Well, this is a real bummer....kava allergy after 3 years?

[kl.KarmaG]

I don't know if any of you remember but a month or so ago I made the mistake of not straining a very finely ground kava root powder and ended up with a red, puffy face like a sunburn and itchy red splotches down my torso and top of my arms. It only lasted 24 hours or so and improved with Benedryl and cortisone cream but was an unpleasant experience that I was determined to avoid in the future. Needless to say, I have been very diligent about straining my kava well since then. 
I had hoped that this would be the first and last of this, however, I have had it happen twice since with different strains of kava from different vendors on different days. I gave kava a rest for a week or so and when I tried again I made extra sure to strain well - I didn't even drink the gritty part at the bottom like I used to just in case - but unfortunately the same effects have transpired and I am again left with a red, swollen, and itchy face and torso. Bummer. (Wth)
It looks like I may have to take an even longer break from kava for the time being unless anyone can offer any suggestions on what the heck is going on here! I find it strange that I have "developed" some sort of allergy after so long. I have gone through periods of consuming much more kava than currently so I can't imagine it's the quantity or frequency of use. Every time now it seems that these symptoms develop 4 hours after drinking kava and last for 24 hours or so. No difficulties breathing or anything, just this uncomfortable redness and itchy rash. 
I guess what bums me out more than this stupid rash is the thought of no more kava. It's been so incredibly effective at helping me abstain from alcohol, stops my anxiety in its tracks, lifts my mood, and has recreational benefit without addiction potential. I'm not entirely sure of the purpose of this thread other than a place for me to bitch and moan about this unfortunate turn of events, but it anyone has any suggestions as to why this is happening or suggestions for other herbs and supplements that could help fill in the gap during the kava break that it looks like I'm going to have to take, I'd really appreciate it. This totally sucks!! (smiley: frown)

 

[Ozzyfan121]

That's terrible. I don't have any first hand experience, so I can't offer much advice. You mentioned taking antihistamines-that's the only thing I can think of that would help prevent it. As for herbs to use in the meantime, perhaps mulungu, K@, passionflower, chamomile, or valerian would be beneficial(some of those are a little more effective and have addiction potential, making them harder to come by). I wish you the best in trying to get to the bottom of this and I hope your break goes smoothly!

 

[kl.KarmaG]

Thanks for the support, ozzyfan. I've been on the fence about K@ but maybe I will give it a go after all. Mulungu is one that I've heard about in passing but never heard anyone with real results from it. I'd be interested to hear more if anyone has indeed had success with it or with anything else for that matter. Anyways, thanks again for the support and suggestions. The timing of this couldn't be worse - I start my first year of grad school in a week and I've already been forewarned by other, current students in the program that it is incredibly taxing and stressful. Still, I suppose most things happen for a reason - I just have to figure out what the reason for this is!

 

[kl.midas]

Sorry to hear KarmaG. Hopefully this is a temporary thing that will disappear after a short holiday from Kava. As Ozzy mentioned, mulungu is meant to be very kava-like in it's effects, not that I have tried it myself.

 

[Ed!]

That does suck!



I wonder if it might be somewhat related to the stress itself? I get acne when I'm stressed, my wife has dermatographia and she'll easily develop itchy red welts especially bad when she's stressed (any friction on her skin will make a bad welt).



What works best for her is a juice cleanse, or just incorporating more veggie juices into her diet. When she's drinking juice frequently the symptoms of her dermatograhia go away almost entirely... and it does improve my skin as well, for what that's worth. Might be worth giving a go while you're abstaining from kava then see if you can jump back on the wagon.

 

[kl.NDG]

mulungu is good stuff, strong and sedating, great anxiolytic.



Kanna is another substitute



K@ is great but is addictive, it's an opiate (mu receptor activity)



valerian, passionflower, mellissa, magnolia are good.



Taurine is quite good for stress, Try a high dose like 10 grams, you'll go nighty night



L-theanine is good



Phenibut is good but addictive so use sparingly.





I honestly am not sure if what you are experiencing is allergy, does it happen everytime now? or sporadically? any other meds? health conditions? when is the last time you did some bloodwork.

 

[kl.new2kava]

That totally sucks and I really hope it's temporary. I tried mulungu a few times and the best advise I can give you is to whole bark chunks or shredded bark, the powdered bark is so weak that it's basically bunk. It is a pleasant and mild sedative that is not as intoxicating as kava, why I never really liked it. The major downfall is that it's expensive when buying it shredded or chunk bark but the powdered stuff does nothing. Overall it's much more costly than kava, but is a very sweet cinnamon flavor tea.



Also try turkish mint/intoxicating mint (lagolis enebriens), it is active at much smaller doese than kava, around 4-7 grams. It is costly around 20$ an ounce but cheaper if buying bulk, but the tea is the most disgusting and profoundly bitter concoction I have ever imagined. The even more heinous aspect is that the tea absorb best sublingually so it's best to take small sips and swish it around in your mouth and let it disolve. Fuckin brutal!



Phenibut is great but I'd steer clear. I started using it for insomnia and now it has become a nighttime addiction. I don't take it for fun and the only withdrawal effect for me is horrible insomnia and migraines. It takes hours to kick in and is a pretty weird feeling.

 

[kl.KarmaG]

Thanks for all the support and suggestions! You guys are the best! I really hope it's a temporary thing, too. It's really weird that it's happening now, but I guess just like people can grow out of allergies, I guess one could grow into an allergy as well.



NDG, it happened once last month while I was on vacation and I wasn't sure what was going on. I hadn't eaten anything unusual, don't take any medications, and am a relatively healthy individual aside from some anxiety and mood issues. I figured it was a one-off occurrence due to not straining, but the last 2 times I've tried drinking kava I've gotten the same reaction. The fact that the itching and swelling respond to diphenhydramine and cortisone cream makes me think that it must be an allergy of some sort, but if anyone has any other suggestions I'm willing to take them on board. My last bloodwork was done 2 years ago and I'm due for more in September. At the time of the last draw, everything was normal which is why the doc suggested only doing labs every 2 years.



For now, I'm going to check out some of these suggestions and see how things go in a couple of months. This happened over the weekend and I still feel a lingering "off-ness" (like a pressure behind my eyes and slight headache) so I will definitely proceed with caution. Again, I really appreciate the suggestions. I've got a stressful few months ahead of me and I could use all the help I can get to get through my 1st semester of grad school.

 

[kl.midas]

NDG and New2kava, where did you guys buy your mulungu from? I've been meaning to try some for a while.

 

[Buddhacide]

Ive been reading about mulungu all day since reading this thread. I'm interested in a source as well. What does it feel like new2kava?

Also, has anyone taken straight valerian root, ie not in a supplement form? I'm interested in how strong an effect is possible with it.

I swear just when you think you know what you're talking about on an issue. Bam, mulungu. lol. It never ends

 

[kl.KarmaG]

Yeah, I'm thinking about giving mulungu and Turkish mint a whirl. I've got kanna but I've never gotten consistent results from it. Maybe I need to try again with a different method, though, since some people seem to love the stuff.

 

[kl.NDG]

I got my mulungu from KTbotanicals, I get K@ from them too, it's got to be the best on the web.



they have pretty much everything you have heard of and 1000 more things you haven't.



You can get straight up 85% kavain from them, honokiol another nice anxiolytic.

 

[kl.new2kava]

Ive been reading about mulungu all day since reading this thread. I'm interested in a source as well. What does it feel like new2kava?

Also, has anyone taken straight valerian root, ie not in a supplement form? I'm interested in how strong an effect is possible with it.

I swear just when you think you know what you're talking about on an issue. Bam, mulungu. lol. It never ends

I say it's a fairly chill anxiolic, kinda like valium-lite. It can be heavily sedating but that usually leads to sleep. I'd say it's alot like kava but doesn't have the "warped" feeling that kava does and it's just straight up relaxation. While it is possible to get pretty wasted on it, that would be kinda costly. There is also fairly strong 10:1 extracts out there that I imagine make it easier to dose. I really like the taste of the tea though. The preperation is much more like K@,  made with barely boiling water and slowely simmered down to a small volume. I got mine from gaianbotanicals, they only have 50 grams for 9$ but I got lb for 65$ once. Just make sure to get shredded or whole root, the powdered shit is just basically sawdust and does little or nothing.

   Edit: thujune is also pretty sweet. It is the active alkaloid in wormwood and is what gave absinth it's sinister reputation. It is a GABA B aganoist and a NDMA agonist to boot, being both  sedative and disassociative properties. It can be dangerous though and extended use causes serious brain damage and insanity or thujune poisoning, it is what is being blammed for Van Gogh cutting off his ear and latter commiting suicide. You can get wormwood extract for fairly cheap, just titrate your dosage carefully and don't cut your ear off......

 

[kavalover]

Yeah, I'm thinking about giving mulungu and Turkish mint a whirl. I've got kanna but I've never gotten consistent results from it. Maybe I need to try again with a different method, though, since some people seem to love the stuff.

I'm with you on the inconsistent results from kanna. Kanna, for me, is best with other substances (play it safe here as some of the alkaloids in kanna are believed to have sri action) - for instance kanna made my morning cigarette/coffee feel religious back when I used to use it all the time. lol. By itself it's pretty mellow unless you use a lot of plant matter.

Regardless I wish you the best Karma - that's going to be a bummer if you can't drink kava anymore. Keep us updated on your condition.

 

[kl.stevev]

Buddhacide, I've had supplement valerian and fresh st johns wort. Both herbs I don't think would be safe to use recreationally. But who knows.

I upped the valerian 2-3x what the reccomended dose. The dry herb is not that potent. The st johns wort I foraged; it's very easy to find. What you do is pick only the buds. The buds should bleed purple juice when you rub them. St johns wort is sedative according to my herb book. It makes me happy and calm, but not supper relaxed. Valerian and st johns wort are synergistic.

Skullcap might be a good kava substitute too. I've only made a quid a couple times. Make sure that if you get a tincture it's made with FRESH matter. It's the best for insomnia.

Motherwort (Leonurus sp) is another good one. I recently picked up a Siberian motherwort plant from a local herb grower. Not as good skullcap for insomnia, but it's just as strong. Head shops seem to like this one. I'd recommend not getting anything from a headshop, I think they exploit herbs.

Hope that helped some

 

[Buddhacide]

Thanks to everyone that answered my questions. I just placed an order at KT for a whole whack of new goodies based on reccomendations here. Bought some Phenibut randomly. I dont know why because I can easlily get a script for benzos paid for through my health plan if I wanted them. It seems about as effective/dangerous by all accounts. But curiosity got the better of me.

NDG I bought one gram of the honokial 98%. What do I do with his? How much do I take of it?

Ditto for the 85% Kavain?

 

[kl.KarmaG]

I'm interested in hearing your results, Buddhacide, especially with the mulungu. Considering my previous issues with alcohol, I'm going to stay very far away from phenibut. I'm having some pretty bad anxiety at the moment, probably due to my stupid payroll company screwing up again and leaving me without a paycheck for another two weeks. There's a little Latino convenience store that has some interesting cheap teas, so if I can't get this under control soon, I may start counting quarters to go buy some valerian or something to help with the racing heart, etc that I'm experiencing at the moment.

 

[kavalover]

I would reinforce your decision to stay very far away from phenibut. lol. I used it for about two months and had excellent results, I mean, the stuff does feel absolutely awesome albeit takes 4 hours to truly kick in. I paced myself and never dosed more than 2g 4 days separated. When I stopped completely, I had the worst depression. No rebound anxiety, just an awful feeling of emptiness. Like whatever made me human was slipping away. I'm glad I used the stuff because now I know what that particular compound has to offer, but it's serious business.

 

[Buddhacide]

First off, KarmaG I'm sorry you are having such a shit time. I think many of us on this board have been there before. Hang in there. It always passes.



Re: Phenibut. Kavalover I hear you. The internet seems to be one big caution sign. But, what can I say. I learn things the hard way

 

[kl.NDG]

Thanks to everyone that answered my questions. I just placed an order at KT for a whole whack of new goodies based on reccomendations here. Bought some Phenibut randomly. I dont know why because I can easlily get a script for benzos paid for through my health plan if I wanted them. It seems about as effective/dangerous by all accounts. But curiosity got the better of me.

NDG I bought one gram of the honokial 98%. What do I do with his? How much do I take of it?

Ditto for the 85% Kavain?

With the honokial a good starting dose is 200mgs and titrate from there. It can be strong but being a kava vet it won't over power you. Just mix it in juice, the medium isn't an issue.

I would suggest 200mgs of kavain as a start. Without the other kavalactones synergy isn't there and 200-300mgs is needed, it feels different then drinking it, almost all head. It you can't measure the dose, although there should be a mg per ml on it then just eyeball the bottle into fifths. I have gone up to 500mgs of kavain before, was relaxed as all hell but no negatives like too much kava from my experience.