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Kava Research Dr. Xing: "Hepatotoxic Risk due to wrong Cultivar [...] and that Cultivar is 'Tudei' Kava"

Discussion in 'Kava Lounge' started by infraredz, May 23, 2014.

  1. infraredz

    infraredz BULA!

    If you are new, or unfamiliar with what "tudei" and "noble" refer to, please visit this page which describes the definitions of these terms before proceeding.


    [TRANSCRIPT compiled from video]
    Hello I’m Steve Myers, Senior Editor at Natural Products Insider Magazine and I’m here at the 13th annual Oxford International Conference on the science and regulation of botanicals here at University of Mississippi.

    With me is Dr. Chris Xing, Associate Professor in the Department of Medicinal Chemistry at University of Minnesota. Thanks for joining us Dr. Xing.

    Dr. Xing.
    “It is my pleasure to be here”
    In your presentation today you talk in great detail about the rise, the fall and the resurrection of Kava.

    When you look at what history tells us what, you’ve learned up to this date with any new research, and you assess the risk and the benefit of Kava. What Kava can do for people and what the risks are taking Kava, what have we learned about each side of that equation including the different cultivars?

    Dr. Xing:
    Alright so as you mentioned that, Kava has had a rise at the fall and right now it looks like it’s coming back and Kava was used as an anxiolytic in Europe for a number of years in Europe and it was pulled from the market because there were rare hepatotoxic cases observed among Kava users.

    And recently it was found that, the kava was demonstrated to have very strong anxiolytic activity in recent clinical trials, double blinded randomized trials and it’s hepatotoxic risk is probably due to a wrong cultivar, not recommended for traditional use. And that cultivar is called, "Tudie kava".

    And the reason that the Tudei kava got into the market, is because mainly, because it grows faster and offers a higher yield.

    But it turned out over recent analysis in combination with the work from [inaudible] demonstrated that this Tudei contains higher level of a certain type of chemical that can deplete Glutathione that compromises the liver function for detoxification function which may contribute to the observed hepatotoxicity among kava users.

    So, given that we understand the cause of the hepatotoxic risk and recent clinical validation of kava’s anxiolytic activity, we believe that, Kava, with proper standardization, removing its hepatotoxic species, starting with the right starting materials go through the quality controls, it will benefit human as an anxiolytic and as a dietary supplement.

    Wow, very fascinating developments with Kava. Thank you for joining us here today and for all the great information.

    Dr. Xing:
    Thank you. It is my pleasure

    Thanks for tuning in and check out our other videos from here at the International Botanical Conference here at the University of Mississippi.
    Last edited: May 28, 2014
    KavaLot and ApéroNoble like this.
  2. ApéroNoble

    ApéroNoble The d'Artagnan forum 4th Kavateer

    Great find infraredz-Thanks for posting that
  3. k0rd

    k0rd Member

    Having heard before that the hepatoxic risk may be due to parts of the plant other than the root, I am wondering if this still could be the case... or if the whole plant should be considered safe.
  4. infraredz

    infraredz BULA!

    Yes, the aerial portions of the plant (anything that is not the root/stump) is definitely toxic. That much we know for certain.

    The whole plant would include the roots.

    That being said, as the research and scientifically proven findings show, there is reason to believe that some cultivars of kava (tudei/ISA, wichmannii) could have the potential to be toxic even with the roots alone.

    Please see:
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  5. k0rd

    k0rd Member

    Thanks for the clarification - as "new" information becomes available, sometimes it is necessary to restate old things that might or might not still be true.. not that I'd be trying anything but root anyway!
  6. infraredz

    infraredz BULA!

    I definitely agree.

    One thing we know for certain is that we should not be using aerial portions of the plant, though I can with reasonable certainty say that all of our approved vendors are in compliance with that. I really think that it was due to the European nutraceutical companies and their unscrupulous behavior.

    However, like @Tyler has mentioned, there are several other things that need to be taken into account when talking of safety, such as heavy metals, pathogens (such as fungus, bacteria and viruses), pesticides and the overall content of the ground up stuff that we get from a vendor who gets his stuff from a guy that gets it from a grower. This is the purpose of the AKA and the testing and certification processes.
  7. infraredz

    infraredz BULA!

    Also, I remembered there was this information posted by a vendor and stating what he knows about the situation. Again, maybe Tyler can clarify things, since that was posted a while ago (in terms of the fast paced nature of the research on kava safety).

    Also, please feel free to check out the "Kava Science" of the Wikipedia Bridge:

    This post is a good summary as well, though do check out all the posts under "Kava Science" under that "Wiki Bridge"

    This is something that I don't think I've ever publicly said, but everyone one here can research these things for themselves. If they come across anything that is questionable or confusing, they can always feel free to post their concerns and questions and have members comment and hopefully help them out.
  8. keeron

    keeron Kava Enthusiast


    Should i be worried about the Koniak from BKH, i just bought ??
    Due to it been a Tudei strain ??

    I was browsing a thread, stating the Koniak is a Tudei strain.
    Now im thinking i wasted my money, and im been a bit paranoid.

    Do you think 500 grams of Koniak will be safe (nothing to worry about) and then i can safely consume Nambawan or Borogu and safer strains in the future ??

    P.s i dont drink alcohol, and use kava instead of paracetamol or headache tablets.
    Last edited: May 27, 2014
  9. infraredz

    infraredz BULA!

    Koniak is listed by BKH themselves as a kava that isn't suitable for everyday drinking. Judd may object to the term "tudei" being applied to it, due to semantics, but it has shown all the qualities of tudei and was confirmed as a tudei kava by Dr. Lebot.

    I wouldn't say you wasted your money, though it might have been prudent for you to read the important threads when you join and before you purchase new products. Those threads are stickied for a reason.

    500g of Koniak is not going to kill you. However, as you can see from everything that has been compiled regarding tudei kava, there is a good amount of evidence that it is not as safe as noble kava.

    I personally choose not to buy it or any other kava that I even suspect might be tudei.

    Don't be paranoid, but do try to keep yourself informed by reading the wealth of information that our members have compiled regarding these important topics. I would personally advise you don't consume any tudei kava, but you just put in an order for .5kg of it. I actually have consumed this stuff myself, to many people's surprise. I was sent about 500g from another member and other than using it for the acetone test, I drank it once on its own, hated the effects but decided that I wouldn't waste free kava because I was pressed for money and so I ended up mixing it into my normal noble kava mixes. For example, I added 1tbsp into 8tbsp of Melo Melo until it was gone.
  10. keeron

    keeron Kava Enthusiast

    Ok, thanks..

    I think i will do the same, e.g 1tbsp into 5-8 tbsp of the Nambawan ive ordered alongside the Koniak.
    I will just stick to Nambawan & safer strains from BKH & VKS in the future.

    I guess, before this info about Tudei being potentially toxic came out onto the forums, alot of us in here were Consuming Tudei on a regular basis anyways, if not on a daily basis.

    I found out about Tudei potentially being toxic before i ordered Koniak, its just that i didnt know Koniak was of , or could be of the Tudei strain.
    Oh well. I will just have to order Melo Melo, or Nambawan x 2, next time. ;)
  11. infraredz

    infraredz BULA!

    You aren't missing out, in fact you are getting far better kava IMO. Nambawan is hands down, my favorite kava I've ever tired and it's noble and suitable for daily drinking.

    Therefore, not taking into account microbiological, heavy metal or pesticide contaminants it is completely safe!

    Hopefully with Tyler and the AKA getting going, we will soon have the final piece of the puzzle regarding safety, because as he has accurately pointed out, there are other potential reasons to worry about kava's safety.
    Last edited: May 27, 2014
  12. keeron

    keeron Kava Enthusiast

    Ok, thanks for stopping me from worrying ! haha!..
    I guess unknown sources of Kava, such as ebay, and Non-Reputable sources are far worse than anything (even if tudei) from BKH or other reputable good quality sources.

    Im looking forward to some Nambawan!!!.. I cant wait.
    Im also looking forward to Koniak, even if it is or could be a tudei.
  13. infraredz

    infraredz BULA!

    Yes, this is what I have been saying for sometime now, and as some people have recently found, their product carried on Amazon was indeed, tudei, and the onwers didn't even know what that meant, let alone care in the least. In fact, they just refused to respond to our member's (civil) questions. While I hate to think that aerial portions are being sold, I really can't say that they aren't I mean, under the Kava Act of 2002, exportation of tudei kava is completely illegal and yet it continues to be exported by the ton every day.

    Work in the kava industry, along with research conducted by numerous kava experts have genetically identified distinctions between tudei and noble kava, the word tudei can absolutely be applied to kavas outside of Vanuatu that possess certain attributes. Like I said, Dr. Lebot confirmed this was a tudei kava (actually twice).
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