verticity
I'm interested in things
Yeah, if you don't have any negative side effects it is probably fine.
Kava Physiology A Nobel question...
- Thread starter Odourman
- Start date
ThePiper
Kava Lover
Sorry lol, just found it here post #9
http://kavaforums.com/forum/threads/makas-or-even-tudei.8947/#post-106049
http://kavaforums.com/forum/threads/makas-or-even-tudei.8947/#post-106049
verticity
I'm interested in things
OK, I think I was talking about @Deleted User's old results from a couple years ago there... He removed those from the TK site because they are not current.
TheKavaFlow
Kava Podcaster
Sorry if that came out a bit harsh. Your statement wasn't accurate, and I don't think we want anymore confusion around kava than there already is. Asking if a kava is noble or not is an entirely valid question.
Señor Chuggs
Friend of Kava
There may be [a perception of] some smoke blown here or there, but I'd assert that Tudei really is less likely to agree with everyone than a good quality Noble. Some people got tougher tummies.... Some don't.
There's a reason Vanuatu has distinguished these two families from each other, and engaged in separate consumption habits over the years.
Kojo Douglas
The Kavasseur
I should clarify, some non-Noble Kava can make you feel unpleasant side effects. But Kava King is Noble
Odourman
Skål from Sweden!
They answered:
"No, Vanuatu Blend kava is not harmful. We source our Kava from the islands of Vanuatu which is known to have some of the best kava in the world. The Vanuatu blend is made with noble kava that has been independently tested using HPLC analysis, DNA bar-coding and organically bio managed for quality and safety purposes. None of our kava products are extracts, made with stems or leaves or wild kava (Piper witschmanii)
We do sell a 100% lateral root product as well. Usually people will feel more of a heady feel when using the lateral root compared to the Vanuatu Blend which gives more of a balanced body to heady feel.
I would like to offer a little clarification regarding the definitions of noble kava vs tudai kava. The fundamental basis of classifying a kava variety as good (noble) or bad (tudai) is the cultivar of the kava. Botanically/Agriculturally speaking, a cultivar is just a formal variety that is unique and distinct from other varieties (macintosh, granny smith, and golden delicious are all different apple cultivars, for instance). The government of Vanuatu has designated specific kava cultivars as being good, and these are called noble, and everything else is by default not noble. The Vanuatu gov't has classified 28 varieties as "noble" (recommended for daily consumption, 79 varieties as "medicinal" (good for drinking but not preferred), 126 varieties as "tudai" (safe but not recommended because may be unpleasant), and 12 as Piper witschmanii (wild kava, not safe for human consumption). The government of Vanuatu only promotes export of approved, noble, varieties. Tudai is a local Vanuatu word that has gained some wider popularity in recent years. The origin of the term tudai came from kava from a specific group of villages that people found to be too harsh and sort of nauseating, but now it is commonly used to talk about all kava that does not fit the Vanuatu governments definition of noble. There are plenty of other varieties of kava that are neither noble nor tudei, that have a wide variety of kavalactone profiles.
The numbering system, of classifying the chemotypes of kava is related to Noble-vs-Tudai classification, but they are not synonymous. In post-hoc studies it was found that all noble varieties consistently have one of a few different kavalactone profiles, while "inferior" cultivars of kava shared a different group of kavalactone profiles. So the kavalactone profile relates to noble classification, but there are multiple different kavalactone profiles that will be found associated with certified noble cultivars. Thus kava's can not be determined to have "tudai mixed in to it"."
"No, Vanuatu Blend kava is not harmful. We source our Kava from the islands of Vanuatu which is known to have some of the best kava in the world. The Vanuatu blend is made with noble kava that has been independently tested using HPLC analysis, DNA bar-coding and organically bio managed for quality and safety purposes. None of our kava products are extracts, made with stems or leaves or wild kava (Piper witschmanii)
We do sell a 100% lateral root product as well. Usually people will feel more of a heady feel when using the lateral root compared to the Vanuatu Blend which gives more of a balanced body to heady feel.
I would like to offer a little clarification regarding the definitions of noble kava vs tudai kava. The fundamental basis of classifying a kava variety as good (noble) or bad (tudai) is the cultivar of the kava. Botanically/Agriculturally speaking, a cultivar is just a formal variety that is unique and distinct from other varieties (macintosh, granny smith, and golden delicious are all different apple cultivars, for instance). The government of Vanuatu has designated specific kava cultivars as being good, and these are called noble, and everything else is by default not noble. The Vanuatu gov't has classified 28 varieties as "noble" (recommended for daily consumption, 79 varieties as "medicinal" (good for drinking but not preferred), 126 varieties as "tudai" (safe but not recommended because may be unpleasant), and 12 as Piper witschmanii (wild kava, not safe for human consumption). The government of Vanuatu only promotes export of approved, noble, varieties. Tudai is a local Vanuatu word that has gained some wider popularity in recent years. The origin of the term tudai came from kava from a specific group of villages that people found to be too harsh and sort of nauseating, but now it is commonly used to talk about all kava that does not fit the Vanuatu governments definition of noble. There are plenty of other varieties of kava that are neither noble nor tudei, that have a wide variety of kavalactone profiles.
The numbering system, of classifying the chemotypes of kava is related to Noble-vs-Tudai classification, but they are not synonymous. In post-hoc studies it was found that all noble varieties consistently have one of a few different kavalactone profiles, while "inferior" cultivars of kava shared a different group of kavalactone profiles. So the kavalactone profile relates to noble classification, but there are multiple different kavalactone profiles that will be found associated with certified noble cultivars. Thus kava's can not be determined to have "tudai mixed in to it"."
Odourman
Skål from Sweden!
Krunkaroo wrote:
"From reddit:
Kava King
UPDATE (January 2017): The Vanuatu Daily Post has published a report of a number of American companies purchasing large quantities of poor-quality kava. The company that owns the Kava King brand was among them.
Pros: Inexpensive; Attractive packaging; various flavours and types of kava products; Cons; Reports of tudei adulteration of some of the products; no certificates of analysis; no visible commitment to noble kava; micronized kava contains harsh fibers and fillers; Low potency; Questionable marketing tactics (misinformation, scare tactics)."
"From reddit:
Kava King
UPDATE (January 2017): The Vanuatu Daily Post has published a report of a number of American companies purchasing large quantities of poor-quality kava. The company that owns the Kava King brand was among them.
Pros: Inexpensive; Attractive packaging; various flavours and types of kava products; Cons; Reports of tudei adulteration of some of the products; no certificates of analysis; no visible commitment to noble kava; micronized kava contains harsh fibers and fillers; Low potency; Questionable marketing tactics (misinformation, scare tactics)."
TheKavaFlow
Kava Podcaster
Yea it's not like they're a bad vendor, and they may have a place for newbies, but they're not known for high quality root. Really good questions though, @Odourman . Let us know if you have any more!
verticity
I'm interested in things
A couple points:
1. The comments about the origin of the terms 'noble' and 'tudei' are a bit misleading. They are traditional terms from Vanuatu that I first learned from Lebot's book "Pacific Elixer" about 20 years ago. The classification is based on traditional understanding of the effects of various cultivars, but scientists have shown that the traditional classification is highly correlated with two things: flavokavain levels, and distinct genetic groupings. It also correlates well with the coloration in the visible acetone test and chemotype. Those latter two correlations are not as strong, but they are still very useful. But my point is, it definitely is possible to distinguish noble from tudei using testing. The statement:
"There are plenty of other varieties of kava that are neither noble nor tudei"
is not really true. There are "medicinal" and "ceremonial" varieties, but those are not considered good for daily drinking. It is in fact illegal to export tudei, medicinal or wiichmanni from Vanuatu.
2. As far as I know Kava King is a reputable company, although I don't have knowledge about any specific current test results. Glad to hear they are doing testing, and pleasantly surprised that they are doing "genetic barcoding". I am curious to learn more about that, because that is potentially the best way to distinguish noble from tudei.
3. Please see here for a complete discussion of the Vanuatu Post article (and the subsequent 'retraction' they published):
http://kavascience.org/posts/t31-Tainted-Kava-Exports--Report-in-Vanuatu-Daily-Post
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Odourman
Skål from Sweden!
Sorry, but more what?
Krunkaroo
Kava Enthusiast
He mean if you have any more Kava that you'd like to share.
j/k, I'm sure he meant any more questions.
TheKavaFlow
Kava Podcaster
If you have anymore questions, feel free to post them
Odourman
Skål from Sweden!
http://kavascience.org/posts/t31-Tainted-Kava-Exports--Report-in-Vanuatu-Daily-Post
This was very confusing and I didn't see kava King mentioned?
This was very confusing and I didn't see kava King mentioned?
verticity
I'm interested in things
The companies mentioned in that article are wholesalers. According to @Kapmcrunk , Kava King may have bought from one of those wholesalers, but possibly they also buy from other places not mentioned in the article. I don't know. But that article did not specifically mention Kava King or any test results from Kava King, you are correct about that.