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Why are all the KWK micros starting to taste the same?

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evrnd

Kava Enthusiast
I started to veer off into a bit of a monologue/rant in the Samoan thread, but decided it made more sense to start a new one.

I don't know what changed, but I've noticed all of the KWK micros are starting to taste about the same. I have older batches that don't taste like the newer ones and other stuff from other vendors that is also completely different. The Pouni [emoji50] and Samoan both taste a little sawdusty and earthy - woody is the term that keeps coming to mind. I noticed even the Melomelo has a similar taste but maybe with (I guess) what you might call a hint of pine. I am not suggesting anything about what it's the kava itself. I trust that it's just kava, but only KWK micros have this flavor currently. I would love to read more honest reviews here, especially when something is not up to par. I have found this on other forums too, where people are quieter or more forgiving about not-so-good batches when the vendors are part of the community. It's a bummer that this stuff doesn't do anything for me because I'm already avoiding the Poini [emoji50] until I see signs of improved potency/quality. KWK used to be my go to for micro. But it started with the last Loa Waka I purchased (normally ass-kicking, last batch I bought = meh) and it seems to be continuing. I might have said this in the other thread, but since my old standbys have been letting me down, I have been excited to see new stuff added. I think the Damu is the strongest of the three special varieties they've had lately. And that's depressing. The Melomelo was a little euphoric and pleasant, maybe even somewhat calming but it's nowhere near the standard of what all of their micros used to be. If other micros and even previous batches of KWK medium grind weren't doing it for me, then I would think it was just me.

I expect potency to ebb and flow somewhat, and I'm pretty grateful that I have a nice collection of medium grind from last year that I'm often too lazy or busy to make, but I'm wondering if this is even something I will be able to wait out.
 
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NAMBATU

Kava Enthusiast
The Pouni Ono and Samoan both taste a little sawdusty and earthy
Yeah I have Pouni Ono medium grind and micro and "sawdusty" is the right word. Also less potent than previous batches, but I knew that going in.

I find the tackiness of the medium grind obnoxious enough that I always mix it with something. I've never had that problem with any other kava.
 

gork

Kava Enthusiast
I'll share this out in the open at the risk of offending someone. Maybe not.
What is it with people overly defending vendors, or the vendors going on about how they are the best? Compare that battle.net. at blizzard where people will just say: this spell is not fun or helpful!
Where as some of the recent posts here and reddit are: what the! Comon man' if your stuff is not up to par, or has problems. Why not say so?

I fully agree that reviews need to be more honest as well. That's part of the reason I haven't been around as much. Sure some of the Kava's might be nice---
It's not just KWK
I'll just say it: a few people in a chat came across one time when I had made a off handed comment about some GHK root being off as...kind of pissy. I thought what the? So if a lot of the kava out now is dodgy quality, shouldn't people say so? how do we expect them to know their's an issue without openly saying so?
Frankly we shouldn't need to feel like some worker at store frightned like a yong kid when a drink they've enjoyed sometime is wrong. That's on the store to fix. Not us.
I totally agree the entire point of reviews is to have both good and bad. Check out reviews on amazon: you get 2-3 star ratings you get questions. I asked about some winter sox and a bunch of people said they suck, here's some suggestions!
That is sooo awesome
Why should it be different here? I don't say it get as arguably toxic as battle.net can be sometimes. I do say: look you enjoy this like you might a mix of coffee and beer. If it's burnt tastes like ass, you don't like it for some reason, it's not to your taste, say so. That's the whole point of constructive comentary lol.

Hit and mis batches. Let them know! how else are they going to fixe something. Their's also the thing: lets own this: it's a small niche thing, Not as many people even try it as almost anything else. That's good and bad. Good meens: if you vote with your wallet, they'll see that a hell of lot faster. That can be positive. If you like Cactus, GHK, or don't like Bulla, they'll see that a lot faster and hopefully call around to bluntly ask wtf is going on this thing is tanking and I got a shit ton coming in, how the Eff am I going to sell this? A
Offer it on amazon as well as your own website
Can we please stop ONLY the 1/2 and full pound thing? why not 1/4 pound at time? someone wants to try before they by? offer free samples? this is just basic! Someone might not know if they might like or not Frank's Awesome root, if it's going to run them neerly 40 used for something they may not like.


I know that'll come across as a rant and ruffle feathers on the other hand that's how things improve!
 

Kalm with Kava

Kava Vendor
@gork Thanks for your candid opinions. Here's some additional information to to help with your questions and statements.
Kava taste (and sometimes individual effects) is very subjective - you'll find endless reviews about some people loving a piney taste or finding hints of whatever they come up with from nutmeg to sawdust and beyond. This goes for headiness and heaviness, depending on everyone's individual body chemistry some kavas work well for them and some don't - everyone has their own preference. In the end, it's important to remember every variety has it's variances but simply because it doesn't taste good or effect an individual in a certain way doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it. We do some of the most extensive testing in the industry from microbiology, yeast and mold, chlorophyll, acetone, HPLC, etc. and nothing is released to public unless it has passed all tests. Here's the Samoa COA for example Samoa COA.JPG
On top of all of this I personally meet with our farmers or prospective farmers many times a year to ensure proper SOPs for harvesting, cleaning, testing, and export of their kava. Because of all of this I can guarantee there is no mold or sawdust in your kava.

For perspective, I'd also like to point out kava is not grown by corporations and is not a standardized pharmaceutical - it is plant that beyond the many variances in cultivars sees very noticeable variances in the exact same cultivar by amount of sun it received during growth, amount of water, elevation, and age ( which in turn effects headiness and heaviness, strength and even taste). From farmer to supplier, with all the tests we have at our disposal, we try our very best for the best experience in each and every bag but until it is developed into some highly commercialized standardized product with large corporations genetically engineering crops which frankly I think would ruin what kava is all about, it's still going to have it's variances. I hope this helps and I'm happy to answer any other questions you may have.
 

evrnd

Kava Enthusiast
I haven't been around here much lately, but I wanted to reiterate that I was not suggesting anything fishy with the contents of KWK's kava. I am sure it's the same in terms of purity that it has always been (as long as I've been a customer). Most of what this forum is about is subjective so either it's all valid or none of it is, so that doesn't necessarily do much to answer my original question. I realize you were replying more to Gork, or so it seemed, but I started this thread because I was/am genuinely curious. So what could cause the similarities in taste?
I appreciated the email newsletter with all the info about kava. I feel like I dove into parts of this forum and kava itself but missed some of the foundation info along the way.
 

Kalm with Kava

Kava Vendor
I haven't been around here much lately, but I wanted to reiterate that I was not suggesting anything fishy with the contents of KWK's kava. I am sure it's the same in terms of purity that it has always been (as long as I've been a customer). Most of what this forum is about is subjective so either it's all valid or none of it is, so that doesn't necessarily do much to answer my original question. I realize you were replying more to Gork, or so it seemed, but I started this thread because I was/am genuinely curious. So what could cause the similarities in taste?
I appreciated the email newsletter with all the info about kava. I feel like I dove into parts of this forum and kava itself but missed some of the foundation info along the way.
No worries! We're always happy to answer any questions to help understanding.

Each micronized product is derived directly from its medium ground counterpart and should be pretty close to the same taste and smell characteristics. Many times kavas from each country have very similar tastes and smells due to the growimg conditions as Kapm said. With that said, the actual micronizing process does mute these smells and tastes slightly by removing the more coarse material. Effects should be very consistent with their medium ground counterparts though. Hope that helps?
 
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evrnd

Kava Enthusiast
No worries! We're always happy to answer any questions to help understanding.

Each micronized product is derived directly from its medium ground counterpart and should be pretty close to the same taste and smell characteristics. Many times kavas from each country have very similar tastes and smells due to the growimg conditions as Kapm said. With that said, the actual micronizing process does mute these smells and tastes slightly by removing the more coarse material. Effects should be very consistent with their medium ground counterparts though. Hope that helps?
Oh, I guess that part wasn't clear. I almost exclusively buy micros from you guys. I didn't mean, "why do ONLY all the micros taste very similar?". I can't speak to the medium grind stuff because the last stuff I bought was Pouni from when it first came back late last year or early this year.
All of the KWK micros have a flavor that is unique to KWK I think and I swear it crosses between Tongan, Fijian, and Vanuatuan varieties lately more than it used to. It could have always been this way and it could be that I'm missing a nuance I used to detect more easily.
Hmmmm. So here's a (possibly noob) question: is it sometimes one farmer growing different strains or always different farmers in different countries? I've always assumed the latter but the former would explain what I've noticed.

While I have your attention... are we still on the February batch of Poini or has the supply been replenished again?
 

Kalm with Kava

Kava Vendor
Oh, I guess that part wasn't clear. I almost exclusively buy micros from you guys. I didn't mean, "why do ONLY all the micros taste very similar?". I can't speak to the medium grind stuff because the last stuff I bought was Pouni from when it first came back late last year or early this year.
All of the KWK micros have a flavor that is unique to KWK I think and I swear it crosses between Tongan, Fijian, and Vanuatuan varieties lately more than it used to. It could have always been this way and it could be that I'm missing a nuance I used to detect more easily.
Hmmmm. So here's a (possibly noob) question: is it sometimes one farmer growing different strains or always different farmers in different countries? I've always assumed the latter but the former would explain what I've noticed.

While I have your attention... are we still on the February batch of Poini or has the supply been replenished again?
There will be some rare exceptions but 99% of varieties now are country specific. In a typical kava garden or plantation a farmer may have a mix of 2 to a dozen different varieties but all from that country. I.E. Fiji doesn't grow Borogu, Vanuatu doesn't grow Loa, etc. So in Fiji Vula and Loa may smell or taste similar but have different effects. Typically (IMO) some Fiji and most Tongan and Hawaiian will have somewhat similar smells and tastes to them but Vanuatu often is distinct from these countries.

For the Pouni, we received a new shipment about a month ago :)
 

evrnd

Kava Enthusiast
There will be some rare exceptions but 99% of varieties now are country specific. In a typical kava garden or plantation a farmer may have a mix of 2 to a dozen different varieties but all from that country. I.E. Fiji doesn't grow Borogu, Vanuatu doesn't grow Loa, etc. So in Fiji Vula and Loa may smell or taste similar but have different effects. Typically (IMO) some Fiji and most Tongan and Hawaiian will have somewhat similar smells and tastes to them but Vanuatu often is distinct from these countries.

For the Pouni, we received a new shipment about a month ago :)
Gotcha. Thank you for explaining all this to me. Soooooo, it looks like I missed the boat on the last batch of Pouni On0 (I really wish it would not replace my On-o with the emoji) unless I want to order the remaining 6 2oz containers. Any idea when the next will be in? Last question. Fo' real. I don't even mind the price difference, but I hate to generate extra waste and I want to order at least 16oz of micro.
 

Kalm with Kava

Kava Vendor
Gotcha. Thank you for explaining all this to me. Soooooo, it looks like I missed the boat on the last batch of Pouni On0 (I really wish it would not replace my On-o with the emoji) unless I want to order the remaining 6 2oz containers. Any idea when the next will be in? Last question. Fo' real. I don't even mind the price difference, but I hate to generate extra waste and I want to order at least 16oz of micro.
No problem! Actually our micronizing machine broke down last week and we're still waiting for parts to arrive. So all varieties have a limited quantity until we're back up running. I'd expect about another week until we're able to increase quantity.
 
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