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Drop in effects?

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by Go Krunk Yourself, Oct 14, 2018.

  1. Go Krunk Yourself

    Go Krunk Yourself Kava Enthusiast

    I have been receiving diminished effects from Kava for a while now. I am a heavy user and I am doing more then enough to feel quite krunked, yet I have noticed a pretty sharp reduction. I could keep going and barely break a sweat, and this was not typical in the past as Iv'e had lets say a 11 year waka and i had to sell it becuase it was too potent for me, now I can get a mild-moderate effect no matter how much I do. The main thing thats changed is my switch from aluballs to traditional prep and I am also on an SSRI and a Statin drug (perhaps their having an effect)

    I stiill "feel' the Kava, but I'd expect at the doses I'm doing I should be seeing double (which has happened before) instead its more like a 2-4 TBPS dose.
  2. the_wilderness

    the_wilderness Kava Enthusiast

    No explanations, but same. Always was a hard-hitter, but now I take micro at close to obscene quantities for pretty basic effects.
  3. Henry

    Henry . Moderator The Kava Society of New Zealand

    Could be the other drugs you are taking.
  4. recentreturn

    recentreturn Kava Enthusiast

    I'm taking an SSRI and haven't noticed it being an issue with potency, but my dose is not super high (with regard to the SSRI). Maybe try taking a break; I know everyone says there is no such thing as tolerance, but there is anecdotal evidence on the forums that switching things up can help. Also, we do know that batches can vary, so before taking a kava break, you could also try switching to a different blend/cultivar. I have some (mostly baseless) doubts about the oft touted concept of kava as being completely exempt from the notion of tolerance. At very least, taking a multi-day break will let you get to your true baseline and re-experience the effects of kava starting from that. Perhaps we just get used to being mildly krunked 24/7 and no longer notice that its already affecting us before we start drinking on a given day. With regard to energy levels, I have felt like it actually takes a few days to get to a true baseline, but that's my subjective perception.
    BulamamatoNCIRVCKKPC likes this.
  5. Henry

    Henry . Moderator The Kava Society of New Zealand

    I think most reports of alleged increased tolerance (that we see here) come from people in the following situations:

    -Those who have always been taking obscene, extreme amounts of kava. We are talking about quantities in excess of 1000s % of recommended medicinal dose or 200-300% higher than what is considered to be "extremely heavy" consumption for recreational purposes. Who knows, maybe at these quantities some tolerance can develop? Or maybe some people simply don't respond well to kava.
    -Those who take kr@om
    -Those who take other prescription drugs or substances
    -Those who suffer from some health problems

    I am not saying it's totally impossible for anyone else to experience a similar thing, but in my view, in most cases (different to the above scenarios) it's a matter of root's potency and prep/consumption patterns.

    In any case, probably more than 99.99% of kava users do not experience any increase in tolerance.
  6. SelfBiasResistor

    SelfBiasResistor Persist for Resistance!

    If tolerance happens, it will happen whether high doses are consumed or low doses. I'm becoming open to the possibility that one or more kavalactones could be effected by tolerance build up over time but the more important factor has been the diminished quality of the root sold in the US market over the past couple of years.
  7. Henry

    Henry . Moderator The Kava Society of New Zealand

    Not necessarily. I guess it's hard to tell what happens with your brain/receptors etc past certain thresholds. Maybe something gets deregulated. who knows. Extreme doses can result in extreme effects. I mean, even water can be lethal at a certain dose. Maybe a chronic exposure to extreme doses of kava, coupled with other substances and medications does diminish one's perception of kava's effects.
    Or maybe those who need extreme amounts of kava to feel anything in the first place, might be genetically predisposed not to get much from kava? Not sure. just speculating.

    As for the quality of the roots, that's largely bollocks. When you look at HPLC results, most popular kavas have remained largely consistent. If there is a drop in potency of one or two products, it's a difference of maybe 10%, i.e. not something that would make it "impossible" to feel anything from kava. At the same time, it really isn't hard to find strong, noble kavas on the market.
  8. ThePiper

    ThePiper Kava Enthusiast

    My money is on the pharmaceuticals. Ssri pharms can affect your whole neurochemistry. I have heard people say alcohol feels different after they take Zoloft, or that they need more after getting on it.
  9. Go Krunk Yourself

    Go Krunk Yourself Kava Enthusiast

    The combo of the SSRI + Kava has been great for months (although a little less then I used to do before) so its happened suddenly. I believe it does diminish some of the effect though. It diminishes a lot of effects though but has saved my life in many ways.

    For the record, I still feel the Kava and my family has flat out told me I looked high pretty much, so their is an effect it's just doesn't compound to the degree i'd expect from it. I will still continue to do it, but I do seek to really get my krunk going at times, and I just don't get there anymore, even with the heady stuff. The only big change has been the lack of aluballs.

    Because i've been trying to really get it to kick in, I've used a lot of kava recently. I ordered 4 pounds and I doubt this will last 2 weeks. Would that be considered extremely heavy usage? An average dose used to be about 4-8 TBPS per day but I can't find a damn measuring spoon in Thailand for the life of me, but its definitely higher now.

    I also used to use micronzied which I'm convicned is very potent stuff compared to medium grind. I feel like, what I'm experiecing, is a lot of what people who don't really "feel" Kava feel. Like its a good backround thing, witihn 20 minutes I start "feeling" the effects but I know that SUPER potency feeling and I'm not getting it.

    FYI: Alcohol does feel different and come to think of it, even that has diminished effects at lower doses now.
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2018
  10. Kapmcrunk

    Kapmcrunk The Kaptain of Crunk KavaForums Founder

    I'm leaning towards the statin. They've been known to cause some really strange effects. Our secretary at the office couldn't taste any spicy foods while on statins, and they are much more common to carry the "grapefruit" warnings. I'm having a tough time working out why they would interact negatively, however I have a feeling it's because they both are potent CYP3A4 inhibitors. It could be that your system is sensitive to whatever component of kava that CYP3A4 metabolizes and the statins are significantly slowing that breakdown....maybe :)
  11. Go Krunk Yourself

    Go Krunk Yourself Kava Enthusiast

    sad part is, I need the statin. I have extremely high cholesterol and without it I'll have big problems. However, the SSRI... I haven't noticed many side effects from the statin, and I've been on the same dose over a year and i was sitll feeling the effects last year but maybe it built up over time, who knows, its all taking a guess tbh, little tihngs seem to effect people we'll see when I get my aluball's back how I feel, then I'll try micronzied again.

    OHHHH, I also gained a lot of weight. Could that have an effect?
    Intrepidus_dux likes this.
  12. Kapmcrunk

    Kapmcrunk The Kaptain of Crunk KavaForums Founder

    chart.png
    (https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/grapefruit-juice-and-statins)
    BulamamatoNCIRVCKKPC likes this.
  13. Go Krunk Yourself

    Go Krunk Yourself Kava Enthusiast

    Yeah I know about the grapefruit thing. I'm on crestor, I didn't think Kava would have any effec with that though.
    Kapmcrunk likes this.
  14. Kapmcrunk

    Kapmcrunk The Kaptain of Crunk KavaForums Founder

    Perfect, and you're right. It shouldn't cause issues. Hmmm. I really do wish we could pinpoint the cause of this.
  15. Go Krunk Yourself

    Go Krunk Yourself Kava Enthusiast

    The main thing thats changed in aluball to manual. But I swear I strain it for a while, I'm just sat there really pressing it out. And I also do double washes.
  16. SelfBiasResistor

    SelfBiasResistor Persist for Resistance!

    Kneading should result in a more potent drink than the aluball. What kava have you been drinking and noticing this with? Have you tried only doing a first wash?
    Intrepidus_dux likes this.
  17. Go Krunk Yourself

    Go Krunk Yourself Kava Enthusiast

    What difference would only doing a first wash have? With a wide range of kava's from KWK's lineup.
  18. SelfBiasResistor

    SelfBiasResistor Persist for Resistance!

    If you extracted most of the KLs on the first wash and use too much liquid on the second you may be watering it down too much. The first wash will always be significantly more potent.
  19. ThePiper

    ThePiper Kava Enthusiast

    Seems like you'd get less krunk overall if you only had one wash. The second wash is usually weaker and adds to bloating but if your trying to maximize effects it seems helpful. That's just my opinion..

    I may be alone in this but after a couple years of mostly daily kava I have noticed a decrease in the depth of effect and a bit of tolerance. Kava still gives me the same reaction but it is less novel to my mind. Not too bad either, maybe 25% or so. But i don't get why so few people report any tolerance at all. It's like the effects increased slowly with regular drinking and they reached a plateau after maybe 18 months of daily drinking and now they are a bit lower. Definitely got stronger effects from most kava in the first year of daily drinking than i do now. The solver lining is now i cam tolerate heavy kavas better, so i can get a new kind of krunk despite missing out on the extra awesome euphoria that heady kava used to give me.
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
  20. Go Krunk Yourself

    Go Krunk Yourself Kava Enthusiast

    I used to have a diet coke with my Kava to get past the taste. I found this was part of the reason. Even so, their is still a drastic reduction in krunkneness which I can only attribute to Lexapro or Crestor. I will cut out Crestor for a week and see if their is any difference, if their isn't I will then need to consider if i want to stay on the Lexapro long term.