Possible potentiation predicament

[wormwood]

Do you have references to those studies? I mean I like cheese, but "opiate-like"? I am skeptical. I have seen the same claim made about wheat (see the book Wheat Belly). I'm skeptical of that too.

I'll see if I can dig stuff up. And by opiate-like....I don't mean its anywhere near the level of an actual opiate...but it's called a casomorphin.

Heres a link to get you started and Ill come back with more later, actual studies if I remember correctly and can dig them up
http://yumuniverse.com/addiction-to-cheese-is-real-thanks-to-casomorphins/

But I always swore, before I knew about this so its not placebo, that cheese really gave me a sort of mild buzz when I would eat a lot of it. Maybe I'm just bipolar and sought out cheese during my high periods and mistakenly drew the uncausal correlation

Its also possible that I am completely wrong. But its also possible that I'm only a little wrong.

 

[verticity]

...
But I always swore, before I knew about this so its not placebo, that cheese really gave me a sort of mild buzz when I would eat a lot of it. Maybe I'm just bipolar and sought out cheese during my high periods and mistakenly drew the uncausal correlation ....

Maybe you are actually a mouse. Are you about 3 inches long with a tail?

 

[verticity]

I'll see if I can dig stuff up. And by opiate-like....I don't mean its anywhere near the level of an actual opiate...but it's called a casomorphin.

Heres a link to get you started and Ill come back with more later, actual studies if I remember correctly and can dig them up
http://yumuniverse.com/addiction-to-cheese-is-real-thanks-to-casomorphins/

But I always swore, before I knew about this so its not placebo, that cheese really gave me a sort of mild buzz when I would eat a lot of it. Maybe I'm just bipolar and sought out cheese during my high periods and mistakenly drew the uncausal correlation

Its also possible that I am completely wrong. But its also possible that I'm only a little wrong.

That's interesting, but the opioid effect will really depend on how much of the stuff there actually is when cheese is digested, and how potent of an opioiid it is, and whether it survives being digested to make it to the brain, and whether it can cross the blood brain-barrier. It's a peptide, so it is unlikely it will make it out of the stomach, actually. And the paper linked in the article states that:

"In comparison to medicinal and endogenous opioids, bovine BCM7 [β-casomorphin-7] does not seem to be a very
potent opioid ligand."​

That means it only binds weakly to opiioid receptors. And

"A prerequisite for opioid activity after oral ingestion is that the peptides must pass the intestinal epithelial barrier. In addition, subsequent biotransformation in the liver and stability in plasma may be factors determining the ultimate biological activity. Finally, passage through the blood-brain-barrier is in principle needed for an activity in the central nervous system. Relatively little is known on the mechanisms of transfer of intact peptides longer than 3 amino acids across the intestinal barrier. If this transport occurs, then the extent is very low and passive diffusion is the most likely transfer mechanism. The presence of β-casomorphin immunoreactive material has been reported in blood in two studies with neonatal dogs and calves. However, the presence of intact β-casomorphin molecules in blood after intake of milk or casein has not been established in in vivo studies. Opioid peptides, including β-casomorphin 4, -5 and -7 are highly sensitive to hydrolysis by dipeptidyl peptidase IV thereby strongly limiting or preventing the transfer of these peptides in an intact form across the intestinal mucosa and the blood-brain barrier."​

In other words, it's pretty unlikely this stuff actually has any significant opioid effect in the brain. So the title of the article "Addiction to Cheese is Real..." is pretty misleading.

 

[wormwood]

I wonder if there might be a similar mechanism such as in lopermide in place with this. Its been stated, that lopermide cannot cross the BBB. Which is actually only partially true. It does cross it but only very briefly due to a certain molecular arm of the substance which forces it to be ejected very quickly from the brain back to the blood. "Users" have gotten around this by ingesting extremely large amounts of the substance which substantially decreases the body's ability to clear it as quickly. This leads to significantly decreased symptoms of opiate withdrawal in those suffering of it. If you read enough about people using immodium for opiate withdrawal on certain forums you'll see what I mean. It's a lifesaver for many. And when you abuse immodium-type substances in this fashion for a long time, despite its weak ability to cross BBB, it does produce withdrawal.

I'm not sure if cheese warrants the same equitable amount of "extremely large amounts" as swallowing 70 lopermides does, prob not, but I don't know.

Just speculation. I thought I came across a study on this but I cant find it now.

Whattaya think?

 

[verticity]

I wonder if there might be a similar mechanism such as in lopermide in place with this. Its been stated, that lopermide cannot cross the BBB. Which is actually only partially true. It does cross it but only very briefly due to a certain molecular arm of the substance which forces it to be ejected very quickly from the brain back to the blood. "Users" have gotten around this by ingesting extremely large amounts of the substance which substantially decreases the body's ability to clear it as quickly. This leads to significantly decreased symptoms of opiate withdrawal in those suffering of it. If you read enough about people using immodium for opiate withdrawal on certain forums you'll see what I mean. It's a lifesaver for many. And when you abuse immodium-type substances in this fashion for a long time, despite its weak ability to cross BBB, it does produce withdrawal.

I'm not sure if cheese warrants the same equitable amount of "extremely large amounts" as swallowing 70 lopermides does, prob not, but I don't know.

Just speculation. I thought I came across a study on this but I cant find it now.

Whattaya think?

I think that due to the fact that the main opioid peptide consists of a chain of 7 amino acids, it would never make it out of the intestines in significant quantities.

"There is virtually no absorption of peptides longer than four amino acids. However, there is abundant absorption of di- and tripeptides in the small intestine....
Once inside the enterocyte, the vast bulk of absorbed di- and tripeptides are digested into amino acids by cytoplasmic peptidases and exported from the cell into blood. Only a very small number of these small peptides enter blood intact." Reference
​

So, I think the only way the Immodium trick would work with cheese is if you injected regurgitated cheese directly into your brain. I will not be held responsible if anyone reads this and actually tries to do this. (I hear the practice is sometimes done among "Cheeseheads" in Winsonsin)

 

[wormwood]

I think that due to the fact that the main opioid peptide consists of a chain of 7 amino acids, it would never make it out of the intestines in significant quantities.

"There is virtually no absorption of peptides longer than four amino acids. However, there is abundant absorption of di- and tripeptides in the small intestine....
Once inside the enterocyte, the vast bulk of absorbed di- and tripeptides are digested into amino acids by cytoplasmic peptidases and exported from the cell into blood. Only a very small number of these small peptides enter blood intact." Reference
​

So, I think the only way the Immodium trick would work with cheese is if you injected regurgitated cheese directly into your brain. I will not be held responsible if anyone reads this and actually tries to do this. (I hear the practice is sometimes done among "Cheeseheads" in Winsonsin)

Just when I thought you sounded like you knew what you are talking about. You don't inject cheese. You snort it.

 

[Edward]

Just when I thought you sounded like you knew what you are talking about. You don't inject cheese. You snort it.

No wonder it's not working for you, you need it in suppository form to get the best buzz from cheese.

 

[Capitán Bastos]

So, I think the only way the Immodium trick would work with cheese is if you injected regurgitated cheese directly into your brain. I will not be held responsible if anyone reads this and actually tries to do this. (I hear the practice is sometimes done among "Cheeseheads" in Winsonsin)

Just when I thought you sounded like you knew what you are talking about. You don't inject cheese. You snort it.

No wonder it's not working for you, you need it in suppository form to get the best buzz from cheese.

Close, @Edward , I just spoke with Science, they said you need to melt the cheese and for a piping hot 24hr intestinal rinse, it's the only way to get the good stuff into your bloodstream (via the mucosas).

 

[wormwood]

No wonder it's not working for you, you need it in suppository form to get the best buzz from cheese.

AHHH....I thought that just worked with jalapenos!

 

[verticity]

AHHH....I thought that just worked with jalapenos!

Pepperjack would probably work well.