sublingual method

[kl.Vashthestampede]

Hi everyone, first post here but I've been lurking for a few weeks.



I just started using kava recently and I'm really enjoying it, mostly for it's anxiety relieving effects.



I've been messing with different methods of consumption and I've recently started using the Toss'N'Wash to great effect.  I came across a thread on this forum talking about how many people have noticed that Toss'N'Wash may be unsafe compared to the traditional. Some have said that dermopathy is at a higher risk with Toss'N'Wash. 



The past few days I've been trying another variation to try to get the potent effects of Toss'N'Wash without the risks. I noticed that when I hold the dry kava root under my tongue I can feel the effects coming on strongly and quickly. I just take a Tsp. of powdered kava root, and place it in my mouth without water. It's gross and uncomfortable at first but after about a minute my mouth is numb from the kava and I've produced enough saliva to counter the dry mouth feeling. I hold it in my mouth for about 5 minutes or longer and then I either chase it down with a beverage or I simply spit out the kava. I can feel the effects before I've spit out the kava so I'm wondering if maybe holding it sublingualy for a while is enough to absorb most of the kavalactones. I'm thinking sublingual for a while and then spitting might be the best combination to consume safely and efficiently. 



I'd rather just prepare it traditionally every time, but it's just not as cost efficient that way. Toss'N'Wash is great if you're in a hurry but I'm a little worried about the perceived dangers that might come with it. Has anyone else tried sublingual use?

 

[kl.midas]

Hi and welcome. I've tried the sublingual method with root powder before too.



I used my usual dose of 2 tablespoons of powder. It took me about 6 mouthfuls to get through all of it, using a pretty coarse grind powder. I'd shovel as much as I could into my mouth and let it sit under my tongue, after a couple of minutes when the root was soggy and congealed into a ball I would start alternate between chewing and letting it sit under my tongue, for 10 minutes or so. I swallowed the odd bit of fiber here and there (accidentally), but not too much.



The effects were on a par or maybe slightly better than what I'd get from a traditional prep with the same amount of root, but I found it left my gums a bit raw, probably from the friction of chewing on the fibers. Also, it took me quite a while to get through the full 2 tablespoons. I think for that reason I just went back to the traditional prep.

 

[kl.Vashthestampede]

Thanks for the reply.



I've found that a much smaller amount can give a stronger effect sublingually. If you decide to try it again I think you should use slightly less than a teaspoon and let it sit under the tongue until it's all liquid-like except for the bigger root parts that don't dissolve at all. I'm not sure but it feels like to me that kava actually dissolves a little in saliva if you hold it long enough, unlike if you just mix kava with water where it never dissolves at all. I think if you try to take too much sublingual you won't be able to produce enough saliva and it won't dissolve as much.



After just a few teaspoons I feel the same effects that I get from 2 tablespoons made traditionally.

 

[kl.midas]

I must give it another go with your purely sublingual method. What kind of root powder did you use, was it course or fine ground? I'd imagine really fine ground powder might work pretty well.

 

[krunkedout]

Welcome to the forum! You may be on to something here. The enzymes in our saliva may be able to effectively extract a decent amount of kavalactones, allowing them to absorb through the tissues in our mouth. I'm not sure I could ever stop traditional though, I just love sitting down with a coconut shell full of kava! I have dabbled in the toss and wash a little bit because it's more efficient; but I think there could be some dangers, not from the fiber but what what is contained in the fiber that is not normally ingested when a traditional water grog is prepared. But who knows. And I'm not sure if it causes greater dermopathy or not. I have dermopathy and never took a break from drinking kava daily but I guess I don't get it as bad as other folk. Mine is easily controlled with an application of lotion to my arms, face and back.

 

[kl.Vashthestampede]

I've tried it using Boroguru and Fu'u from BKH. I think both are effective but Fu'u is the finer grind of the two and it seems to liquify more. I also have some fijian waka from wakacon. It's pretty coarse and is a little unpleasent for sublingual use so I rarely swallow it at the end.



I only just got the boroguru and the fu'u a couple days ago and so far I haven't ever had just one at a time, so honestly I don't know for sure which is the most effective. I can feel all of them hit me while it's still in my mouth so I know they all work, but I always take one teaspoon of each so I don't really know about the differences between them yet.

 

[kl.Vashthestampede]

I agree, traditional is much more fun/relaxing. I plan to get some coconut shells from BKH on my next order so it'll feel more authentic.

 

[krunkedout]

Shells for me are a must have for any kava drinker

 

[KeepOnKrunkin']

I prefer the sublingual method over the drinking method since only 40% at best is ever absorbed through digestion...the rest is wasted. Extract may indeed by gram for gram alot more expensive but in reality its significantly less expensive since a much, much higher % of kavalactones are delivered directly into the bloodstream sublingually. Seventy-five dollars per month is IMO one helluva bargain when you consider how much kava gives the user. Extract - extract - extract for me.

 

[kl.midas]

KavaKava, which instant do you use? I tried some sublingual administration with the RealKava instant a little earlier. I think the effects were stronger than I get from simply mixing it with water and chugging it down. I'm now wondering if it would be possible to create some kind of pill made entirely of instant that would save me carrying a bag of instant and a spoon around (smiley: smile) I was looking on youtube and found this...
(flash video)
I need to track down some vegetable glycerin and give this a go I think.

 

[Crunked]

I use this glycerine to make sugar-free ice-cream. Feel free to use my coupon code for a discount if you order: 
ETE08
$5 off for purchases under $40, $10 off if the order is over $40.

 

[kavadude]

Brave man. If you really enjoy the sublingual method, you might try Paradise extract. This is something I've considered myself, but never had the stomach for. I think I'll try it soon though since others seem to be getting good results from it.

 

[Paradise Kava]

After trying various possible methods for ingestion, we opted to leave our kava extract in paste form for optimum sublingual delivery. This was decided after ruling out every other option.



Putting it in a cap leads to neutralization thru strong stomach acids. It's still effective, but the product costs customers much more, in terms of grams needed per dose.

To avoid the long way home thru the gastro intestinal system, sublingual delivery was the only option.
aside from vaso dilation, for which we developed our kava salve and of course thru IV which would have been the most efficient method. Avoided this one for now but it may be a possible solution to help those with extreme drug abuse by administering IV kava thru the intense and painful withdrawal stages


Anyway, We developed the extracts by adding specific lipids, thru a tailor made system for the oral mucosa, and specifically the buccal mucosa, the lining inside the mouth, cheeks and under the tongue. It really helps to have friends who work in research labs.



To conclude: ANYTHING you put under the tongue, will be absorbed into the blood stream much faster than thru the complex intestinal system, provided that substance is made in the most bioavailable format for this region of the human body.



Adil Ghiasi

 

[KeepOnKrunkin']

Exactly.

 

[kl.midas]

I use this glycerine to make sugar-free ice-cream. Feel free to use my coupon code for a discount if you order: 
ETE08
$5 off for purchases under $40, $10 off if the order is over $40.

Thanks Cruncked. I wouldn't have thought to try iherb for it. I already have an account so I can't use your code, thanks for the heads up though (smiley: smile)

 

[KavaKrunked]

Good Lord paradisekava! IV administration? I picture someone in a subway tunnel somewhere, shaking, holding a spoon over a candle, and struggling to find a suitable vein to shoot up a dose of ISA.



Soon enough, we will attract the authorities who monitor sites like that particular "drugs" forum where the guy pumped alcohol and kava up his arse and spent the next two days blowing out his intestines.

 

[kavadude]

Sitting here with a tsp of stone under my tongue. It triggered my gag reflex when I put it in But thankfully I can't taste it very much. What brand of Kava are y'all trying with this, and how much do you find you can get in at once? 1 TSP seems like it'd probably be the max for me.

 

[kavadude]

2 tsps of stone, for 5 minutes each and then washed down with some water seemed pretty mild to me.

 

[kl.midas]

Sitting here with a tsp of stone under my tongue. It triggered my gag reflex when I put it in But thankfully I can't taste it very much. What brand of Kava are y'all trying with this, and how much do you find you can get in at once? 1 TSP seems like it'd probably be the max for me.

I did it some time back with melo melo, used my regular dose of 2 tablespoons and got effects slightly stronger than I get from traditional prep. I didn't just let it sit under my tongue though, I alternated between chewing it and letting it sit under my tongue. 1 managed about 1 teaspoon at a time also.



I tried it with some RealKava instant a couple of days ago and again found it slightly more potent than just mixing it with water. It's much easier to do with the instant I think, just because you need to consume much less than with root powder. Also, a mouth full of root fibers is pretty unpleasant compared with some instant powder.

 

[krunkedout]

After trying various possible methods for ingestion, we opted to leave our kava extract in paste form for optimum sublingual delivery. This was decided after ruling out every other option.





Putting it in a cap leads to neutralization thru strong stomach acids. It's still effective, but the product costs customers much more, in terms of grams needed per dose.


To avoid the long way home thru the gastro intestinal system, sublingual delivery was the only option.
aside from vaso dilation, for which we developed our kava salve and of course thru IV which would have been the most efficient method. Avoided this one for now but it may be a possible solution to help those with extreme drug abuse by administering IV kava thru the intense and painful withdrawal stages




Anyway, We developed the extracts by adding specific lipids, thru a tailor made system for the oral mucosa, and specifically the buccal mucosa, the lining inside the mouth, cheeks and under the tongue. It really helps to have friends who work in research labs.





To conclude: ANYTHING you put under the tongue, will be absorbed into the blood stream much faster than thru the complex intestinal system, provided that substance is made in the most bioavailable format for this region of the human body.





Adil Ghiasi

have you guys ever considered kavalactones via inhaler or mist or vapor? A lot of addicts are addicted to not only the drug itself, but the act of using the drug. And even though a lot of addicts at used to the needle, a lot of them are used to using foil and what not, so a breathable form may be a great thing, along with it probably absorbing through the lungs rather well.