Anybody hear of this before ?
- Thread starter schatz
- Start date
verticity
I'm interested in things
Yes. A condition generally caused by drugs such as antipsychotics that are completely unrelated to kava.
There are a couple case reports of Parkinsonism associated with kava, but I don't believe there is a convincing case that kava causes it. See:
http://kavaforums.com/forum/threads...mentia-with-anticholinergics.8030/#post-95591
However I should also note that there was some research that came out after that thread that showed that kava could cause convulsions and paralysis in worms, symptoms that in humans would be called Parkinsonian, and suggests that kava does have some effect on muscular acetylcholine transmissions: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5462554/
But the key point is that study was in worms not humans, and there is scant evidence in humans aside from the couple of case reports...
There are a couple case reports of Parkinsonism associated with kava, but I don't believe there is a convincing case that kava causes it. See:
http://kavaforums.com/forum/threads...mentia-with-anticholinergics.8030/#post-95591
However I should also note that there was some research that came out after that thread that showed that kava could cause convulsions and paralysis in worms, symptoms that in humans would be called Parkinsonian, and suggests that kava does have some effect on muscular acetylcholine transmissions: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5462554/
But the key point is that study was in worms not humans, and there is scant evidence in humans aside from the couple of case reports...
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schatz
itchin for kava
Thanks, the study I found recently was blocked by a paywall, and I finally found how to get through those and read it. Kind of scary stuff about a 43 year old woman who came down with parkinsonium symptoms that went away with elimination of the kava extract she was taking and addition of anticholernigenics. If I can find the study again I will post you alink.
schatz
itchin for kava
I fohttps://www.deepdyve.com/lp/wiley/life-threatening-parkinsonism-induced-by-kava-kava-uPqsMyjW8Cund it I meant to say I found the article.
Zac Imiola (Herbalist)
Kava Connoisseur
She was overdosing on the anticholinergics because of the kava extract inhibiting the breakdown in the liver. This is what caused the effects in my opinion not the kava directly.
Kava extract especially is a much more potent inhibitor of liver enzymes since it lacks glutathione
Kava extract especially is a much more potent inhibitor of liver enzymes since it lacks glutathione
schatz
itchin for kava
That is what I was getting out of reading that study also, they said she was using an extract, so this would not really apply to using straight up kava medium grind with a couple Alubals once a day for several years like I have been doing. Although I might just be the only person with parkinsons that doesn't take medications.
verticity
I'm interested in things
Yea that's the same study in the thread from before. I had not read the full text before. Basically it reports a case of someone who developed a Parkinsons-like syndrome shortly after using a kava extract product. The only evidence that the kava extract was the cause is the timing. But even that doesn't make much sense. Usually to show causality, you would check if the cause happened before the effect, and also that when the cause was removed, the effect went away. To be even more sure you could try adding the cause again and see if the effect comes back, etc.. But in this case they are claiming that kava caused some kind of permanent condition that never was completely cured although it was effectively treated with anticholinergics: there was no A/B testing or anything which would be stronger evidence of causality. So another possible scenario is that the woman was unfortunately starting to develop Parkinson's disease maybe just because of her genetics. Maybe she was experiencing some pre-clinical symptoms that just felt like anxiety before being fully diagnosed, so might have tried a kava extract for that reason. In other words, it seems to me equally or more likely that cause and effect could go the other way: pre-clinical manifestations of Parkinson's causing the patient to use kava rather than the other way around.
That study also mentions this earlier case report:
Schelosky et al, Kava and dopamine antagonism
from 1995, which reports on several patients who exhibited unusual movements after taking kava extracts (which were early 90's commercial extracts). It looks like these were all patients at a neurology clinic at least one of whom already had Parkinson's disease. The authors speculate that kava might be a dopamine inhibitor based on the fact that other dopamine inhibitors can cause Parkinsonian symptoms. However we now know that that speculation was completely wrong. There is in fact some evidence that kavalactones could actually act in the exact opposite way and increase dopamine levels (Ref: Sarris's review of kava psychopharm) If the aggravation of Parkinson's by kava is a real thing (and the evidence for that is pretty limited, i.e. the above two papers) then an acetylcholine mechanism might be a more likely reason for it.