So, whats the consensus on Kavas toxicity to the liver???
- Thread starter Jaynerd
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Traditionally prepared, clean kava of any kind has never caused any reported liver problems in otherwise healthy humans. To ensure safety, kava ingested should be a non-solvent extraction using only the root of the plant. It should be free of mold and microbiological pathogens.
Some experts believe that kavas traditionally classified as 'two-day' could potentially be harmful to the liver, but as far as I know, there are no cases that prove this. Also, classification is a bit hazy making it difficult to say what actually makes kava two-day. The potentially harmful compounds found in higher concentrations in what some would call two-day kavas don't look to be extracted in high enough concentrations to cause any real world harm when making a traditional water extraction.
If you're at all concerned, feel free to play it safe and avoid two-day kava. For me though, there just isn't enough research that leads me to believe that any kava is unsafe for consumption. I drink high quality two-day on occasion, and I feel confident sharing it with loved ones and customers as well. It is worth noting that some two-day kava can cause nausea (as can some noble), and effects lasting longer than many people would prefer. Some are very pleasant though, and do not regularly cause nausea, making them quite desirable to certain drinkers.
In any case, I can guarantee you that alcohol will harm the human liver at an exponentially higher rate.
Some experts believe that kavas traditionally classified as 'two-day' could potentially be harmful to the liver, but as far as I know, there are no cases that prove this. Also, classification is a bit hazy making it difficult to say what actually makes kava two-day. The potentially harmful compounds found in higher concentrations in what some would call two-day kavas don't look to be extracted in high enough concentrations to cause any real world harm when making a traditional water extraction.
If you're at all concerned, feel free to play it safe and avoid two-day kava. For me though, there just isn't enough research that leads me to believe that any kava is unsafe for consumption. I drink high quality two-day on occasion, and I feel confident sharing it with loved ones and customers as well. It is worth noting that some two-day kava can cause nausea (as can some noble), and effects lasting longer than many people would prefer. Some are very pleasant though, and do not regularly cause nausea, making them quite desirable to certain drinkers.
In any case, I can guarantee you that alcohol will harm the human liver at an exponentially higher rate.
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So what is classified as "two day kava"?
That's the problem. There's no specific way to classify them. The only quantifiable measurement is kavalactone chemotype. Any kava showing a chemotype with DHM in one of the first two positions could be considered two-day.
Hmm, then i guess my question is what kavas have been ruled out as not being two day???
Most that are sold readily are noble. The common non-noble kavas sold are Isa, and most PNG varieties. We sell a PNG kava we call Koniak that I do not consider noble, but does not typically exhibit effects common with tudei like nausea, or extreme potency. Therefore I don't consider it tudei either. It's actually the most popular and reordered kava we sell. All other kavas we sell are noble.
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To be 100% accurate, we must acknowledge that there have been cases of liver failure following traditional consumption of kava.
As noted by Teschke et al (2011):
"In 2003, when the Pacific kava paradox was first proposed
[6, 7], the first case reports appeared showing hepatotoxicity
due to kava use prepared traditionally as water
extracts rather than by organic solvents. In two cases from
New Caledonia, severe hepatotoxicity was described following
the use of traditional aqueous extracts derived
from kava imported from Vanuatu [17], with clinical features
akin to those detailed for the corresponding German
and Swiss cases of patients who used acetonic and ethanolic
extracts [13]. Similar reports of single cases came from
other countries [12, 13, 19–21]: Australia [19, 21], the USA
[20, 21] and Germany [12, 13, 21]. In all these reports [12, 13,
19–21], causality for kava has been established by the
structured, quantitative, liver-specific and updated scale of
the Council for International Organizations of Medical Sciences
[10, 11] that was also applied to cases of patients
with liver disease due to acetonic and ethanolic extracts
[12,13].In 2007,the World Health Organization (WHO) kava
hepatotoxicity study listed five cases due to aqueous kava
extracts; three were coded for kava with a causality of possible
and two probable; two were from traditionally prepared
kava [1].The WHO report also referred to other cases
of patients with liver disease, but a relation to the use of
traditional aqueous kava extracts was not established
using the WHO scale [1]. Essentially, the WHO kava report
confirmed that traditional aqueous kava extracts may
exert rare potential hepatotoxicity similar to acetonic and
ethanolic extracts. These observations have cast doubt on
the Pacific kava paradox."
The authors do not distinguish between tudei and noble (at least not in this article), but argue that liver problems may have been caused by mould, poor plant material and other factors. In any case they also highlight that those cases were very rare.
As noted by Teschke et al (2011):
"In 2003, when the Pacific kava paradox was first proposed
[6, 7], the first case reports appeared showing hepatotoxicity
due to kava use prepared traditionally as water
extracts rather than by organic solvents. In two cases from
New Caledonia, severe hepatotoxicity was described following
the use of traditional aqueous extracts derived
from kava imported from Vanuatu [17], with clinical features
akin to those detailed for the corresponding German
and Swiss cases of patients who used acetonic and ethanolic
extracts [13]. Similar reports of single cases came from
other countries [12, 13, 19–21]: Australia [19, 21], the USA
[20, 21] and Germany [12, 13, 21]. In all these reports [12, 13,
19–21], causality for kava has been established by the
structured, quantitative, liver-specific and updated scale of
the Council for International Organizations of Medical Sciences
[10, 11] that was also applied to cases of patients
with liver disease due to acetonic and ethanolic extracts
[12,13].In 2007,the World Health Organization (WHO) kava
hepatotoxicity study listed five cases due to aqueous kava
extracts; three were coded for kava with a causality of possible
and two probable; two were from traditionally prepared
kava [1].The WHO report also referred to other cases
of patients with liver disease, but a relation to the use of
traditional aqueous kava extracts was not established
using the WHO scale [1]. Essentially, the WHO kava report
confirmed that traditional aqueous kava extracts may
exert rare potential hepatotoxicity similar to acetonic and
ethanolic extracts. These observations have cast doubt on
the Pacific kava paradox."
The authors do not distinguish between tudei and noble (at least not in this article), but argue that liver problems may have been caused by mould, poor plant material and other factors. In any case they also highlight that those cases were very rare.
@Deleted User is right though. There is no evidence that noble, 100% pure (i.e. not contaminated) kava can cause any significant adverse health issues. At the same time, there is some evidence than in very rare cases, people have had health problems following regular drinking of large amounts of unidentified kava plants of unknown quality or purity.
It is a bit like saying that alcohol may cause blindness because some people who consumed poor quality moonshine containing methanol got blind.
It is a bit like saying that alcohol may cause blindness because some people who consumed poor quality moonshine containing methanol got blind.
I guess it is safe to say that as long as you are a healthy person and only drink 100% pure, noble and properly processed kavas you should have no reasons to worry as such products have been consumed for thousands of years. If such kava could make people seriously ill, it would have most probably not been considered so sacred and central to pacific islanders' life. It would also not have been considered by them as a powerful medicine.
Steve T
Kava Enthusiast
There are articles that give convincing arguments that kava isn't hepatotoxic. Then there are real results on the forums. It increased my liver enzymes (but I drank 5-8tbsp every single day), along with 2-3 other people. For MANY other people here it didn't affect their enzymes at all. Even if it increases enzymes it doesn't imply permanent damage. If you drink fresh, noble kava prepared traditionally then it's pretty safe. If you feel a problem then you know when to stop. There are a lot of people who have replaced alcohol or benzos with kava, so it's important to keep in mind the many benefits as well.
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I've always thought this is the best analogy. In the UK there are every now and then cases of methanol spiked vodka popping up, with kids getting blinded. Alcohol does not get banned as a result, yet they heap absurd restrictions on kava based on much weaker evidence. Some laws really are not respectable.
Prince Philip
Duke of Edinborogu
I consider ISA to be "fallen gentry." As far as "Tudei" kava goes, it's pretty mild and unassuming. I've never had stomach problems from it, nor have I woken up krunk or hung over regardless of how much I've consumed. I've only woken up krunk from Waeld Koniak (Madang Short, I believe). I don't ever recall waking up hung-over from kava, although I won't rule out a negative interaction between kava and doxylamine succinate. (The latter is an over-the-count antihistamine sometimes sold as a sleep aid).
D
Deleted User01
@rcvjohn , read this article on the German Kava Ban and its reversal.
rcvjohn
Kava Curious
okiedoke
That all depends on which varieties you're drinking. There are some that will cause intense nausea and a hangover. Then there are others that are gentle on the tummy, and are super nice for muscle relaxation. With some, any second day effect is just a mild 'floaty' feeling that is actually pretty pleasant. I've found most Isa to be pretty easy drinking, as @Prince Philip mentioned.