that's how science currently thinks it works anyways...

 

[uuku pi]

I think it is majick..really... I live on a couple of acres ,surrounded by trees and a few plants I have collected.(I mention my surroundings because living in nature makes things maybe easier for me) I believe it installs(kava) a shield in one's thinking that prevents knee jerk reactions. Over the last 6 months I have stopped over-reacting. I still get sad sometimes...but no longer crazy to myself. The most important thing(to me) is to learn who you are and like it. Kava has changed my thinking but I had to learn to be still with it. Reverse tolerance is real(for me big time) but I felt it instantly(kava) ,just differently. just the thoughts of a non-expert