"Love/Hate" Relationship with Kava

[TrevC]

IS there an amount (of dry root material), in your opinion, that you find delivers more consistent results?

A while back I posted that I thought I'd figured things out with regards to absorption and gut health, and why things were no longer affecting me.

Quick recap: I was taking K@ in low doses (quit cold-turkey, stayed off a while, then returned with scheduled small doses) and it went well for a while. Then it all at once "stopped".
I expected that to be a tolerance thing. But Kava did the same thing, and THAT got my attention, because Kava isn't the same.
So I went to a doctor and had multiple tests run. Things pointed to SIBO (Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth) and I began a course of natural antibiotics and gut treatment. (Allicin/garlic, oregano oil, echanacea+goldenseal, encapsulated peppermint, etc.) and surprisingly I began to feel different.
I'd hit the gut bacteria hard in the morning, then follow up before bed with a soil-based pro-biotic to replenish the good bacteria. Just before all this, I had also started adding MCT oil to my diet.

One morning everything hit me like a ton of bricks. Small K@ dose reminded me of one of the first times I took it, and lunchtime Kava made me think I needed to sit down somewhere.
It MORE than nixed my anxiety.

I had become accustomed to getting "low" every week or two. But now I'm feeling consistently "up" and positive.

My go-to Kava is KWK Loa Waka.

An average "dose" for me is 30 grams knead-and-strain.
I've had times where I would just use 15 grams (around 2 TBSP) in an AluBall and it would surprise me, making me think "less is more".

But I've read on here before "Sometimes less is more, and sometimes less is less."

IS there an amount, in your opinion, that you find more consistent?
ie. Do you find you get better day-to-day results when you're taking reasonable/low amounts, or when you're going with higher amounts?
And I would be glad to know your amounts and which Kava you use.

I've probably BEEN at the point where I should just give in to an antidepressant like Wellbutrin. But I've been avoiding it for a while, in favor of leaves and roots.
Any guidance in consistent Kava use would be so very much appreciated.

 

[Halibut_Acid]

So I have found my balance with kava, but the only way I can give advice on how to get there is to listen to your body and drink it when it feels like the right thing to do. If you aren't sure, then don't. For me keeping a consistently low level of kava in my body seems to work. What I would recommend for gut health is kimchi. Kimchi has been nothing short of life changing for me. A large portion of our neurotransmitters are created by gut microflora so it is important to keep good bacteria in the gut

 

[AlexisReal]

So I have found my balance with kava, but the only way I can give advice on how to get there is to listen to your body and drink it when it feels like the right thing to do. If you aren't sure, then don't. For me keeping a consistently low level of kava in my body seems to work. What I would recommend for gut health is kimchi. Kimchi has been nothing short of life changing for me. A large portion of our neurotransmitters are created by gut microflora so it is important to keep good bacteria in the gut

Indeed, serotonin is synthesised in the gut, and likely or surely depends largely on healthy gut bacterial status.

@TrevC oregano oil is fantastic, life saving stuff.

Regarding garlic, the most powerful, effective and medicinal way to consume it, way above any supplement form- is raw, and most importantly- Organic- Garlic. Non organic garlic is barely 10% as antimicrobial or medicinal.

But Allicin is not present in a garlic clove. It has to be crushed, after which a chemical enzyme reaction takes place. It's advised to leave the crushed garlic for 10 minutes, for the full conversion into and formation of Allicin.

But potency does drop off. One hour later and there is a significant reduction in Allicin levels.

Raw garlic on an empty stomach is very detoxing to the stomach. Garlic is also a powerful prebiotic, so it will feed your SBO's.

Raw garlic also is a very strong potentiator of all psychoactive substances.

I believe oregano oil also works as a potentiator. Both raise hydrochloric acid in the stomach too.

 

[Groggy]

IS there an amount (of dry root material), in your opinion, that you find delivers more consistent results?

A while back I posted that I thought I'd figured things out with regards to absorption and gut health, and why things were no longer affecting me.

Quick recap: I was taking K@ in low doses (quit cold-turkey, stayed off a while, then returned with scheduled small doses) and it went well for a while. Then it all at once "stopped".
I expected that to be a tolerance thing. But Kava did the same thing, and THAT got my attention, because Kava isn't the same.
So I went to a doctor and had multiple tests run. Things pointed to SIBO (Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth) and I began a course of natural antibiotics and gut treatment. (Allicin/garlic, oregano oil, echanacea+goldenseal, encapsulated peppermint, etc.) and surprisingly I began to feel different.
I'd hit the gut bacteria hard in the morning, then follow up before bed with a soil-based pro-biotic to replenish the good bacteria. Just before all this, I had also started adding MCT oil to my diet.

One morning everything hit me like a ton of bricks. Small K@ dose reminded me of one of the first times I took it, and lunchtime Kava made me think I needed to sit down somewhere.
It MORE than nixed my anxiety.

I had become accustomed to getting "low" every week or two. But now I'm feeling consistently "up" and positive.

My go-to Kava is KWK Loa Waka.

An average "dose" for me is 30 grams knead-and-strain.
I've had times where I would just use 15 grams (around 2 TBSP) in an AluBall and it would surprise me, making me think "less is more".

But I've read on here before "Sometimes less is more, and sometimes less is less."

IS there an amount, in your opinion, that you find more consistent?
ie. Do you find you get better day-to-day results when you're taking reasonable/low amounts, or when you're going with higher amounts?
And I would be glad to know your amounts and which Kava you use.

I've probably BEEN at the point where I should just give in to an antidepressant like Wellbutrin. But I've been avoiding it for a while, in favor of leaves and roots.
Any guidance in consistent Kava use would be so very much appreciated.

I drink kava more or less everyday, I think it's hard to give advice on this because we are all different and react differently to kava based just not on amounts and types but also mindset, geographical location, life, everything is uniquely different for all of us. I will say this, drinking quality kava over budget kava makes a difference but it's only one small aspect.

For me, I don't drink kava with any expectations but I always get a sense of well-being when I do. I drink kava more or less everyday around this time, sometimes later before dinner and others, just at night. Really depends on my schedule or mood. I find it best to go with the flow, kava is a welcomed companion in my life, so that's how I look at it.

I don't need to tell you types of kava to try, you already know all the stuff around the forums, plus I change my mind all the time. Currently enjoying Fresh Hawaiian kavas and always love some Fijians. I always use the same amount, 1/3ish of a cup of dry root to about 2-3 cups of water (I never really measure.)

 

[TheKavaFlow]

Ah, yes. I'm a big fan of crushing up garlic and throwing that in my grog. For even better absorption, use milk instead of water. Milky, garlicky, earthy pepper water is just the ticket for a relaxing night! (just kidding, that sounds horrific)

I'm a bit of a hard head, so I tend to use 2/3 cup of kava leveled off in ~2 cups of warm water and then another cup or two of ice to cool it off before consuming, 3-4 times a week. It's relatively consistent for me at this point, but I've found the largest variable, by far, is the TYPE of food I've recently digested. If I eat a ton of simple carbs like breads or tortillas(I might not be Mexican, but I wish I was), I can't have kava for something crazy, like 5 or 6 hours. So on nights where I want to have some kava, I'll have LIGHT dinner around 5:30, and then start drinking grog around 9 or 10.

 

[BobBriggs]

Just a warning, but taking Allicin can make you smell of garlic. I got asked a couple of times if I had just had garlic.

Personally, I take at least 30g of kava and closer to 50g. But I live in Australia where the Kava available, even pre-Covid, probably is weaker than the well known brands.

 

[AlexisReal]

Ah, yes. I'm a big fan of crushing up garlic and throwing that in my grog. For even better absorption, use milk instead of water. Milky, garlicky, earthy pepper water is just the ticket for a relaxing night! (just kidding, that sounds horrific)

I'm a bit of a hard head, so I tend to use 2/3 cup of kava leveled off in ~2 cups of warm water and then another cup or two of ice to cool it off before consuming, 3-4 times a week. It's relatively consistent for me at this point, but I've found the largest variable, by far, is the TYPE of food I've recently digested. If I eat a ton of simple carbs like breads or tortillas(I might not be Mexican, but I wish I was), I can't have kava for something crazy, like 5 or 6 hours. So on nights where I want to have some kava, I'll have LIGHT dinner around 5:30, and then start drinking grog around 9 or 10.

No I'm not speaking at all about actually adding raw garlic to the kava mixture I'm talking about taking it entirely separately on an empty stomach.

Raw garlic can be quite a difficult thing to digest for some people and I have personally found that drinking kava afterwards significantly aids in the digestion and processing of the garlic.

But no way would I add garlic in any form to my lovely kava. Sunflower lecithin only, but not every time.

With the sunflower lecithin, you ALWAYS get a Guinness like froth on top. And I swear it potentiates the effects especially in the blender method where it causes the whole mixture to emulsify so as to be really hard work to strain through the strainer bag.

I can eat a 40 gram packet of Trafo Potato Chips, and still get ample effects from kava myself.

Or some nut butter and coconut oil.

 

[TheKavaFlow]

No I'm not speaking at all about actually adding raw garlic to the kava mixture I'm talking about taking it entirely separately on an empty stomach.

Raw garlic can be quite a difficult thing to digest for some people and I have personally found that drinking kava afterwards significantly aids in the digestion and processing of the garlic.

But no way would I add garlic in any form to my lovely kava. Sunflower lecithin only, but not every time.

With the sunflower lecithin, you ALWAYS get a Guinness like froth on top. And I swear it potentiates the effects especially in the blender method where it causes the whole mixture to emulsify so as to be really hard work to strain through the strainer bag.

I can eat a 40 gram packet of Trafo Potato Chips, and still get ample effects from kava myself.

Or some nut butter and coconut oil.

Yea I was just kidding around, I didn't think you insinuated that at all. I used to use lecithin myself, but then I just became super lazy.

Can we discuss how you're able to actually swallow a raw clove of crushed garlic? That's WILD. I'm not sure I could force myself to do that!

 

[AlexisReal]

Yea I was just kidding around, I didn't think you insinuated that at all. I used to use lecithin myself, but then I just became super lazy.

Can we discuss how you're able to actually swallow a raw clove of crushed garlic? That's WILD. I'm not sure I could force myself to do that!

Hi. Sorry, I misunderstood YOU then in that case lol! Was having a majorly tough day yesterday, on top of a majorly tough time.

I didn't even register I don't think, that it was yourself making the joke, or else I may have twigged, having already marked you down in my mind as being pretty savvy, but I wasn't on the ball at all!

So yes indeed, swallowing crushed raw garlic is certainly not something I do for fun. Purely medicinal and health support reasons. Organic garlic is actually a very powerful systemic medicine and supports many major bodily systems and functions.

Myself, I have had virtually no immune system as a result of Lyme Disease since 2005, and have had permanent recurring multiple respitatory infections ever since, mostly 4 to 5 at a time. With very severe symptoms.

The raw garlic on a daily basis is a truly indispensible weapon for me. I would not be able to cope with the infections and symptoms without it.

It is a magic bullet for infections in lungs and stomach, as well as a strong detoxer.

But I'm not talking about "a" clove of garlic, but 3 or 4 big cloves. I use one of those garlic grating plates with a brush, which makes it into a minced paste, which is both more effective due to much greater surface area and more complete crushing to enable the fullest chemical enzyme reaction process to occur for maximum Allicin conversion, but also it's really the only way my very sensitive stomach can handle it, without all those huge chunks most garlic crushers make with their big holes.

It does cause some very extreme nausea very temporarily upon swallowing, but this passes quickly in less than 4 minutes.

At the same time, a ton of mucus is instantly expectorated from my lungs and upper airways, bringing sunbstantial relief to my breathing.

I noticed a long time ago, when I take the raw garlic with any psychoactive herb, there is almost a doubling of the potency of the herb or psychoactive.

But that also is not what motivates me to do it, purely for antimicrobial and respiratory support, for which it works truly wonders. I wish I did not need/ was not actually so dependant on it, but it really is a daily must in my case, like it or not.

But it is also a very underestimated, broad range powerful medicine too.

The lecitihin ceftainly helps I feel with a better extraction and maybe even increases active bioavailability in Kava. I always add it to the blender method, and the strainer bag shake in a jar, but not always to my Aluballs.

I don't see it as fundamantal in such cases at all, straight Kava works very well for me on it's own too. But like I said above, if I add sunflower lecithin to the aluball, I will always get a thick frothy top, and without it, no top froth at all.

Thanks for joking with me and sorry for being so slow there lol!

 

[TrevC]

I very much appreciate the wonderful replies, everyone!

 

[Herbalwise-Kava]

Ah, yes. I'm a big fan of crushing up garlic and throwing that in my grog. For even better absorption, use milk instead of water. Milky, garlicky, earthy pepper water is just the ticket for a relaxing night! (just kidding, that sounds horrific)

I'm a bit of a hard head, so I tend to use 2/3 cup of kava leveled off in ~2 cups of warm water and then another cup or two of ice to cool it off before consuming, 3-4 times a week. It's relatively consistent for me at this point, but I've found the largest variable, by far, is the TYPE of food I've recently digested. If I eat a ton of simple carbs like breads or tortillas(I might not be Mexican, but I wish I was), I can't have kava for something crazy, like 5 or 6 hours. So on nights where I want to have some kava, I'll have LIGHT dinner around 5:30, and then start drinking grog around 9 or 10.

I've found a half glass or more of peppermint tea, 1/2-1 hour before consuming kava to be a potentiator, of sorts. I suspect it's because peppermint tea increases stomach emptying. I've DEFINITELY found kava to be more effective on an empty stomach. Anyone else noticed this?

 

[Michael Nielsen]

I've found a half glass or more of peppermint tea, 1/2-1 hour before consuming kava to be a potentiator, of sorts. I suspect it's because peppermint tea increases stomach emptying. I've DEFINITELY found kava to be more effective on an empty stomach. Anyone else noticed this?

People are advised to drink kava on empty stomach.

 

[TrevC]

Update for anyone with gut issues who may be using Kava and K@:

After taking K@ via toss-and-wash for a few years, we* began soaking it in a Ball jar of ~160 degree water.
Let it sit for a while (at least 10 minutes) and by the time I take it I still usually have to add some ice or cold water.

For the first time in over a year I went an entire month with no really low days. Able to function just fine every day - some days the motivation is just way stronger.
None of the crippling sense-of-dread I was feeling 2 or 3 times a week. Really thankful for this change.

* I've been on a slow blind taper for a while now, and still going down, slowly. My wife is tapering me down, and instructed not to tell me which days or how much.
Psychologically, this is really helpful as I'm not anticipating "Oh man, I dropped 1/2 gram today... probably not going to be as motivated."