New user concerned about toss & wash medium grind

[CisWhiteMale]

Hello all,

I recently became aware of Kava during a search for something to relieve anxiety for interviews and a door-to-door sales job, and for sleep. I was desperate to find something because I used to take clnonazepam 2 mg / day but I recently moved into a sober living community so that currently isn't an option. So far I've tried two 60 pill bottles of kava pills containing 75mg kavalactones per pill. I've found that I have to take about 15 pills for good enough effects, so 1,125 mg kavalactones.

Today I will receive 1/2 lb of GHK Moi. Because I live in a sober living, I really don't want to be engaging in prepping the kava and plan on using the toss & wash method only. Is it okay to toss and wash the medium grind for long periods of time, anyone actually have success with this or is it critical to get micronized? I wanted to get the medium grind simply because it is soooooo much cheaper. For those of you who have toss & washed the medium grind, what would be a good dose in tablespoons (not sure if it's the same amount as if used in the straining prep method or if you can use less). Does anyone know how many mg kavalactones would be in a tablespoon of medium grind Moi? Also, I'm wondering how long do the anti-anxiety effects last for you guys from a solid dose. For example if I took a good sized dose do you think I would be good for 5 hours doing my door-to-door sales job? Thanks in advance I know it's a lot of questions but couldn't find a whole lot of info from people using the toss and wash method with the medium grind.

Edit: One last question, and I couldn't find this info ANYWHERE: How often can you redose? I'm wondering about moderate doses - is it like K@ where you have to wait 8 hours or is more like alcohol which you can keep topping up. I'm wondering if I can take multiple doses per day for my job, thanks.

 

[TheKavaSociety]

While it won't kill you, it's not a good idea. You will likely get unpleasant GI issues and devep kava dermopathy very soon.

I would recommend considering micronised kava, but if it's too expensive, then perhaps you could think about purchasing the famous Aluball kava making kit? You can make kava in just a few minutes.

 

[verticity]

Like @Henry said, the toss and wash method is likely to give you gas or stomach upset. For clandestine preparation you could try getting some knee high stockings or equivalent, and an empty soda bottle. Go in the bathroom, lock the door. Wrap 1 or 2 tbs of powder in a piece of stocking material, secure with rubber bands. Fill the soda bottle halfway with hot water, and stuff the wad of wrapped kava into the bottle. Shake for 2 minutes. Enjoy.
Mo'i is a "heady" kava, which means it is relatively short acting. The acute effects last for about 1-2 hours, although you may still feel some mild anxiety relief for several hours after the acute effects wear off.
Unlike krat, kava does not cause dependence or addiction, so you can drink as much as you want in that respect. However, if you drink to much you will get unpleasant effects like dizziness and nausea, so take it slowly until you understand how it effects you. If you drink way too much, you could even appear to be drunk (uncoordination, slurred speech, etc) which would be bad in your current setting.

 

[CisWhiteMale]

Okay, thanks for the replies. I just got the Moi. This stuff is much, much thicker than I thought - I was expecting a powder, and it tastes like dirty cocaine!!!. I can see why you would want to prep this. I'm either gonna try the prep or get the micronized next. Would you say the micronized is a lot more suitable for toss & wash, and does it cause dermotherapy too, or not as much?

 

[verticity]

Micronized is basically designed for toss n wash: no prep is required.
It's interesting that you say it tastes like "dirty cocaine" That is probably because cocaine and kavain (one of the active ingredients in kava) are local anesthetics, so the numbing effect might make the mouth feel similar. My preferred description of the taste is "toothpaste and barnyard"

 

[CisWhiteMale]

I don't have any stockings ATM. Do you know if I could shake 2 Tbs in a 16oz bottle of water, then poor over a coffee filter to strain out the reminants, or is a coffee filter too fine?

 

[verticity]

I don't have any stockings ATM. Do you know if I could shake 2 Tbs in a 16oz bottle of water, then poor over a coffee filter to strain out the reminants, or is a coffee filter too fine?

A coffee filter would be too fine. I see you are a "CisWhiteMale" so...um...I understand why you wouldn't have stockings on hand. Anyway you want something with a porosity similar to a stocking. A t-shirt or men's sock would probably be too thick.. Cheesecloth, maybe...

 

[theGrogfather]

@CisWhiteMale You could try the blender method, it's pretty quick and simple.... Should be a few threads on it here. However, IMO, traditional prep is the most effective way to make a strong grog.

 

[Groggy]

I think as far as convenience the aluball is the way to go, like @Henry said, it's discreet & people will just think you are drinking a chocolate milkshake

 

[verticity]

The AluBall is a bit noisy, though... Or you could just AluBall it in the bathroom, and if anyone asks what the heck you were doing in there, simply act embarrassed and reply "Sometimes a man needs to be alone". They will never bug you about it again.

 

[HeadHodge]

Hello all,

I recently became aware of Kava during a search for something to relieve anxiety for interviews and a door-to-door sales job, and for sleep. I was desperate to find something because I used to take clnonazepam 2 mg / day but I recently moved into a sober living community so that currently isn't an option. So far I've tried two 60 pill bottles of kava pills containing 75mg kavalactones per pill. I've found that I have to take about 15 pills for good enough effects, so 1,125 mg kavalactones.

Today I will receive 1/2 lb of GHK Moi. Because I live in a sober living, I really don't want to be engaging in prepping the kava and plan on using the toss & wash method only. Is it okay to toss and wash the medium grind for long periods of time, anyone actually have success with this or is it critical to get micronized? I wanted to get the medium grind simply because it is soooooo much cheaper. For those of you who have toss & washed the medium grind, what would be a good dose in tablespoons (not sure if it's the same amount as if used in the straining prep method or if you can use less). Does anyone know how many mg kavalactones would be in a tablespoon of medium grind Moi? Also, I'm wondering how long do the anti-anxiety effects last for you guys from a solid dose. For example if I took a good sized dose do you think I would be good for 5 hours doing my door-to-door sales job? Thanks in advance I know it's a lot of questions but couldn't find a whole lot of info from people using the toss and wash method with the medium grind.

Edit: One last question, and I couldn't find this info ANYWHERE: How often can you redose? I'm wondering about moderate doses - is it like K@ where you have to wait 8 hours or is more like alcohol which you can keep topping up. I'm wondering if I can take multiple doses per day for my job, thanks.

Welcome... My recommendation: Toss 'n Wash Micronized Kava. Less gastric distress and better lactone efficiency.

 

[CisWhiteMale]

Welcome... My recommendation: Toss 'n Wash Micronized Kava. Less gastric distress and better lactone efficiency.

I think this is what I'm gonna do next, partly because I'm really accustomed to toss & washing from my K@ experience. I wanted to ask you guys though: I'm shocked at how much material you have to ingest to get an effect. I put down over 4 tbs earlier - 2 heaping tbs toss & wash and 2 in a blender with some oj, strained in a normal collindar, so 4 tbs just to get a subtle effect. With K@ I can toss & wash 1 tbs and be lit off my ass. I LOVE benzos and the way I feel at the peak of my 4 tbs experience but is the experience gonna start to get better and am I gonna be able to use a lot less once reverse tolerance sets in? I'm very familiar with reverse tolerance with K@ but how much improvement can I expect to see and how long will it take with kava? I couldn't imagine having to take 4 tbs every time...

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

We don't know how many mgs of kavalactones are in a single tablespoon, although I'm sure we could do a rough estimate. One batch of kava doesn't necessarily have the same overall kavalactone content as the next.
There's a member here who proudly drinks toss n wash medium grind, he's also posted pictures of having the gnarliest dermopathy from it.

 

[Ligermeat]

I think this is what I'm gonna do next, partly because I'm really accustomed to toss & washing from my K@ experience. I wanted to ask you guys though: I'm shocked at how much material you have to ingest to get an effect. I put down over 4 tbs earlier - 2 heaping tbs toss & wash and 2 in a blender with some oj, strained in a normal collindar, so 4 tbs just to get a subtle effect. With K@ I can toss & wash 1 tbs and be lit off my ass. I LOVE benzos and the way I feel at the peak of my 4 tbs experience but is the experience gonna start to get better and am I gonna be able to use a lot less once reverse tolerance sets in? I'm very familiar with reverse tolerance with K@ but how much improvement can I expect to see and how long will it take with kava? I couldn't imagine having to take 4 tbs every time...

4 tbs is actually a pretty modest dose for many of us. If you just aren't comfortable consuming that much root, then you might really like the micro, because you use much less per dose.

 

[verticity]

I think this is what I'm gonna do next, partly because I'm really accustomed to toss & washing from my K@ experience. I wanted to ask you guys though: I'm shocked at how much material you have to ingest to get an effect. I put down over 4 tbs earlier - 2 heaping tbs toss & wash and 2 in a blender with some oj, strained in a normal collindar, so 4 tbs just to get a subtle effect. With K@ I can toss & wash 1 tbs and be lit off my ass. I LOVE benzos and the way I feel at the peak of my 4 tbs experience but is the experience gonna start to get better and am I gonna be able to use a lot less once reverse tolerance sets in? I'm very familiar with reverse tolerance with K@ but how much improvement can I expect to see and how long will it take with kava? I couldn't imagine having to take 4 tbs every time...

I would expect/hope your tolerance will decrease with time. For me, 4 tbs of Mo'i would have a pretty potent effect. Some folks do find that "reverse tolerance" is more prominent with the headier kavas, such as Mo'i. Another thing to consider is that if you are used to harder stuff, kava might seem relatively mild: that's because it is mild compared to harder stuff. That's actually a big part of it's appeal for many of us.

 

[verticity]

But as far as dosage, I typically consume 8 tablespoons, spread out over the course of several hours during a typical kava "session", so 4 tbs is really not a huge amount. Some people use as little as 2 tbsp, and some people use up to 16 tbsp. A lot of it depends on your personal body chemistry.
Also to maximize your kava experience, drink it on an empty stomach--this is very important--and then follow up with spicy and/or fatty food.

 

[verticity]

We don't know how many mgs of kavalactones are in a single tablespoon, although I'm sure we could do a rough estimate. One batch of kava doesn't necessarily have the same overall kavalactone content as the next.
There's a member here who proudly drinks toss n wash medium grind, he's also posted pictures of having the gnarliest dermopathy from it.

A tablespoon of kava weighs about 8 grams.
The percentage of kavalactones in kava powder is typically 5-10%.
That works out to 400-800 mg of kavalactones per tablespoon of kava powder.
However, you also have to account for the fact that not all of that is bioavailable. Some of the KLs will be lost in whatever extraction process you use. Even if you use toss-and-wash, you can't digest the hard fibrous material known as the "makas", so the KLs in those would not be absorbed by your body.
So 400-800 mg of kavalactones is an upper limit on what it is possible to extract from a tablespoon of kava. The bioavailable amount is certainly significantly less.

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

4 tablespoons of micro or medium all at once would have me flying lol. Yes it will keep getting more intesne .. Im glad you don't take krat anymore. It was my lowest point ... which is pretty good but still.. lol

 

[CisWhiteMale]

A tablespoon of kava weighs about 8 grams.
The percentage of kavalactones in kava powder is typically 5-10%.
That works out to 400-800 mg of kavalactones per tablespoon of kava powder.
However, you also have to account for the fact that not all of that is bioavailable. Some of the KLs will be lost in whatever extraction process you use. Even if you use toss-and-wash, you can't digest the hard fibrous material known as the "makas", so the KLs in those would not be absorbed by your body.
So 400-800 mg of kavalactones is an upper limit on what it is possible to extract from a tablespoon of kava. The bioavailable amount is certainly significantly less.

This is quite helpful. Do you have any idea how much less you can use, or the equivalent dosage for micronized kava. For example would 3 tbs micronized = 4 tbs medium grind? Part of why I'm asking is because this seems rather expensive to be taking so many tablespoons daily. With K@ its $100 for a kilo (just over 2 lbs) andI was only taking 3 tbs daily. The micronized kava I saw was slightly more expensive for less than half the amount (1 lb), AND it seems like I would be taking over twice the amount of tablespoons per day. So compared to K@ it would likely last me 1/4 the time compared to getting a kilo of K@ for about the same price (half the amount taken at double the rate) meaning that getting on the kava train will literally be 4X as expensive as K@. Are there wholesale kava companies i'm overlooking because this seems way to expensive, over $200 / month for 6 - 8 tbs daily?

Also, I'm a big fan of relatively subtle experiences and I'm a big believer in reverse tolerance because I experienced it dramatically with K@. Even now I am appreciating 2 tbs toss and wash of the medium grind even though I know it does get more recreational. At this point though I'm just trying to determine what is the most economical way to do this because i'm not sure how worth it it's gonna be. Like I said I had no idea you had to take this much material...

 

[verticity]

This is quite helpful. Do you have any idea how much less you can use, or the equivalent dosage for micronized kava. For example would 3 tbs micronized = 4 tbs medium grind? Part of why I'm asking is because this seems rather expensive to be taking so many tablespoons daily. With K@ its $100 for a kilo (just over 2 lbs) andI was only taking 3 tbs daily. The micronized kava I saw was slightly more expensive for less than half the amount (1 lb), AND it seems like I would be taking over twice the amount of tablespoons per day. So compared to K@ it would likely last me 1/4 the time compared to getting a kilo of K@ for about the same price (half the amount taken at double the rate) meaning that getting on the kava train will literally be 4X as expensive as K@. Are there wholesale kava companies i'm overlooking because this seems way to expensive, over $200 / month for 6 - 8 tbs daily?

Also, I'm a big fan of relatively subtle experiences and I'm a big believer in reverse tolerance because I experienced it dramatically with K@. Even now I am appreciating 2 tbs toss and wash of the medium grind even though I know it does get more recreational. At this point though I'm just trying to determine what is the most economical way to do this because i'm not sure how worth it it's gonna be. Like I said I had no idea you had to take this much material...

In general 1 tbsp of micronized is equivalent to 2 tbsp of regular grind.
Gourmet Hawaiian Kava is great stuff, but it is on the higher end of the price range. For somewhat lower cost options you can check out Luna Kava, Squanch Kava, Kalm with Kava, or Cactus Kava. I don't know about wholesale companies, but you would have to buy wholesale quantities from them, obviously, like 10+ kilos at a time...