LFT Before and After 1 Year of Daily Noble Kava

[PepperyPyrone]

I received my Liver Function Test data today that I thought I would share. It's a good comparison because exactly a year ago I was in the process of drinking 6-8 light beers a night, and maybe some shots of hard liquor thrown in to top off my buzz, everyday. I found kava in January of 2017 and I have been drinking only noble kavas everyday the entire year, give or take a few days where I took a day or two off (Mostly 4-6 TBSP/day in water with AluBall, some trad preps). I did not drink kava the night before the blood draw, but did have some fine Hiwa the previous night, it was definitely in my system the morning of my doctors appointment. I have lost 12 pounds which places me in a perfect, healthy BMI, which I have maintained throughout the year (I attribute it to not drinking so much beer and possibly some unknown effects of kava, along with a lot of cardio exercise, which I also did consistently when I drank alcohol).

2016 / 2017
ALT 53 / ALT 50
AST 32 / AST 23
AST/ALT ratio is 0.5, where >2.0 = liver toxicity

Both have dropped !

Out of my entire full workup, the only thing that really stood out was that my LDL cholesterol did go up from 116 to 154 (The highest it has ever been was 132), Trigs and HDL stayed the same within normal range. @Zaphod That's a big jump which does baffle me as a scientist and was not expected considering I eat well, exercise, lost healthy weight, and don't pound beer anymore. Does anyone have any published data on a molecular mechanism for this? I've heard that kava can inhibit the metabolism of cholesterol, but it's not that simple in the complex chylomicron pathway leading to LDL particles. From what I have read in the current research for LDL, is that the data is very scattered and no emphasis can be placed on LDL alone anymore, as was the case 10 years ago when LDL was the big push for statin use. (my doctor even stated that my LDL corresponded to relatively low risk of heart attack or stroke in the next 10 years for my age 44). Comments and data are welcome.

Here is a good review of current day LDL research, last modified Nov 20, 2017.
https://www.docsopinion.com/2013/12/15/10-pitfalls-of-using-ldl-cholesterol-to-assess-risk/

I might see if by only drinking kava on the weekends it lowers my LDL. Maybe. Not really too worried about it. I love kava and I'm not going back to that alcohol lifestyle ever again. Having me some Squanch right now to celebrate the LFTs.

BULA !!!!!!!

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

I received my Liver Function Test data today that I thought I would share. It's a good comparison because exactly a year ago I was in the process of drinking 6-8 light beers a night, and maybe some shots of hard liquor thrown in to top off my buzz, everyday. I found kava in January of 2017 and I have been drinking only noble kavas everyday the entire year, give or take a few days where I took a day or two off (Mostly 4-6 TBSP/day in water with AluBall, some trad preps). I did not drink kava the night before the blood draw, but did have some fine Hiwa the previous night, it was definitely in my system the morning of my doctors appointment. I have lost 12 pounds which places me in a perfect, healthy BMI, which I have maintained throughout the year (I attribute it to not drinking so much beer and possibly some unknown effects of kava, along with a lot of cardio exercise, which I also did consistently when I drank alcohol).

2016 / 2017
ALT 53 / ALT 50
AST 32 / AST 23
AST/ALT ratio is 0.5, where >2.0 = liver toxicity

Both have dropped !

Out of my entire full workup, the only thing that really stood out was that my LDL cholesterol did go up from 116 to 154 (The highest it has ever been was 132), Trigs and HDL stayed the same within normal range. @Zaphod That's a big jump which does baffle me as a scientist and was not expected considering I eat well, exercise, lost healthy weight, and don't pound beer anymore. Does anyone have any published data on a molecular mechanism for this? I've heard that kava can inhibit the metabolism of cholesterol, but it's not that simple in the complex chylomicron pathway leading to LDL particles. From what I have read in the current research for LDL, is that the data is very scattered and no emphasis can be placed on LDL alone anymore, as was the case 10 years ago when LDL was the big push for statin use. (my doctor even stated that my LDL corresponded to relatively low risk of heart attack or stroke in the next 10 years for my age 44). Comments and data are welcome.

Here is a good review of current day LDL research, last modified Nov 20, 2017.
https://www.docsopinion.com/2013/12/15/10-pitfalls-of-using-ldl-cholesterol-to-assess-risk/

I might see if by only drinking kava on the weekends it lowers my LDL. Maybe. Not really too worried about it. I love kava and I'm not going back to that alcohol lifestyle ever again. Having me some Squanch right now to celebrate the LFTs.

BULA !!!!!!!

Interesting similarities we share. We both started drinking kava in January, drink noble every day, and used to drink beer all the time, and we both dropped our weight to healthy BMI. I didn't think I was a fluke but it's nice to see proof.

 

[kasa_balavu]

drink noble every day

Aren't you the gentleman with the iron gut who drinks cheap mystery kava?

 

[PepperyPyrone]

Aren't you the gentleman with the iron gut who drinks cheap mystery kava?

Haha, with that being said, I primarily drink GHK, Squanch, DNB, Kava Time, BKH, and have dabbled a bit with N@H.

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

Aren't you the gentleman with the iron gut who drinks cheap mystery kava?

It is true I have never suffered nausea from kava but I believe that is because I have never had a "bad" kava, nor a tudei. I do have rules for going easy when trying out any new kava, no matter the provenance, until I'm sure where I stand with it, and that has stood me in good stead. As for cheap and mystery, I admit I am not averse. My latest big gamble that paid off was buying a kg of that Made in Tonga 5-year old Vava'u. That stuff is just really nice Tongan root, comparable to any other really nice Tongan root we all know about.

Thing about kava, even mediocre kava is good kava. As long as it doesn't make you sick or is adulterated, there's just good kava, better kava, and great kava, and a few awesome kavas. But there's nothing inherently wrong with a kava being affordable, as long as it's an honest grog. I'm typing this while drinking Dua Na Bilo Vanuatu, which is delicious and exceedingly pleasant, a great breakfast kava, and with Amazon Prime shipped free to me at $36/lb. My wife regularly prefers as her daily grog a 1:1 blend of Mood & Mind Vanuatu and Best Fijian Lawena, both come in at $38/lb.

Some of the fine qualities of cheap and mystery kavas only appear in later washes and with the by-products, the flakes and the powders I make. I don't expect people to know of these virtues if they never experience them.

I'm coming to the conclusion that with most people's obsession with expensive top-shelf kavas, and only one or two washes, consumed only for producing immediately felt effects, that they are experiencing an excellent but highly truncated subset of what kava has to offer us. I like that, but I'm after other fish, as well. For me, 80% of the kava experience kicks in many many hours after I've drunk that last shell, in my body, systemically, and in my dreaming mind. For me kava is not a "happy hour," it's a lifestyle alternative. Also, perplexingly, it made my dick bigger, which is weird as heck.

 

[schatz]

I received my Liver Function Test data today that I thought I would share. It's a good comparison because exactly a year ago I was in the process of drinking 6-8 light beers a night, and maybe some shots of hard liquor thrown in to top off my buzz, everyday. I found kava in January of 2017 and I have been drinking only noble kavas everyday the entire year, give or take a few days where I took a day or two off (Mostly 4-6 TBSP/day in water with AluBall, some trad preps). I did not drink kava the night before the blood draw, but did have some fine Hiwa the previous night, it was definitely in my system the morning of my doctors appointment. I have lost 12 pounds which places me in a perfect, healthy BMI, which I have maintained throughout the year (I attribute it to not drinking so much beer and possibly some unknown effects of kava, along with a lot of cardio exercise, which I also did consistently when I drank alcohol).

2016 / 2017
ALT 53 / ALT 50
AST 32 / AST 23
AST/ALT ratio is 0.5, where >2.0 = liver toxicity

Both have dropped !

Out of my entire full workup, the only thing that really stood out was that my LDL cholesterol did go up from 116 to 154 (The highest it has ever been was 132), Trigs and HDL stayed the same within normal range. @Zaphod That's a big jump which does baffle me as a scientist and was not expected considering I eat well, exercise, lost healthy weight, and don't pound beer anymore. Does anyone have any published data on a molecular mechanism for this? I've heard that kava can inhibit the metabolism of cholesterol, but it's not that simple in the complex chylomicron pathway leading to LDL particles. From what I have read in the current research for LDL, is that the data is very scattered and no emphasis can be placed on LDL alone anymore, as was the case 10 years ago when LDL was the big push for statin use. (my doctor even stated that my LDL corresponded to relatively low risk of heart attack or stroke in the next 10 years for my age 44). Comments and data are welcome.

Here is a good review of current day LDL research, last modified Nov 20, 2017.
https://www.docsopinion.com/2013/12/15/10-pitfalls-of-using-ldl-cholesterol-to-assess-risk/

I might see if by only drinking kava on the weekends it lowers my LDL. Maybe. Not really too worried about it. I love kava and I'm not going back to that alcohol lifestyle ever again. Having me some Squanch right now to celebrate the LFTs.

BULA !!!!!!!

This sound very similar to my experiences thus far, except for the cholesterol raising on you. I wouldn't worry about it though, my naturopath says cholesterol is way exaggerated for the sake of selling us more statins and lowering cholesterol may be causing the increase in alzhiemer and cognitive decline according to him. So enjoy.

 

[schatz]

It is true I have never suffered nausea from kava but I believe that is because I have never had a "bad" kava, nor a tudei. I do have rules for going easy when trying out any new kava, no matter the provenance, until I'm sure where I stand with it, and that has stood me in good stead. As for cheap and mystery, I admit I am not averse. My latest big gamble that paid off was buying a kg of that Made in Tonga 5-year old Vava'u. That stuff is just really nice Tongan root, comparable to any other really nice Tongan root we all know about.

Thing about kava, even mediocre kava is good kava. As long as it doesn't make you sick or is adulterated, there's just good kava, better kava, and great kava, and a few awesome kavas. But there's nothing inherently wrong with a kava being affordable, as long as it's an honest grog. I'm typing this while drinking Dua Na Bilo Vanuatu, which is delicious and exceedingly pleasant, a great breakfast kava, and with Amazon Prime shipped free to me at $36/lb. My wife regularly prefers as her daily grog a 1:1 blend of Mood & Mind Vanuatu and Best Fijian Lawena, both come in at $38/lb.

Some of the fine qualities of cheap and mystery kavas only appear in later washes and with the by-products, the flakes and the powders I make. I don't expect people to know of these virtues if they never experience them.

I'm coming to the conclusion that with most people's obsession with expensive top-shelf kavas, and only one or two washes, consumed only for producing immediately felt effects, that they are experiencing an excellent but highly truncated subset of what kava has to offer us. I like that, but I'm after other fish, as well. For me, 80% of the kava experience kicks in many many hours after I've drunk that last shell, in my body, systemically, and in my dreaming mind. For me kava is not a "happy hour," it's a lifestyle alternative. Also, perplexingly, it made my dick bigger, which is weird as heck.

I have not experienced the same as you unfortunately, have actually gained a couple pounds and went down alittle in size I think however. Recently I revisisited my Dua Na Bilo and was quite surprised at the ensuing results. Since Nakamal has not been taking orders for stone I and a friend have been scrambling to find a replacement. He is a chronic and severe alcoholic so it is pretty important that he has strong kava to keep him off booze, Really enjoying the fijan kavas lately so it was a nice surprise. I jus ordered the Taveuni waka from Bula as it is from the same region or island and the results were very similar although more expensive. I have not ordered from Judd at Bula for ayear or so and was happy with the fast shipping this time . from Thursday to Monday at my door in Az. so all is well. Also orered the Nagol noble for the first time based on your recommendation so will let you know how that goes. Thanks also good to hear that the mood and mind kava is acceptable because my buddy informed me last week that he ordered that peticular kava from Amazon. At first I cringed at the idea of ordering kava from a non dedicated vendor and told him I have never heard of any reviews or opinions on their kava and good luck with that. But it's good to hear that you have used it and vouch for it, will let him know.

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

I have not experienced the same as you unfortunately, have actually gained a couple pounds and went down alittle in size I think however. Recently I revisisited my Dua Na Bilo and was quite surprised at the ensuing results. Since Nakamal has not been taking orders for stone I and a friend have been scrambling to find a replacement. He is a chronic and severe alcoholic so it is pretty important that he has strong kava to keep him off booze, Really enjoying the fijan kavas lately so it was a nice surprise. I jus ordered the Taveuni waka from Bula as it is from the same region or island and the results were very similar although more expensive. I have not ordered from Judd at Bula for ayear or so and was happy with the fast shipping this time . from Thursday to Monday at my door in Az. so all is well. Also orered the Nagol noble for the first time based on your recommendation so will let you know how that goes. Thanks also good to hear that the mood and mind kava is acceptable because my buddy informed me last week that he ordered that peticular kava from Amazon. At first I cringed at the idea of ordering kava from a non dedicated vendor and told him I have never heard of any reviews or opinions on their kava and good luck with that. But it's good to hear that you have used it and vouch for it, will let him know.

I have purchased many pounds of M&M, with various different batch numbers. It's always been acceptable. Maybe not so great on its own in terms of flavour, a lot better blended with some lawena, IMO, and my wife's. Don't get me wrong, it's ok on its own, acceptable, but tastes a lot better with some lawena.

As for the DnB Vanuatu, I think it is wonderful, in many ways. But strong it ain't. I think most of the disappointment people have had with it come down to that: they expecta real Vanuatu grind to taste bad and be really strong and heavy. Well, this stuff tastes great and isn't strong and is heady. It's more like a decent Samoan than anything else.

 

[tonyd]

I've had the same experience with the LDL cholesterol increasing. Over the past 2 years LDL has gone from 91 to 118 to 154 to 188 most recently. Oddly the HDL and TRIGS have all been good and the LFT's have always stayed in the 20's which is really good. Also the GGT, another liver marker which is rarely tested for in most labwork, was elevated the last test.

 

[schatz]

I have purchased many pounds of M&M, with various different batch numbers. It's always been acceptable. Maybe not so great on its own in terms of flavour, a lot better blended with some lawena, IMO, and my wife's. Don't get me wrong, it's ok on its own, acceptable, but tastes a lot better with some lawena.

As for the DnB Vanuatu, I think it is wonderful, in many ways. But strong it ain't. I think most of the disappointment people have had with it come down to that: they expecta real Vanuatu grind to taste bad and be really strong and heavy. Well, this stuff tastes great and isn't strong and is heady. It's more like a decent Samoan than anything else.

I was referring to the dua na bilo,fijan waka, I didn't realize they had a Vantuan. The Fijan waka is very strong for me, I will stay away from the Vanatuan kava, thanks.

 

[PepperyPyrone]

This sound very similar to my experiences thus far, except for the cholesterol raising on you. I wouldn't worry about it though, my naturopath says cholesterol is way exaggerated for the sake of selling us more statins and lowering cholesterol may be causing the increase in alzhiemer and cognitive decline according to him. So enjoy.

Yes exactly, the pharma marketing machine is strong. I know because I used to work for that machine in the statin market. Everything was centered around lower LDL is better, period. But now reviews like I quoted bring up a lot of the disparity in the clinical trials around the world, not just the US pharma studies. The take home message is that LDL is more confusing than is worth the mental investment as a single biomarker for multiple cardiovascular outcomes. It is also known that really low levels of LDL <50-30 causes a decrease in white matter in the brain (seen on an MRI) which leads to cognitive decline. This is one of those findings that is generally swept under the rug in the pharma world. Sorry people but your cells actually NEED cholesterol for membrane fluidity, nerve conduction, and hormone production.

 

[PepperyPyrone]

I've had the same experience with the LDL cholesterol increasing. Over the past 2 years LDL has gone from 91 to 118 to 154 to 188 most recently. Oddly the HDL and TRIGS have all been good and the LFT's have always stayed in the 20's which is really good. Also the GGT, another liver marker which is rarely tested for in most labwork, was elevated the last test.

I wonder if there is a plateau or if the LDL will continue to increase with longer kava exposure? Anyone ever see a equilibrium point for kava induced raising of LDL? I don't mind a moderate increase but I do not want to have LDLs in the very high range.

 

[verticity]

I received my Liver Function Test data today that I thought I would share. It's a good comparison because exactly a year ago I was in the process of drinking 6-8 light beers a night, and maybe some shots of hard liquor thrown in to top off my buzz, everyday. I found kava in January of 2017 and I have been drinking only noble kavas everyday the entire year, give or take a few days where I took a day or two off (Mostly 4-6 TBSP/day in water with AluBall, some trad preps). I did not drink kava the night before the blood draw, but did have some fine Hiwa the previous night, it was definitely in my system the morning of my doctors appointment. I have lost 12 pounds which places me in a perfect, healthy BMI, which I have maintained throughout the year (I attribute it to not drinking so much beer and possibly some unknown effects of kava, along with a lot of cardio exercise, which I also did consistently when I drank alcohol).

2016 / 2017
ALT 53 / ALT 50
AST 32 / AST 23
AST/ALT ratio is 0.5, where >2.0 = liver toxicity

Both have dropped !

Out of my entire full workup, the only thing that really stood out was that my LDL cholesterol did go up from 116 to 154 (The highest it has ever been was 132), Trigs and HDL stayed the same within normal range. @Zaphod That's a big jump which does baffle me as a scientist and was not expected considering I eat well, exercise, lost healthy weight, and don't pound beer anymore. Does anyone have any published data on a molecular mechanism for this? I've heard that kava can inhibit the metabolism of cholesterol, but it's not that simple in the complex chylomicron pathway leading to LDL particles. From what I have read in the current research for LDL, is that the data is very scattered and no emphasis can be placed on LDL alone anymore, as was the case 10 years ago when LDL was the big push for statin use. (my doctor even stated that my LDL corresponded to relatively low risk of heart attack or stroke in the next 10 years for my age 44). Comments and data are welcome.

Here is a good review of current day LDL research, last modified Nov 20, 2017.
https://www.docsopinion.com/2013/12/15/10-pitfalls-of-using-ldl-cholesterol-to-assess-risk/

I might see if by only drinking kava on the weekends it lowers my LDL. Maybe. Not really too worried about it. I love kava and I'm not going back to that alcohol lifestyle ever again. Having me some Squanch right now to celebrate the LFTs.

BULA !!!!!!!

Looks good. Though I think you need to specify the reference ranges, because they can vary with different labs.

I'm not sure about the significance of AST/ALT ratio in the case of kava. According to wikipedia an elevated ratio is characteristic of alcoholic liver damage, but in the case of liver damage caused by something else, that might not be the case: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AST/ALT_ratio . (Also to be very clear and redundant, I don't believe that kava does cause liver damage...)

Also I don't think the ratio would matter at all if both the numbers are within the standard range: only in the case where one or both are elevated you might look at the ratio to get a hint about the cause.

 

[PepperyPyrone]

Looks good. Though I think you need to specify the reference ranges, because they can vary with different labs.

I'm not sure about the significance of AST/ALT ratio in the case of kava. According to wikipedia an elevated ratio is characteristic of alcoholic liver damage, but in the case of liver damage caused by something else, that might not be the case: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AST/ALT_ratio . (Also to be very clear and redundant, I don't believe that kava does cause liver damage...)

Also I don't think the ratio would matter at all if both the numbers are within the standard range: only in the case where one or both are elevated you might look at the ratio to get a hint about the cause.

The units of measurement were U/L, for AST (Standard range <35U/L) and ALT (<55 U/L). For the ratio, yes you are correct. Just thought I would throw that out there. @verticity do you have any published data on kava and the cholesterol pathway, specifically LDL?

 

[verticity]

The units of measurement were U/L, for AST (Standard range <35U/L) and ALT (<55 U/L). For the ratio, yes you are correct. Just thought I would throw that out there. @verticity do you have any published data on kava and the cholesterol pathway, specifically LDL?

The Aboriginal studies by Clough did claim to show elevated LDL and total cholesterol in kava users, but that study was of a population with generally poor health.
https://www.nature.com/articles/1601921
I'm not aware of any other studies on that.