How to get the desired reaction out of kava...

[ThePiper]

I honestly expect the positive effects to come back after a short break, I think 3x/week might be my ideal schedule. The same was true when I was on benzos, if I took them a few days in a row I'd become emotionally numb, which is in my opinion the worst part of depression. I'd rather be sad than numb any day. I think the odds of damage are pretty low, I never used benzos daily or in doses above, say 20 mg of valium in a day, and it was usually more like 5mg. The alcohol, possibly, but I wasn't completely out of my mind all the time or anything, I was always able to fulfill my obligations (grades, family obligations, etc.) and at parties I was never the most drunk, the problem was I'd just do it around 6 times a week, not always binging. I guess I'll never know for sure, I've always had anxiety and I had depression long before I began drinking. It doesn't seem to have impacted my development much because here I am in college being more successful than most of my highschool peers who didn't struggle with depression, chronic anxiety, or drink (or use the plethora of other substances I dealt with, namely psychedelics) I guess what I'm trying to say is my chemistry has always sort of been the same as far as mood, cognition, and my reaction to certain gabaergenics) I'm not sure how gabaergenic theanine is but I've been taking that for months before kava and it doesn't seem to cause any problems. I only mention this because I've read that the two substances have similar effects on GABA (hopefully upregulation)

Reading over this post it looks sort of like I'm needlessly defending myself, but is it really that unheard of that daily use of kava can lead to diminished benefits? I doubt it has anything to do with a damaged gaba system because I've read about dozens of chronic 20+ year alcohol/benzo users who use kava every day and love it.

Strains... Nambawan, Borogu, Waka (current favorite) and Melo-melo, which is great but gives me the most nausea. Oh and instant green, along with 84% paste, Stone, Black Sand, and Chief's Jungle from Nakamal@home, MountainRose Herbs kava, and health food store tinctures back in the day,

 

[infraredz]

I'm not sure how gabaergenic theanine is but I've been taking that for months before kava and it doesn't seem to cause any problems. I only mention this because I've read that the two substances have similar effects on GABA (hopefully upregulation)

Reading over this post it looks sort of like I'm needlessly defending myself, but is it really that unheard of that daily use of kava can lead to diminished benefits? I doubt it has anything to do with a damaged gaba system because I've read about dozens of chronic 20+ year alcohol/benzo users who use kava every day and love it.

Strains... Nambawan, Borogu, Waka (current favorite) and Melo-melo, which is great but gives me the most nausea. Oh and instant green, along with 84% paste, Stone, Black Sand, and Chief's Jungle from Nakamal@home, MountainRose Herbs kava, and health food store tinctures back in the day,

Well you definitely shouldn't need to defend yourself. As I said before (maybe in another thread) we are all different and there is no definitive answer to anything. I hope I didn't come off that way, if so, apologies.

Theanine is actually more of a gulatime/glutamate-related substance. It has an effect on dopamine and maybe a few other receptors but not GABA (could be mistaken). Pretty much every GABAergic substance I know of causes downregulation which you could think of as being synonymous with tolerance and dependence. Kava is really the only substance I know of personally that has the potential to cause upregulation.


You have definitely tried all the right strains (different chemotypes and such) so it's not a question of the substance. IME (reading, conversations and personal experience), I've never heard of kava causing diminshed benefits. Because it has no tolerance (other than reverse tolerance), there shouldn't be any physiological changes caused by it. It's really quite benign. If any others could chime in with your experience with kava and diminished effects, I know it would be helpful.

 

[violet]

@ThePiper I wonder if part of why you are feeling crummy is from lost electrolytes? Dehydration does it, but drinking large amounts of water will dilute the electrolytes further and cause them to be more greatly flushed from the body. I start getting sucked into a dark hole when my magnesium gets low and take a chelated form of it each night until after I start feeling better. You can get magnesium uptake from epsom salt baths too. Getting enough high quality dietary salt (Himalayan, Celtic, Real, etc.) is important, especially while using diuretics, as the salt will help prevent the electrolyte loss to begin with. Salt helps your body hold onto and recycle other minerals and prevents the muscle lethargy that happens when the body starts scavenging itself looking for the electrolytes it needs when they get low.

I am wondering if there isn't a "sweet spot" somewhere between reverse tolerance and actual tolerance. I'd been on day six sans kava when I began with my last batch, and it hit me like a truck the first few nights. The effects became blunted after that. I've experienced some inconsistency in the past, but never anything like this, so I'm not sure if it's me or this particular kava. I may take another little break soon just to observe what happens upon resuming again.

 

[Gourmet Hawaiian Kava]

@ Thepiper, did you say you are using K@ with your kava? Never mix other herbs with kava, K@ is known to have bad effects with kava after a period of time and it also seems to have an addictive quality to it. Think the traditional way and things should go good, try drinking 1 big gulp at a time and wait for 5 min or so and then take more if you feel you need to. It sounds like you need kava that is highest in Kavain, you want to stay away from the kava that has a lot of Dihydromethysticin DHM) and Dihydrokavain (DHK), and also try the stump of the kava instead of the lateral roots, that will help with the undesired effects. Aloha.

Chris

 

[kavadude]

Honestly sounds like it's time for a week or so break and then come back to it, maybe try some different products than what you have been drinking afterwards too. I have certainly gotten to that point once or twice myself. I know it can be difficult if you are using kava for medical purposes but I think it would be beneficial in the long run.

 

[kavakavakrunk]

I also get the horrible dehydration from hell. Headaches, dermopathy, dry eyes, etc. The best way I found to take my kava is by drinking coconut water throughout the day to get my electrolytes in and well-hydrated. I always eat a light lunch before or at noon and make my kava around 6:00pm. I normally make my kava with as little water as possible and just down it all at once. Usually 1/2 cup root to 2.5 cups water and then a second rinse on the root with 1.5 cups water all in one big cup. I may use less root if its a more potent strain, like Nambawan, don't use the 1/2 - 2.5 cups water ratio you will be spinning your nuts off. Also, seriously consider a double strain on your kava... the root sediment will make you even more dehydrated/nauseous if it's mixed in your drink.

 

[ThePiper]

thanks guys. I take kava for stress-related and (mild) social anxiety, but I appreciate it's effects as a sleep aid and muscle relaxer. I'm taking tonight off but I'm seriously hoping that's enough because I'm having my first date in over a year tomorrow night. I wish I could get my shit together as far as effects!

 

[ThePiper]

After tomorrow I'll resume the break for a few days, and maybe transition to 2-3x/week from then on.

 

[endwatcher]

I have to echo the dehydration remarks.
I ALWAYS drink water/electrolyte as a chaser to Kava, and suggest everyone drinking Kava to do the same

 

[ThePiper]

I can't seem to find coconut water within biking distance of my residence. What are some other options for adding electrolytes to my diet?

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

your natural diet probably has enough anyway...but if not coconut water, gatorade and some 'vitamin waters' also have electrolyte mixtures

 

[ThePiper]

Oh, I've been drinking at least a small bottle of Gatorade each day, so I'm probably good.

 

[ThePiper]

Well, I had the time of my life last night and the kava didn't let me down. I guess I'm one of the oddballs who has to deal with tolerance, not traditional tolerance where more of the substance is needed to achieve the effect, but more of a decrease in positive effects at any dose, which is very self regulating. By the way I took a tbs of Fiji Waka from BKH along with a teaspoon of instant and a kava candy later on, which was the perfect amount.

 

[Deleted User01]

Hey Piper, in reference to the nausea. It is recommended that you take a dose every 30-40 minutes instead of trying to horse it all down in one setting. I bottle my Kava and put it in the fridge. When I grab a bottle from the fridge, I see a layer of crud at the bottom, Kava Fudge. I usually shake the bottle to mix it up but you might try leaving the crud at the bottom and see if that helps. For reference, I use about 1.5 cups to make two 16oz bottles.

 

[Deactivated Account]

On nausea, I always chew a couple of Mylanta double strength antacids before I head of to the nakamals for the evenings. I also have a few of those fizzy soluble Vit B orange/lime beroccas or Hairy Lemons tabs daily.

Certainly helps me anyway.