Kava Physiology Kava, your liver, and you

[Roaddog]

well this is interesting .Much love. Roaddog....

 

[Deleted User01]

Maybe we can ask Chris about that.

 

[HeadHodge]

I'm not worried, I have a spare liver in the fridge. The thing I worry about the most is the electricity going out.

 

[fungaloid]

Fungaloid, that is very, very disturbing. Anything can cause Liver damage including Tylenol and Alcohol. Did she notice if they were combining them. I wonder if there are any statistics about the percent who have problems. And them compare it to the same statistics for Alchohol. Are you we talking about people who drink every day and how much do they drink. We need those statistics for sure. And don't forget, she may be telling you this just to discourage you from doing it just like anyone's mother would do. It would be nice if those stats were published somewhere.

maybe most folks' mother in laws would discourage usage, but not mine.
she is into entheogenic experiences with psychedelics, and supports
outright cannabis legalization. she's even used kava on numerous occasions
in a ritual setting, real old school hippie type.

she's still asleep today from working crazy nurse hours the past two days,
when she gets up i will ask her about frequency of use and see if she knew
how often the folks with issues used.

i would imagine that it is just like anything else, OK in moderation. if you are
at risk for liver problems, it probably increases the risk.

I don't know, I'm saying if there is increased incidence of liver damage in kava users in Hawaii I would have expected there to be papers written about it etc.

because just like the american indians, the natives of hawaii HATE white
people (haoles, pronounced howlies). because of that, i'm not surprised
at all that there is a lack of data on this.

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

Native Hawai'ians, like most of Polynesia, also suffers from a huge obesity problem. Obesity itself can damage your liver and cause jaundice. Add that to heavy kava consumption and most likely some alcohol consumption...among other things we would probably consider 'donts', and you can easily see the set up for disaster.
I'm not trying to claim kava is 100% safe.....what is ? But most times, when we ever hear bad things about kava...it usually turns out there are other unhealthy factors compounding the situation.
Polynesians generally do not have the knowledge, the care or the money to worry about healthy choices.

 

[Deleted User01]

I googled Hawaiian Liver Disease and got a useless site for a group that is "supposed" to monitor that. Then I found a case where 32 people got liver disease from Oxylyte Pro in Hawaii. To your point, we need better stats. If someone got liver disease, did they even drink Kava, Tylenol, Alcohol, nutrition, family history, obesity, and so no. The obesity angle I had thought about already because we have a lot of that in South Texas too. I guess everywhere anymore. I hope there is an early warning system before we turn into yellow eyed, reptile skinned, Kava Zombies. Man, I'm glad I sent the Special K Kava to you. I can't mention it without busting someones chops. You can use one tablespoon a year.

 

[Gourmet Hawaiian Kava]

I have reason to believe that this statement is false.

My mother in law lived in hawaii for 22 years, and made friends with a
lot of the indigenous islanders, she is also a nurse. She says that liver
damage (and jaundice) is common with long term kava use, even in
folks who only use the fresh root.

I don't think she has any reason to lie to me, she gains nothing from
telling me that it does cause liver problems.

I respectfully disagree with what you said. I mean no disrespect to your or your mom but I have been in kava for many many years and my family has been in kava longer.
I know many scientist and Doctors over here and being the President of the Hawaii Awa Council I keep up on things like this.
There is no increase in liver damage here in Hawaii due to Kava. If there were then we would be hearing from the FDA, we would hear more about this. There is nothing, nothing in the books and nothing that top Doctors and scientists here in Hawaii have found.
Can your mom cite some instances or references to these cases.? Thanks and aloha nui loa.

Chris

 

[Deleted User01]

Chris, the problem is that she saw cases of liver disease but I'm sure nobody was taking notes about all the contributing factors. It would be like pulling teeth to get that type of information unless the doctors did a good job of documenting it. Fungaloid, if you have access to any additional information that would be fantastic.

 

[Gourmet Hawaiian Kava]

Chris, the problem is that she saw cases of liver disease but I'm sure nobody was taking notes about all the contributing factors. It would be like pulling teeth to get that type of information unless the doctors did a good job of documenting it. Fungaloid, if you have access to any additional information that would be fantastic.

Hi Deleted User01, Doctors are required to document it, they have to look at all factors to try to find out why this happened and if Kava was ever mentioned in any of these cases then we would have heard about it, that is why I say respectfully disagree with that statement that Hawaii has had many cases from even water based extracts and fresh kava.
Consider how we heard of every other liver problem that may or may not have been dealing with kava, we know that there are a lot of other things that these people were taking that could also cause liver damage, most of the cases have been dismissed when it comes to being caused by kava.
Eve as Shakas mentioned there are so many Hawaiians over here that are well larger than they should be and that could be a problem for there liver as well as other things. I am just saying that there is nothing in the books here with liver damage and kava. Doctors are required to report things like that and since there is no reports of kava being suspected in any of the cases then that is why I take my stance and disagree with that statement as I have said.
Aloha.

Chris

 

[Deleted User01]

You are probably right. If Kava was guilty of causing anything at all, it would be Front page News and the FDA would have locked us down already. I wonder what part of Hawaii that was in and was it indigent people or not. Low income people have a high incidence of Liver problems and Diabetes and maybe Diabetes may have been a trigger.

 

[Steve T]

I remember back in 2002 when I took kava extract pills I read an article that said, paraphrased: "native Hawaiians will sometimes drink alcohol with kava which damages their liver, which is why you see some of them walking around with yellow skin."

Even though that article is antiquated there are a few things going on. First alcohol. Second, the misconception that dermopathy is jaundice. Third, bias against kava during those times.

 

[Crunked]

Pacific Islanders have high rates of obesity - which is also associated with non-alcoholic fatty liver disease - as do many teenagers. See here, here and here. Concluding that kava consumption is the cause of liver disease among a given population is confusing correlation with causation. My favorite example of this error is the study that found that men between 45 and 65 who did not shave regularly (but did not keep a beard) had a higher rate of heart disease, ergo not shaving causes heart disease.

On closer examination it turned out that those who did not shave regularly did not have a spouse or partner, lived alone, had poor nutrition and dental hygiene, avoided exercise, were depressed - I can't remember all the known risk factors - but it was not shaving that was selected as the cause!

 

[Roaddog]

@Crunked those Hawaiians like there Hawaii style pork, that could contribute to the being larger too. That's why Im a little big. I like pork too.

 

[Monkava'd]

Roaddog, i swear if you throw me a steak, instinct takes on a new identity hahaha; though I'm not exactly proud of that.
The paradigm of Animal based protein vs. Plant based proteins really racks the brain because of how such things can't be callously tossed around. On one hand we can look at this objectively and say that the cause of our brain development and growth was due to the upturn in animal based protein consumption and on the other hand we have in depth studies proving the reality of cancerous reactions to the body during and after the concurrent consumption of those same proteins.
When vegetable or any other manner of proteins are consumed the main argumentative statement proposed is that "your not getting the correct type of protein and only animal proteins will provide your bodily functions with the necessary developmental process".
Is this true? Well coincidentally, just as we have right and left political parties, these debates turn on a dime in dependence of what's more lucrative to the 'right/left' representative parties (green industry or in opposition mass animal production facilities) .
Sorry for the derailment but this train of thought minutely coincided with the discussion; I love to have my interest piqued in matters that may lend a hand to someone knowingly or unknowingly.

Finally- As you're probably already aware: Over consumption of water can kill you.
So even without an Ld50, everything should be taken in moderation and you'll be just fine.
ps. This includes the barbecued bovine I currently have a hate/love relationship with, it can.....and will kill me (just because I'm skinny means nothing) eventually by way of the diabetis monster if I were to for w/e reason incorporate 3 stakes into my daily life.
Use your kava wisely and unless you've made tudei/isa your go to stress cleanse (I highly caution against this) the worst thing that could possibly happen as per the norm is a creature from the black lagoon scaly skin dermopathy .

 

[infraredz]

Yep. that ole Dihydrogen monoxide can kill you