Preloading with cider vinegar

[Camaytoc]

I remember that someone on the forum theorized that a low acid stomac seems to weaken the kava digestion. He told that he drink a tbs of cidar vinegar just before his kava session.

So that was something I wanna try. And it seems to be effective. Maybe it was just a coïncidence, but the circonstances was on the side of his theory.

I did a huge kava session with my wife on empty stomac from 17h to 18h30. We drank about 2 liter each of very strong fresh med grind with a very long prep (aluball all the powder, 15min vitamin mixer high speed then 15min trad prep)
Then we goes to the restaurant and got a big meal around 21h. We were so packed...

The wife has fallen asleep at 23h and I walked down to the kitchen.
I've taken a soupe spoon of vinegar and started drinking a new batch of the same kava, double aluball.

Now, even if I still have the big meal in my belly, I've fallen krunk in about 5 minutes
Maybe the little extra stomac acidity helped breaking down the kava...

If you guys try it, share your experience, who knows...maybe it is something!!?

 

[recentreturn]

I remember that someone on the forum theorized that a low acid stomac seems to weaken the kava digestion. He told that he drink a tbs of cidar vinegar just before his kava session.

So that was something I wanna try. And it seems to be effective. Maybe it was just a coïncidence, but the circonstances was on the side of his theory.

I did a huge kava session with my wife on empty stomac from 17h to 18h30. We drank about 2 liter each of very strong fresh med grind with a very long prep (aluball all the powder, 15min vitamin mixer high speed then 15min trad prep)
Then we goes to the restaurant and got a big meal around 21h. We were so packed...

The wife has fallen asleep at 23h and I walked down to the kitchen.
I've taken a soupe spoon of vinegar and started drinking a new batch of the same kava, double aluball.

Now, even if I still have the big meal in my belly, I've fallen krunk in about 5 minutes
Maybe the little extra stomac acidity helped breaking down the kava...

If you guys try it, share your experience, who knows...maybe it is something!!?

hmmm. Coincidence? Maybe. I think 2 liters of strong grog on an empty stomach in 1.5 hrs would krunk me no matter how I prepped my stomach.

 

[Camaytoc]

hmmm. Coincidence? Maybe. I think 2 liters of strong grog on an empty stomach in 1.5 hrs would krunk me no matter how I prepped my stomach.

But last shell was at 18h30 and at 23h30 I was back at my base line (time at which at started my little other seshion).
You think that my first one would be responsable of the strength of the other? Maybe the stacking of residual lactones?
Anyways, all be trying again and report back if I find something interesting.

To be noted that I've been curious about that post because I had used a bunch of sodium bicarbonate since the begening of my kava usage to ease that mud passing the stomac gate. But by the fack that bicarbonate have a PH of 8 or 9, maybe that was counter productive... if that theory is founded.

 

[kastom_lif]

I don't know if a sip of vinegar would change your stomach's chemistry all that much. Stomach acid is not the same as acetic acid (i.e. vinegar.) Plus stomach acid is WAY stronger than vinegar. If a tablespoon of vinegar could have any effect, then chugging a glass of neutral pH water would completely halt digestion--yet chugging water doesn't halt digestion at all.

On a related note, people have been saying that citric acid may selectively break down kavain more than other KL's. The science seems to jive with the ni-Van cultural practice of avoiding citrus fruits when at the nakamal.

 

[Camaytoc]

I don't know if a sip of vinegar would change your stomach's chemistry all that much. Stomach acid is not the same as acetic acid (i.e. vinegar.) Plus stomach acid is WAY stronger than vinegar. If a tablespoon of vinegar could have any effect, then chugging a glass of neutral pH water would completely halt digestion--yet chugging water doesn't halt digestion at all.

On a related note, people have been saying that citric acid may selectively break down kavain more than other KL's. The science seems to jive with the ni-Van cultural practice of avoiding citrus fruits when at the nakamal.

Thanks, very nice infos!
I guess it is actually more a placebo effect but today I felt the same potentiating. I'll be continuing experimenting and see if it is something other then placebo.

Do you have a link about the citric acid and kavain? I'm very interested by science fact. (I'll Google it as well).

Cheers!

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

I believe this would work. My reasoning is that the heavy kls. Are actually absorbed by hydrochloric acid. Stomach acid.. the vinegar doesn't absorb it but activates the release of stomach acid and there by aids the absorption... the reason food blocks kava is due to excess carbs filling up the stomach and thereby blocking up the surface area of the kls to absorb into the hydrochloric acid.
Protein causes stomach acid to be released ecspecialy in small amounts. So small fatty protein snack before kava for me is most effective for this reason.. anything that increases the bile and stomach acid will increase kava effectiveness.

 

[Camaytoc]

I believe this would work. My reasoning is that the heavy kls. Are actually absorbed by hydrochloric acid. Stomach acid.. the vinegar doesn't absorb it but activates the release of stomach acid and there by aids the absorption... the reason food blocks kava is due to excess carbs filling up the stomach and thereby blocking up the surface area of the kls to absorb into the hydrochloric acid.
Protein causes stomach acid to be released ecspecialy in small amounts. So small fatty protein snack before kava for me is most effective for this reason.. anything that increases the bile and stomach acid will increase kava effectiveness.

Great to hear that!
Do you think that a simple protein shake could be helpful? I know that it is important to read the sticker and make sure it doesn't contains bad stuff, but if it is "a clean" product, it might be super easy to integrate to the routine.

 

[recentreturn]

But last shell was at 18h30 and at 23h30 I was back at my base line (time at which at started my little other seshion).
You think that my first one would be responsable of the strength of the other? Maybe the stacking of residual lactones?
Anyways, all be trying again and report back if I find something interesting.

To be noted that I've been curious about that post because I had used a bunch of sodium bicarbonate since the begening of my kava usage to ease that mud passing the stomac gate. But by the fack that bicarbonate have a PH of 8 or 9, maybe that was counter productive... if that theory is founded.

In my limited experience, I do think that I find that a second session can be stronger because of a first.

 

[kastom_lif]

I believe this would work. My reasoning is that the heavy kls. Are actually absorbed by hydrochloric acid. Stomach acid.. the vinegar doesn't absorb it but activates the release of stomach acid and there by aids the absorption... the reason food blocks kava is due to excess carbs filling up the stomach and thereby blocking up the surface area of the kls to absorb into the hydrochloric acid.
Protein causes stomach acid to be released ecspecialy in small amounts. So small fatty protein snack before kava for me is most effective for this reason.. anything that increases the bile and stomach acid will increase kava effectiveness.

That could be right! Eating a meal usually makes kava kick, and the stomach produces more acid when there is food present.

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

I remember that someone on the forum theorized that a low acid stomac seems to weaken the kava digestion. He told that he drink a tbs of cidar vinegar just before his kava session.

So that was something I wanna try. And it seems to be effective. Maybe it was just a coïncidence, but the circonstances was on the side of his theory.

I did a huge kava session with my wife on empty stomac from 17h to 18h30. We drank about 2 liter each of very strong fresh med grind with a very long prep (aluball all the powder, 15min vitamin mixer high speed then 15min trad prep)
Then we goes to the restaurant and got a big meal around 21h. We were so packed...

The wife has fallen asleep at 23h and I walked down to the kitchen.
I've taken a soupe spoon of vinegar and started drinking a new batch of the same kava, double aluball.

Now, even if I still have the big meal in my belly, I've fallen krunk in about 5 minutes
Maybe the little extra stomac acidity helped breaking down the kava...

If you guys try it, share your experience, who knows...maybe it is something!!?

just an addendum that it is unsafe to drink straight vinegar and it is best to dilute it, even with water. Some old fogies round here swear by grape juice with added local honey and some cider vinegar as a daily tonic. By all means, use apple cider vinegar, just be careful how. I use it for athlete's foot, which dead wet makas is also good for.

 

[Intrepidus_dux]

I've found a small protein based snack...also known as steak or a tin of smoked oysters helps my krunk. Steak is a snack right?! Not protein powder usually.
I agree with @Mrbinx69 that too much carbs definitely ruin things. A large amount of bread products is worse for me for kava than a small amount of brown rice.
But also, just for the joy of kava science I will try this apple cider vinegar before my next session. I have some with the mother in my fridge.

 

[kastom_lif]

Vinegar diluted with water is very refreshing.

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

Absolutely steak is a snack. Imagine the size of steak a small tribe would eat 200000 years ago when they got a buffalo

 

[Intrepidus_dux]

Probably better that what I buy at the grocery store!

 

[JonT]

Thanks, very nice infos!
I guess it is actually more a placebo effect but today I felt the same potentiating. I'll be continuing experimenting and see if it is something other then placebo.

Do you have a link about the citric acid and kavain? I'm very interested by science fact. (I'll Google it as well).

Cheers!

@Henry mentioned this to me once. It came from Lebot I think?
Years ago when I used to drink strong tasting bad kava, I would put a little bit of ginger, lemon and honey syrup in. I never noticed it reducing the effects, but that doesn't mean it wasn't breaking down the kavain somewhat.

Questions I have about this anyway: what does it break the kavain into? And how quickly does it act? Seconds, minutes or hours?