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Kava Physiology Entourage effects of kava, and microdosing

Krunkie McKrunkface

Kava Connoisseur
I brought this up first!

I think a huge future lies in these, and we have barely scratched the surface. Of course, it harks back to my continual tedious discussion about systemic versus immediate effects. The immediate effects of kava, over a few hours with heavy consumption, is immensely pleasurable, or at least it bloody well should be!

But the systemic effects are much more tremendous and powerful, and to achieve them you can consume regular low doses that have (seemingly) no immediate effects whatsoever, so with people's inherent present focus bias, they rarely see or look for these more profound systemic effects, except as a curious set of side effects. I would argue these are the effects of kava, and that the pleasant effects immediately after consuming a large quantity is the side effects. We may be missing the forest for the trees here.

The entourage effects are a similar thing, because we don't get many entourage effects, because we tend to specifically rule out doing things that would give them to us, we miss out.

I think this perhaps has the greatest impact on newbies, who obsess on the immediate effects and ignore or do not know about the systemic effects.

I mean, shit, I went from obese to normal weight in 8 months drinking kava, lost enough weight so when I developed cancer, my lower weight made me a candidate for surgery which I would not have been able to have otherwise, possibly saving my life. I sleep 8 hours every night unless I want and choose not to, thanks to kava and I have more and better rem sleep, which makes the slep more refreshing, renewing and effective. Also, kava got me to drop a 40 year alcohol habit ( addiction? Who knows) with zero effort. All this while showing me a good time.

Anyway, just wanted to get people thinking about entourage effects. Context, prep, attitude, and a wider range o f kavalactones. Looking at the bigger picture. Because, as I always say, immediate effects are more hit or mis, will you get krunk, get the euphoria, get sleepy, tamp down your anxiety for a few hours? The systemic effects are much more powerful, life-altering or improving, and more profound and finally, more reliable. Immediate effects only work if you have just shelled but systemic effects carry over days or even weeks after you last drank kava. If you feed the permakrunk, it can feed you. And the systemic effects are much ess hit and miss, in part I believe because you have built up inside you an entourage effect, made possible cumulatively, and through aggregation, which cannot be achieved in a single or atomized sesh.
 
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Alia

'Awa Grower/Collector
I brought this up first!

I think a huge future lies in these, and we have barely scratched the surface. Of course, it harks back to my continual tedious discussion about systemic versus immediate effects. The immediate effects of kava, over a few hours with heavy consumption, is immensely pleasurable, or at least it bloody well should be!

But the systemic effects are much more tremendous and powerful, and to achieve them you can consume regular low doses that have (seemingly) no immediate effects whatsoever, so with people's inherent present focus bias, they rarely see or look for these more profound systemic effects, except as a curious set of side effects. I would argue these are the effects of kava, and that the pleasant effects immediately after consuming a large quantity is the side effects. We may be missing the forest for the trees here.

The entourage effects are a similar thing, because we don't get many entourage effects, because we tend to specifically rule out doing things that would give them to us, we miss out.

I think this perhaps has the greatest impact on newbies, who obsess on the immediate effects and ignore or do not know about the systemic effects.

I mean, shit, I went from obese to normal weight in 8 months drinking kava, lost enough weight so when I developed cancer, my lower weight made me a candidate for surgery which I would not have been able to have otherwise, possibly saving my life. I sleep 8 hours every night unless I want and choose not to, thanks to kava and I have more and better rem sleep, which makes the slep more refreshing, renewing and effective. Also, kava got me to drop a 40 year alcohol habit ( addiction? Who knows) with zero effort. All this while showing me a good time.

Anyway, just wanted to get people thinking about entourage effects. Context, prep, attitude, and a wider range o f kavalactones. Looking at the bigger picture. Because, as I always say, immediate effects are more hit or mis, will you get krunk, get the euphoria, get sleepy, tamp down your anxiety for a few hours? The systemic effects are much more powerful, life-altering or improving, and more profound and finally, more reliable. Immediate effects only work if you have just shelled but systemic effects carry over days or even weeks after you last drank kava. If you feed the permakrunk, it can feed you. And the systemic effects are much ess hit and miss, in part I believe because you have built up inside you an entourage effect, made possible cumulatively, and through aggregation, which cannot be achieved in a single or atomized sesh.
Can you clarify 'entourage effects' ? Several recent scientific papers out of Chaminade University, Honolulu (H. Turner, et. al.) have stressed the "entourage effects" of kava beverage. In this instance she is referring to consuming the beverage as a whole product, not a solvent derived extract. Beverage made from the traditional preparation method from ground root, fresh or dry has much more than just kavalactones. Dr. Turner, and others, even cited specific benefits from the entourage effect- eg. calcium mobilizing from beverage that does not occur with solvent derived extracts or kava pills. They have even pointed to this calcium mobilizing benefit as related to cancer prevention. As I read your entourage effect discussion, you mean something different?
 
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Krunkie McKrunkface

Kava Connoisseur
Can you clarify 'entourage effects' ? Several recent scientific papers out of Chaminade University, Honolulu (H. Turner, et. al.) have stressed the "entourage effects" of kava beverage. In this instance she is referring to consuming the beverage as a whole product, not a solvent derived extract. Beverage made from the traditional preparation method from ground root, fresh or dry has much more than just kavalactones. Dr. Turner, and others, even cited specific benefits from the entourage effect- eg. calcium mobilizing from beverage that does not occur with solvent derived extracts or kava pills. They have even pointed to this calcium mobilizing benefit as related to cancer prevention. As I read your entourage effect discussion, you mean something different?
Oh no, that is exactly what I meant. I didn't realize people were already on it, which renders my initial post irrelevant. Oh well. Never mind.

Maybe a thread on how to promote them? I mean like specific techniques.
 

ThePiper

Kava Lover
MC kuni, am I right to think that you are seeing the entourage effect in this case as not only the lactones and other compounds, but the entourage of experiential factors that the user is exposed to during the kava session?

Autocorrect has presented another awesome alias for you by the way..
 

Krunkie McKrunkface

Kava Connoisseur
MC kuni, am I right to think that you are seeing the entourage effect in this case as not only the lactones and other compounds, but the entourage of experiential factors that the user is exposed to during the kava session?

Autocorrect has presented another awesome alias for you by the way..
Yes, that is how I am conceptually oriented regarding entourage effects. Not just the isolated constituent parts in aggregation, but more like a total gestalt including the components but also combinations and permutations plus the ambience, the attitude.
 

Zac Imiola (Herbalist)

Kava Connoisseur
Entourage as being used by those studies is referring to synergy in reference to the individual session.
Krunky although meaning the same thing is talking about the long term buildup of those constituents in the person.
The wording is similar but do mean different things technically.. although they are really the same in the end

Microdosing is actually the way one of my favorite herbal teachers Mathew Wood practices.
On his website there is a free class about this called nudgopathy.
All herbs seem to work most effective this way when using for chronic conditions which Krunky for sure was.
Whereas mega doses acutely can be effective for acute conditions .. such as a twisted ankle or some tooth ache . Somethingthat would resolve itself naturally anyway.
 
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