Tolerance, addiction and withdrawal

[kl.NDG]

hey guys, im inquiring about any reports of kava addiction, withdrawal or tolerance. Basically looking at the pharmacology of kava it appears to be safe to consume based on it's gabaergic effects being minimal. However, what better place to recieve anecdotal reports on the subject then the biggest forum for this plant on the web.
Question is
does/has anyone here consumed kava daily for any extended period of time (as one would to treat anxiety) and had negative effects, withdrawal or rebound symptoms? My main reason for inquiring is that patients would enjoy using this for its medicinal properties, however, the data is just plain lacking on the problem of addiction, thus while i believe it is safe it is still a grey area.
if you guys could, could you report the type, length or use, amount and effects if any to aid in my research, i would greatly appreciate it. preparation methods or anything you could add that could be of use to me would also be appreciated.
Thanks

 

[starsofclay]

I can say that I drank kava for a month straight when I first discovered it, and noticed absolutely no withdrawal or addiction tendencies. The tolerance is a reverse tolerance, meaning that it becomes less and less tolerant over time. I have also found that to be true, however it does peak out eventually a few weeks in, and stays at the same level of tolerance after that, in my experience.



I don't know if I could help with research, because during this time, I tried many different kavas and switched them up and mixed different ones each day, but they included- Kona Kava Farm kava, Solomons Island kava, Malekulah magic, fiji waka, tongan pride, and a few others that i can't remember, (yes, i went a bit crazy...)



are you thinking about giving this to other people than yourself?

 

[kl.NDG]

yes i am planning on using it medicinally for anxiety conditions as well as adhd as kavain and its NRI activity is similar to atomoxetine. Sorry that didn't clarify your question at all, i will be prescribing it to patients.



I just want to see how long people have consumed kava for and what issues they came across or if any withdrawal was present as that makes prescribing it harder as a proper taper to reduce withdrawal for example is nearly impossible due to differences in plant material.





in this month were you drinking it only in the day, night, both etc? did you notice no trouble sleeping or increase in anxiety when stopping at all? thanks for the reply by the way.

 

[kl.chuckboycejr]

It's not addictive physiologically.
However, it is extremely pleasant and makes you feel good, so in the sense that I love to run and swim because it makes me feel good - I think about kava the same way.
some REALLY strong kavas (e.g. Wow!) give me a rash on my forearms - that's the only negative I have experienced with kava. No rash now with Fu'u.

 

[Vekta]

I used it for anxiety but I haven't had any withdraw or addiction. In fact I'm more free now than I ever was before. I can have a bowl or two of kava and then be fine for the next week or so. I'm not seeking out kava when I don't have it. When I first started drinking kava I had it about every other day. Fast forward to a year later, now I only have it about once a week.



If I stop taking kava I just slowly start to revert back to how I was before I had anything to help control the anxiety. Its not a fun place for me but I can do it if I really have to. Kava has been such a positive influence and doesn't make me want to take more and more of it that I see no reason to be ashamed of it.

 

[kl.NDG]

i honestly have a hard time believing there is no withdrawal based on the actions kava has, however i guess the proofs in the pudding.

 

[starsofclay]

I had a withdrawal from solomon's- it made me feel soul-less for a few days, but that was only unique with solomon's- DO not get tongan pride from kbr for anxiety! NOO. its more uppity. however the tongan from bkh is the opposite.



i agree with chuckboy- kava is not addicting, except in the way that things that make you happy is addicting. like playing zelda.

The rash that he mentioned is a real thing, and the only known side effect of kava, if taken for too long, and doesn't happen to everyone. It clears up in a few days after taking a break from kava.



my suggestion is to get experienced with it for yourself before administering it to others. a great one to start with is tongan fu'u from bula kava house. tastes great

 

[Prince Philip]

I've quit kava for a week or two at a time. It's just not addictive. That being said, I have fiended for kava, especially at the start.



For negative effects, I have had intense anger at buzzkills who want to mess with my experience. The worst was when I was listening to some Hans Zimmer music in a dark room when Queen Elizabeth II decided to make me do tech support. Rebooted the computer (so no more Zimmer) and turned on the overhead lights and forced me to troubleshoot a WACOM tablet... which I don't use and know just about nothing about. I would have beheaded her if this was Tanna, but alas in England she is Monarch until John Frum returns and restores kastom. Why didn't she just call William? Kids are so much better with that stuff.

 

[Sandman]

I know this thread is a bit old, but here are some links I've found - http://www.drugs-forum.co...m/showthread.php?t=29531 has some thoughts.



Here's a more technical thread - http://www.bluelight.ru/v...ava-quot-Withdrawal-quot



I believe the principle of "No Free Lunch" applies here. There are plenty of positive sides to kava use. Do those outweigh the negatives? Your mileage may vary, but there is anecdotal evidence of a limited withdrawal.



People used to say that K@ wasn't addictive, too, but they just hadn't used it long enough to know. Found that one out the hard way....
Just to be clear, this is not to say there's definitely a withdrawal syndrome for kava, or that kava is bad. I really like kava! I do believe firmly in the idea that nothing's free, however, and care should always be exercised.

 

[kl.new2kava]

I have never noticed much in terms of withdrawal symtoms other than kind of being bummed out when I run out of kava, no rebound anxiety or insomnia symtoms or physcial distress. I actually do believe there is a tolerance that builds at least with me. There is alot of truth to the reverse tolerance scenerio but I feel that it is more of an obstacle that one must overcome to achieve maximum effects of kava, the body and brain need to adapt on how to handle kavalactone. I notice that after using kava for a few days in row I can only get mild effects from it no matter how much is drank or how strong the kava is. For that reason I like to session 2 days in a row and take a day or 2 off in between to keep my tolerance down but not allow the reverse tolerance to not fall under threshhold that allows me to fully enjoy kava. I have drank kava for over a month at a time and had steller effects for the first week and after that I think I was just acting out in compulsive behavior desperatly drinking excessive amounts of kava for an effect that wasn't comming on. When I stopped there was no fiending of mood swings I just was a little mopey. I think that phase was until I caught the drift that kava is not a drug and shouldn't be used as such, it is a pleasant treat that must be treated with respect.
I also have been through serious opiate withdrawals as well as benzos and barbituates so the bar is set pretty high for me to feel that something has withdrawal effects.
  

 

[kl.KarmaG]

I will say that in my experience with kava over the past few years, I have found it to be as addicting as cheese. I enjoy it and I may crave it occasionally when I run out, but am I waiting at the deli counter at 5am to get my fix? Absolutely not. I've gone without both on many occasions and have never experienced any ill effects. (**After reconsideration, I may be slightly crankier if I don't have cheese (smiley: wink))
I've read the report on Aboriginal kava use in Australia and am highly skeptical of the government's "protection" of indigenous people. This paragraph sums up my feelings quite nicely:
"Even when the issue of public health is given paramount place, many Aboriginal residents of kava use communities express scepticism towards a government which is apparently deeply concerned about the health effects of heavy kava use, but which at the same time is seen not merely to tolerate, but actively to promote the consumption of alcohol, by issuing liquor outlet licences, allowing the advertising of alcohol, and so on. "Which drug do you believe causes more harm to Aboriginal people, nganitji (alcohol) or kava?" I have sometimes been asked. And of course, I have to reply "nganitji". The implications, having been exposed, are usually left unspoken. The fact that the Northern Territory Liquor Act has more provision for community control of alcohol than any equivalent legislation elsewhere in Australia does not negate the perception of selective attention. Sometimes the point is put more bluntly: "Kava is yulngu (Aboriginal) drink, so the government wants to stop it. Alcohol is a balanda (white person’s) drink, so they don’t stop it"

 

[kavalover]

lol, kava withdrawal. That's funny.



I suppose I laugh at these assertions as someone who went through heroin withdrawal 3 times and benzo withdrawal twice, and oxycodone/hydrocodone withdrawal countless of times. I drank kava consecutively for 5 months and stopped abruptly to prepare for surgery and not overdo it with the liver with my upcoming mega-dose of opiates and antibiotics. I experienced nothing but a desire to drink kava which was easy to suppress. Of course I would feel a desire to drink kava, as kava has become a crutch of sorts for me, but other than that I was fine. Sleep was fine, mood was shit (because, again, kava is my crutch, you take away that emotional crutch and my unstable mood came back) but overall, I had a better time getting off of kava than I did coffee.



I do not doubt that kava withdrawal may be a "thing" due to it's particular method of action, but I don't think someone like me would quite notice the potential effects of said withdrawal.



Something that I do agree should be stressed here more often is that you are correct kava is not a "free lunch" - nothing is. Kava like anything else should be respected and used cautiously with one closely monitoring themselves.

 

[kl.Kava]

Kava is addicting the same way cannabis/marijuana is. Psychologically. That being said; cannabis has more powerful psychological withdrawal/addiction than Kava even does. From what I've seen in the world of drugs whether it's medicinal or not, Kava is the safest of ALL.