Differences of traditional grind and instant (effect wise)

[Pzk]

Hi @ll,

I only had Pacific Elixir instant till now, and I love it but somehow it differs a lot and I wonder if this is a trait of this special kava or of instant in general?

It seems to be very energizing, but only when you didn't take it for at least a couple of days. I love it, but I realize it is for one day only, and then use other kava.

Yesterday I took about 30gr of the instant within a couple of hours and had a great day and evening!

Today I took it again, about 20gr and stopped when I realized I have almost zero effect... no energy, almost no effect in general.

I know it can change and depends if you had brakes (at least to me it is like that with other kava as well), but not with such a huge difference in "great effect or no effect at all".

It is just completely different in general, and that's what I love about it. Sedation wasn't possible yesterday night, I had a hard time trying to sleep.

But that's no problem, just to mention. It is daytime kava, like an almost heady.

Love the lemon taste of this kava!

 

[JohnMichael]

Hi @ll,

I only had Pacific Elixir instant till now, and I love it but somehow it differs a lot and I wonder if this is a trait of this special kava or of instant in general?

It seems to be very energizing, but only when you didn't take it for at least a couple of days. I love it, but I realize it is for one day only, and then use other kava.

Yesterday I took about 30gr of the instant within a couple of hours and had a great day and evening!

Today I took it again, about 20gr and stopped when I realized I have almost zero effect... no energy, almost no effect in general.

I know it can change and depends if you had brakes (at least to me it is like that with other kava as well), but not with such a huge difference in "great effect or no effect at all".

It is just completely different in general, and that's what I love about it. Sedation wasn't possible yesterday night, I had a hard time trying to sleep.

But that's no problem, just to mention. It is daytime kava, like an almost heady.

Love the lemon taste of this kava!

I agree with you: instant can be great occasionally. But trad prep is The Way, especially using different cultivars. But you can also vary your instants. So I have Pacific Elixir and also FijiVanua's Instant Gold AND a nice little bag of Chris' GHK Nene Instant for extra variety. So many cultivars, so little time.

 

[Edward]

I've always really liked instant, not just because it is so easy to use but just because of the difference in effects. I find instants are a lot easier on the stomach, cause less dermo even with regular use and there is usually enough variety available to be able to suit how you want to feel that day. I have tried lots and lots of different instants and unfortunately there are some favourites I can no longer get. A stand out is "Cream of Vanuatu" which was almost white, very strong, very creamy and sent you into another world. The most beautiful kava I have ever had.

Back in those days I used to do two shells a day, load each one with about 6 teaspoons of instant in 200 ml of milk and then get it down as fast as possible. It used to really send me into another world, oddly nauseous but euphoric and feeling really alive. I would sleep like a log after (depending on the kava!) and overall it was a brilliant experience.

In contrast medium grind can be as good but in general there are more downsides such as dermo, nausea, etc. I have never had such a pleasant full body experience with medium grind as I have with instant. The whole body effect can be there but the nausea is generally a lot worse with medium grind. The whole head numbness thing is quite interesting, that doesn't happen every time!

To sum up I would say to anyone who hasn't tried instant that they really should, even if just once. Medium grind will always be there.

 

[the_wilderness]

I'm of a similar opinion to Edward, I get good predictable effects (at least from my chosen go-to instant, Green from KS/R&P) with less of the downsides and zero dermo. 16g is my starter dose, chugged; I'm trying to stick to that starter dose as I'm a daily drinker and it gets pricey of course, although so does traditional grind at the doses I need for effects. Gives me an hour of chill vibes in my day.
I would say instant gives me the best effects of traditional, but fewer effects in total. You lose those lovely subtleties, somehow, it's a more straightforward, one dimensional experience. That said, on balance instant has won out for me as my staple after a decade of traditional grind drinking. I had too many complications from traditional grind, it was less reliable in its effects, and hated downing so much liquid at once (I don't get second round effects, except the nausea, so have to frontload).

 

[Lenticels]

I'm of a similar opinion to Edward, I get good predictable effects (at least from my chosen go-to instant, Green from KS/R&P) with less of the downsides and zero dermo. 16g is my starter dose, chugged; I'm trying to stick to that starter dose as I'm a daily drinker and it gets pricey of course, although so does traditional grind at the doses I need for effects. Gives me an hour of chill vibes in my day.
I would say instant gives me the best effects of traditional, but fewer effects in total. You lose those lovely subtleties, somehow, it's a more straightforward, one dimensional experience. That said, on balance instant has won out for me as my staple after a decade of traditional grind drinking. I had too many complications from traditional grind, it was less reliable in its effects, and hated downing so much liquid at once (I don't get second round effects, except the nausea, so have to frontload).

If you've found traditional to be "less reliable" in its effects, I'm pretty sure a great deal of that can be ascribed to using blends rather than SCs (and/or "spottier" blends in general).

For me, the biggest downside for instant right now is simply the exiguity of cultivars: only a handful exist, and none of them particularly excel IMO.

There are some seriously hard-hitting traditional SCs you can get right now, and I'd be (exceedingly) surprised if none of them quite do it for you.

(Also, some of the stronger traditional grinds, e.g., some SCs from Vanuatu, really won't require tons of water in order to get good effects.)

 

[Groggy]

For me, the biggest downside for instant right now is simply the exiguity of cultivars: only a handful exist, and none of them particularly excel IMO.

If you are looking for the very best there is only one.

'Awa (Kava Kava)

A 14,000 acre biodynamic and organic ranch and farm, rustic retreat center, and vacation getaway on the remote and tranquil east end of Moloka'i. At Pu’u O Hoku you can stay on a working ranch, enjoying our Hawaiian honey, ‘awa, dried bananas, free-range beef, and a wide variety of fruit and...

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The only other one that excels in quality, be it instant or medium will be GHK.

Fijian is my go to and the best Fijian kava comes from Squanch. It is all lateral, it is the strongest.

Squanch Fijian Waka 1lb

Squanch Fiji Waka. The original Squanch Kava. This a very balanced, euphoric, and mood uplifting kava. It is great for relieving stress and anxiety. And although this is not a very sedating kava, it will still provide a sound restful sleep when you are ready for bed. It is great for relaxing by...

squanchkava.com

 

[Lenticels]

If you are looking for the very best there is only one.

'Awa (Kava Kava)

A 14,000 acre biodynamic and organic ranch and farm, rustic retreat center, and vacation getaway on the remote and tranquil east end of Moloka'i. At Pu’u O Hoku you can stay on a working ranch, enjoying our Hawaiian honey, ‘awa, dried bananas, free-range beef, and a wide variety of fruit and...

puuohokustore.com

I'm not sure I agree that there's "only one." Quality-wise, as in freshness & overall taste? Sure. In terms of the effects... I definitely don't think it's so clear-cut.

I've heard positive things re: their fresh-frozen kava root and I'm 100% considering trying it, but a lot of the Hawaiian cultivars are said to be a subtler in general when compared to Vanuatuan cultivars et al.

It's also unfortunate that we can't take a look into the pharmacological constituents of any of their cultivars, and that you can't choose the ones you get...

The only other one that excels in quality, be it instant or medium will be GHK.

Fijian is my go to and the best Fijian kava comes from Squanch. It is all lateral, it is the strongest.

Squanch Fijian Waka 1lb

Squanch Fiji Waka. The original Squanch Kava. This a very balanced, euphoric, and mood uplifting kava. It is great for relieving stress and anxiety. And although this is not a very sedating kava, it will still provide a sound restful sleep when you are ready for bed. It is great for relaxing by...

squanchkava.com

I believe you've stated your preference for Fijian kava, so yes, it isn't surprising to me that you like this blend.

But yeah, that being said, I prefer SCs.

("Strongest" overall, though? Because I'd potentially doubt that. Or just Fijian-wise? Have you tried the Fijian SCs from Koro or Kadavu Island?)

 

[Groggy]

("Strongest" overall, though? Because I'd potentially doubt that. Or just Fijian-wise? Have you tried the Fijian SCs from Koro or Kadavu Island?)

Yes

 

[Lenticels]

Yes

Could you please elaborate?

 

[Michael Nielsen]

I'm not sure I agree that there's "only one." Quality-wise, as in freshness & overall taste? Sure. In terms of the effects... I definitely don't think it's so clear-cut.

I've heard positive things re: their fresh-frozen kava root and I'm 100% considering trying it, but a lot of the Hawaiian cultivars are said to be a subtler in general when compared to Vanuatuan cultivars et al.

It's also unfortunate that we can't take a look into the pharmacological constituents of any of their cultivars, and that you can't choose the ones you get...



I believe you've stated your preference for Fijian kava, so yes, it isn't surprising to me that you like this blend.

But yeah, that being said, I prefer SCs.

("Strongest" overall, though? Because I'd potentially doubt that. Or just Fijian-wise? Have you tried the Fijian SCs from Koro or Kadavu Island?)

Fresh frozen kava is in another League.
I you contact the ranch you can make agreements on what kind of Kava cultivars you would like to order.

Root of happines do sell fresh-frozen Fijian kava.

 

[Groggy]

Could you please elaborate?

Not really, there's no point. Experiences are subjective, I speak from my experience.

After 8 years give or take of reading the same types of questions, one realizes that it is a subjective experience.

 

[Lenticels]

Not really, there's no point. Experiences are subjective, I speak from my experience.

After 8 years give or take of reading the same types of questions, one realizes that it is a subjective experience.

It's definitely subjective to a (substantial) degree, but I like hearing others' experiences anyway; it helps me make more considered decisions.

Also, I was more so asking if your "yes" pertains to Squanch Waka indeed being the strongest you've tried, or if it's in regard to trying those two cultivars I mentioned. Or both.

 

[Lenticels]

Fresh frozen kava is in another League.
I you contact the ranch you can make agreements on what kind of Kava cultivars you would like to order.

Root of happines do sell fresh-frozen Fijian kava.

In another league... how so, IYO?

I'd like to hear what you think more specifically... unless you're just going to shut-down like Groggy did, lol.

 

[Groggy]

The real common thread I've noticed among all of them, is how old the plants are. Plants that are harvested in the fourth or fifth year are usually much better (and stronger) than the standard 3-year plants.

 

[Lenticels]

The real common thread I've noticed among all of them, is how old the plants are. Plants that are harvested in the fourth or fifth year are usually much better (and stronger) than the standard 3-year plants.

Yep.

E.g., from Tongoa, puariki is one cultivar that's of course fairly mature now compared to how it once was (and maybe gorgor as another Vanuatuan, the recent batch of which I've heard by some to be quite good.)

 

[Michael Nielsen]

In another league... how so, IYO?

I'd like to hear what you think more specifically... unless you're just going to shut-down like Groggy did, lol.

I agree with what is said in the reviews of fresh frozen kava in this forum.
Just give it a try.

 

[Lenticels]

I agree with what is said in the reviews of fresh frozen kava in this forum.
Just give it a try.

Probably will!

 

[Pzk]

Thank you all for your replies!

Fascinating that @Edward says it is easier on his body. At least the Pacific Elixir.... from the beginning I had the impression that they didn't strain it through very fine mesh size. When I do my traditional grind, I went back to hemp-nutmilk-bags. I have this nylon strainer bag also, some people prefer because "more kavalactones pass the strainer". To me it is hard on the stomach. I am completely back to normal nutmilk bags. And I can make a very strong kava, so I stick to that method.

Two days ago I used my strong blender and tried to blend the Pacific Elixir instant, just because I was curious. It never dissolves 100% and it is a bit hard on my stomach and body in general, I especially realize the next 1-2 days! So you see a lot of bigger particles in the instant.

What happened after blending and straining it through a nutmilk bag? 20% of the effect left... I guess 80% was stuck in the nutmilk strainer! 80%

So I scraped it off, put it to the 20% watered down version, and had full effect again.

How can that be? My traditional grind, strained with my nutmilk strainer is strong. What would happen I make an instant out of it? Would I also be left with particles that stick in the strainer bag afterwards?

I don't get it....

My bet is, they are using strainers with a huge mesh size. And it makes me wonder because you can produce very strong kava even with very fine mesh size!


I'll add a picture.

 

[Jean]

I agree with @Pzk that @Edward remark doesn't reflect the general effect experienced by people with instant : I think that the majority of people have troubles with instant kava due to the fact that too big particles are present, i.e. micronized kava has particles above the 100 nm size. Using a 80 mesh strainer, those particles are excluded. That is why even with micronized kava I use a strainer.

 

[Edward]

I agree with @Pzk that @Edward remark doesn't reflect the general effect experienced by people with instant : I think that the majority of people have troubles with instant kava due to the fact that too big particles are present, i.e. micronized kava has particles above the 100 nm size. Using a 80 mesh strainer, those particles are excluded. That is why even with micronized kava I use a strainer.

I think maybe though there is some confusion between instant and micronised kava. I am talking about true instant kava and not micro. Micronised kava tends to be very harsh on the stomach just due to the high amount of larger particles in the mix. A true instant kava is generally very smooth and once you finish it you will notice an extremely low amount of sediment in your shell. If you are getting a lot of sediment in your instant kava then you need a different instant kava!