New Voyages

[Casper]

Rather than hijack someone elses thread, thought I'd post my own. I've been lurking on this site a while, part of my research into Kava. If any of you have done youtube videos, thanks! They've helped a bit as well.

Some back history, I was involved in a car accident 20 years ago, suffer from constant back pain. My right arm is fairly damaged, bruises very easily, with severe pain each time. None of my doctors were pill pushers, but they did get me started on Tylenol with codeine. There was a time I was so adapted to them I could easily pop 5-6 T3 at a time just to ease the pain, and I wouldn't be phased. I probably looked like House. My doctor quit prescribing them as I was going through them too fast, but here in Canada, you can get T1 OTC. So for the last 20 years I probably was taking 20 of them a day. After work to wind down and get relaxed, I'd shoot back a 6pk of beer. Deadly combination, but I did it for years.
This year, my resolution was to get off of pharmaceuticals. I'm off the codeine for a month (that wasn't fun), but I still have body aches every night, takes a long time to try and get to sleep, can't get comfortable. If I have a 6pk of beer, I doze off like a baby. Beer isn't horrible, if that's the worse I'm left with, its not going to kill me. The one big downside is I work in an office, and don't get much exercise, which leads to lots of weight gaining.

So that lead me down the path in search of something non-pharmaceutical, non addictive, not loaded with calories, to relax me in the evening and let me have a great night sleep. Enter stage left, Kava.

Took me a while to get the nerve up to actually buy some, felt like I was buying illegal drugs. Mostly cause when you first search for it on Google, you see BANNED all over the place.

I ordered a small pack of GHK Moi instant, however when it arrived, was sent Moi Micro instead. Don't know how big the difference is between the two.
First day - Was nervous, read how bad it tasted, and it didn't smell good, so tried a kava colada with 2 tbsps. that was a mistake. Best I could describe was sticking a dirty old coconut air freshener in my mouth. Took me 2 hours to gag that down. Noticed a slight buzz, could tell I had something in my system.
Second day (today) - Decided to go straight, I can't think of anything to make this normal. Gagged two tbsps kava/water. After an hour, had a feeling like I'd taken a double dose of cough medicine. So i gagged another 2 tbsps kava/water. Didn't increase the effect at all. Guessing its going to take a few days (weeks) for RT.
This little 50g packet I got is going empty fast, so guessing I'm going to have to start making my own to be more cost effective.
How long does a 1lb bag last usually?
Anywho, looking forward to seeing how this goes, and if it will work for me. This site has bought a lot of information to me on Kava, great that its here.

 

[Steve Mariotti]

@Casper, a pound of medium grind root lasts me probably two weeks or more, and I drink (almost) every night.

I think if you stick with kava past the point where you become sensitized to it, you will have exactly what you're looking for: a good relaxing transition in the evenings, no addiction, no pharmaceuticals and a fun new hobby to boot. Since I've started with kava, I pretty much no longer drink any alcohol and I can't say I miss it one bit.

 

[Casper]

Figured out why you use shells. 4oz is almost the exact amount of kava you can chug before your tongue tells your brain wtf is going on.
Now that I got it figured out, it isn't that bad. I have a shot glass of sprite or ginger ale ready, after I chug the Kava, wash my mouth out with the shooter. No more gagging.
Ordered my 1lb today, the small packet I ordered is gone, so probably have to start RT all over again when it gets here. Oh well, wanted to see if I could handle it, and I can.

Its really not as bad as the mind makes it out to be. lol

Edit: Just wanted to add, I've had tinnitus for years. After todays dose, disappeared... well almost. Hardly notice it.

 

[Steve Mariotti]

Ordered my 1lb today, the small packet I ordered is gone, so probably have to start RT all over again when it gets here. Oh well, wanted to see if I could handle it, and I can.

You'd be surprised. It seems to take a while for you to lose sensitivity to kava after you got there.

Edit: Just wanted to add, I've had tinnitus for years. After todays dose, disappeared... well almost. Hardly notice it.

That's really weird. Kava seems to GIVE me tinnitus, where there hadn't been any. Small price to pay, though, for all the positives.

 

[Casper]

I'd posted this just as the effect had taken place. Hour later, I was out of the cloud and "sober" again, tinnitus returned. Today, I now really miss it. It made closing the day so much easier. I could focus on the numbers, just get everything done. Wasn't stressed if things weren't adding up right, or what needed to be done the next day. I did skype calls for interviewing people which I normally hate as I'm anti social (anxiety), and they went smoothly.

Last few nights had the best night sleep ever, didn't wake up until the alarm clock went off. First night without Kava, was up all night again with back pain and restless legs.

This may just be the miracle root. We'll see in a few days how well Paradise's grog treats me.

 

[Casper]

Quick question. So I got PK's in yesterday, made up a quick 16oz blender batch with 4tbsps, which after it cooled, chugged down. About 5 minutes later, I was in "that place", not sure how to describe it, but had a big smile on my face, know that. About an hour later that disappeared, rest of the night was in this bluh state, not wanting to do anything. Is that the normal experience? Or changes the more you use it. I'd thought I was going to deal with RT, but apparently not so much.

 

[Deleted User01]

@Casper, welcome to the forum. The Moi micronized will actually be stronger than the instant. GHK sells the 13 Kavas of Hawaii and they each have they own characteristics. I ordered some Papa Kea recently to help with the bone and muscle pain that I get when the gardening season starts. I have to unload 3 greenhouses for starters and then get out the shovel and start digging holes. I recently got an inquiry from an 80 year old lady who is in constant pain from arthritis and she is beside herself. I'm going to pay close attention to the Papa Kea this time around and I hope to be able to recommend it for pain relief. It has worked for me in the past but this time I have to be 100 percent sure.

Lookit, if you are having problems with RT, then just buy some of those Gaia Gelcaps and pop 2 or 3 a day until you get your first buzz. Then move on to the good stuff. FYI, the Moi' is known for its uplifting effects and I think it is great for social anxiety and even depression.

 

[thorildor]

I'd posted this just as the effect had taken place. Hour later, I was out of the cloud and "sober" again, tinnitus returned. Today, I now really miss it. It made closing the day so much easier. I could focus on the numbers, just get everything done. Wasn't stressed if things weren't adding up right, or what needed to be done the next day. I did skype calls for interviewing people which I normally hate as I'm anti social (anxiety), and they went smoothly.

Last few nights had the best night sleep ever, didn't wake up until the alarm clock went off. First night without Kava, was up all night again with back pain and restless legs.

This may just be the miracle root. We'll see in a few days how well Paradise's grog treats me.

So grea to see that, I'm sure that you find the best treatment, that also can help you not only on your "medicals" problems.

 

[Rookietwoshoes]

About an hour later that disappeared, rest of the night was in this bluh state, not wanting to do anything. Is that the normal experience?

Yes, that happens. The effects dissipate if you don't continue drinking. The comedown will also vary from strain to strain.

 

[Steve Mariotti]

I don't tend to get a "bluh" kind of feeling after it tails off, though. Tends to be a happy sleepy state that I settle into.

 

[Casper]

How long can you keep grog in the fridge for before it gets really rank? I mixed in fresh with what I had left over from last night, seems to have a much stronger taste, like rubber or latex. This is Borogu from Paradise.
Another question, how vigorously do you knead the root. I noticed if I did too much of it, the root grit started coming through. Still blending it in hot water for 10 minutes, then bagging it, kneading it for another 5 minutes before removing, then putting in a container in the fridge to cool.
Oh, and with the kava strainer bags, how do you clean them? I've just been flipping inside out and rinsing the contents in the sink (plug the drain one of these times lol). then setting the bag to dry with bubble wrap inside. I also seen some people were reusing the root, is this possible or is it done once its been in water?

 

[kavadude]

Like a day, maybe less. Leaving it overnight is not a good idea if you can avoid it.

I soak mine in some Dr Bronners hot soapy water then squeeze all that out then repeat with cold unsoapy water.

You can reuse the root, most people find double straining is a good use of their time.

 

[Monkava'd]

How long can you keep grog in the fridge for before it gets really rank? I mixed in fresh with what I had left over from last night, seems to have a much stronger taste, like rubber or latex. This is Borogu from Paradise.
Another question, how vigorously do you knead the root. I noticed if I did too much of it, the root grit started coming through. Still blending it in hot water for 10 minutes, then bagging it, kneading it for another 5 minutes before removing, then putting in a container in the fridge to cool.
Oh, and with the kava strainer bags, how do you clean them? I've just been flipping inside out and rinsing the contents in the sink (plug the drain one of these times lol). then setting the bag to dry with bubble wrap inside. I also seen some people were reusing the root, is this possible or is it done once its been in water?

Welcome to the forums Casper...wait just a minute..ca...ca...ca..ca..cassper? ..well you're friendly, I can tell that easy enough. But you're not a ghost right? ghosts give me tension that makes me waste unnecessary amounts of kava to calm.

Alright aside from that cheesed up joke, where do I start?

First of all I'm glad you've discovered this forum. There are so many people whom're currently suffering from debilitating conditions, addictions...etc that could benefit from the ole'piper that remain oblivious to kava because of the sheer lack of (useful) info strewn about the web.
Or on the other hand and in relation to what you discovered the info they do find is based around those notorious early 2000 era (flawed and unsubstantiated) studies in which it was purported that kava related deaths were due in part to liver toxicity caused by kavalactones.

Luckily we've crossed that bridge and those studies were proven false by the sheer fact that many of those individuals who passed away were also consuming alcohol as a cherry on top to their kava. This does not rule out any safety concerns whatsoever and it's always best to retain a "better safe than sorry" disposition but without even taking into account known variables or dangerous combinations; than death or serious harm through the consumption of kava sounds rather unlikely (to put it lightly).

Moving on, I continue to be overjoyed when I hear someone kicking a pharma habit or addiction of any sort by way of the root . So kudos to you in what sounds like a substantially difficult challenge to face. I hope all goes well for you in what lies ahead.

In respect to the kava-
It's generally accepted that instant's weaker in impact than both micro and med grind but that can be subjective; in that if the same proportions of micro to instant and med grind were used than maybe the instant would come out on top. The issue with that theory lies in the fact of the matter=Micro is the same as med grind (retains all of the goodies/potency and fibrous material/ whole root whereas instant does not) but ground down to a micron size and (in the case with Gourmet Hawaiian kavas micro) it can be as fine or finer than instant. Micro is more potent because of what I just explained briefly in parentheses along with something else I left out. Instant Is the result of traditionally kneaded and strained medium grind that's left to dry in a (usually) controlled environment; afterwards it's scraped up, bagged and then sent off to a drooling kavasseurs front door.

One more thing that's worth the mention @Gourmet Hawaiian Kava (or Chris) and his micro goes through a special process which entails removing a portion of the fibrous substance many are accustomed to consuming in a med grind called makas. Makas are a star shaped portion of the kava root innards which surround the center most portion of the kava root. These are removed because through arduous effort it seems as though these fibers are what causes the well renowned dermopathy (or scaly itchy rash like red skin) commonly associated with regular usage of kava. A breakthrough such as this was a surprise to me (and others as well) and regardless of our respect for Chris, skepticism was trying to rear its ugly head as I was wrapping my mind around the whole presentation. I'm not sure if this finding has became conclusive or not but ever since that reformulation his micro has yet to give me a hint of dermopathy. Others among the forum can vouch the same for themselves I'm sure.

Now I'll attempt to quickly answer some of your points.

1.Life of kava in the fridge, don't take my word alone for it but I've found kava to remain right as rain as long as it's ice chilled (it can truly never be too cold). I recommend you search the forums for further information/threads which pose a similar question (search bar). Also there could be many other variables which contributed to the condition of your kava after a stay in the fridge but I'll attempt to give you a hand with the main ones. Was it in an air tight container? If not than that'd be key because kava must be sealed tight when stored because it wastes no time soiling after it's left out in the open.
If so than was that air tight container made of plastic or glass? Plastix may have an effect on the taste and I've noticed when drinking water out of a plastic container after its sat that a rubbery taste's imparted.

2.As far as kneading and how much pressures needed or not needed. This depends upon the specific strainer you're using at the time, grind of the root, yada, yada, yada. If you're using a muslin strainer bag I'd recommend you switch to something like a fijian strainer bag (bulakavahouse and others retail these) or knee high stocking (retailed at your local Walmart or any common store you'd find clothing being marketed. Fijian strainers are great for very fine material and coarse grinds whereas knee high stocking cater to someones who's looking for a cheap and pliable solution to any variation of grind under the sun (though I suggest straining the entire portion of grog one more time after its prepared if you want to catch the less manageable grit.

I hope my rambling was of some use and I'll toss a couple shells back for you in higher hopes that your early stage transitioning through kavatolerance will ease shortly so you may be able to enjoy the finer things it has to offer.

Have a wonderful time on the forums and BULA!Oh and here's a couple links in relation to my post while I'm at it.

http://kavaforums.com/forum/posts/45065/
http://kavaforums.com/forum/posts/38802/
http://kavaforums.com/forum/posts/49797/
http://kavaforums.com/forum/posts/37980/
http://kavaforums.com/forum/posts/35514/
http://kavaforums.com/forum/posts/36381/

 

[Steve Mariotti]

Dang, @Monkava'd. That's the best welcome email I've ever seen.

 

[Casper]

I've noticed the initial effects fading. I used to get a bomb of euphoria for the first hour, then into a lul for a couple hours. That no longer happens, just go into a lul. Using 4tbsps of borogu in 2 cups of hot tap water. That mean I have to increase the amount i use in the mixture? I use hot tap water, blend for 8 minutes, strain and kneed for a couple minutes, then chill.

Also, before the wife discovers what I did... anyone find a way to get the smell out of the blender? Its glass, scrubbed it out with soap and water, including the blades. After it dries, take a whiff inside and it just wreaks of kava. She likes making her energy drinks, imagine if they start tasting like kava she's not going to be happy.

As for the latex taste, I think it was the cooling method. I've started moving directly to freezer after prep, and don't have that taste anymore. I also only prepare the amount I intend to drink in one day, no leftovers.

 

[kavadude]

How to do it? Buy a cheapo blender and dedicate it exclusively to kava. If you use it often enough it'll probably get a bit of a kava caking anyway.

For the one you already messed up...vinegar wipe maybe? That's how I clean my teapot.

 

[Casper]

Discovered the change in effect, was something small I was doing in preparation. I was blending in hot water for 8 minutes, then straining in a bag last couple batches. What's different is previously I would knead for upwards of 10 minutes. Now that I'm kneading longer afterwards, world of difference. Was a potent batch tonight

 

[Casper]

Got a new flavor in today, Koniak from Bula Kava house. Made up 3 cups at 2 tbs per cup.
Was entirely different scent, more piney. The grind itself was very rough. not like the previous I had from Paradise, which would be hard to tell from their micro grind to normal grind. The borogu I had from paradise was so fine it looked identical to the micro.
I mixed the same as I did the previous root grind from Paradise, but totally different effect. No headiness at all. I got a sedation effect, but that was it. I can't say it was overly strong. Its 3 hours later, and I'm wide awake.
The borogu from Paradise, I know when I take it, not to plan anything for the next 1-2 hours because I wasn't going to "be there", and the high was enjoyable. Koniak I would compare to sleeping pills. Not a high you can enjoy.
Think Koniak has had some ingenious advertising to make people think its the best out. Guarantee so far from my limited testing it's not. I have a pound minus today to work through before I test m next kava grind, not looking forward to it.

 

[Steve Mariotti]

That Koniak, @Casper, has a fair bit of tudei in it, by the lab test results. Both acetone test and HPLC assay. It's more of a "novelty" or "special occasion" kind of kava when you can spare the following day for some down time. That said, I have not tried the Koniak, but the test results put me off of it.

I don't think that'd stop @HeadHodge though!

 

[Casper]

Yeah I'm definitely discovering the differences between them, its really hard to believe there is such a difference. I've done my reading and believe I'm after one that is more heady, which would be the Hawaiian blends I started out with.