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Steeping Kava for Increased Kavalactone Extraction

Donwanagan

Kava Curious
Most posts i read here contain statements that the kavalactones are bonded to the root, physically, and thus extraction methods like steeping ( such as a tea bag of tea leaves in hot water, or ground coffee bean in a French press ) will not work to produce a decently kavalactone containing beverage. As such, kneading vigorously, for extended times, became the traditional method. Until we came up with the blender method and aluball etc.

So, my experience thus far is limited but i think I've realized a few things and would like to share and hear others experiences.

My first experiences were with the aluball. I would shake it softly for 30 to 60 times, then leave it to sit for 5 minutes or so, then shake it softly again for the same time. With 2tbsp of kwk fiji lao or vula waka i was not getting strong effects, but a discernable relaxation.
Next, i got a small strainer, simply putting the same root amount and kneading 10 minutes. The first time was a very very strong difference. The next few times was a hit or miss so i experimented with using up 4tbsp. Not exactly looking to get krunk, but trying to figure out the efficiency.
Then, i noticed on the kwk website, the easy prep description mentions a 5 to 10 minute steep before actually kneading. So, i tried that, as well as using water at 110deg. F versus the room temp i had been using.

Part of my experimenting is flawed because im both inexperienced as well as have used 3 various kavas over the course of these instances. Lao being balanced heady, vula balanced heavy, and damu being described as balanced ( but to my experience that stuff will make me want to go to sleep eventually or after eating after a session, which to me seems like a heavy trait ).

So, my theory is that kavalactone extraction efficiency is increased by steeping. The best kava experiences ive had were with my aluball. I began vigorously shaking it ( to physically seperate the kavalactones better ) and that improved my consistency more than when i only softly shook it. And also, I've begun letting it steep for various times between shaking, assuming that the saturation of water will increase the extraction.

Does anyone else steep or use steeping as part of their process? Am i onto something or just wasting time?

Also, has anyone cold steeped overnight? I searched here and found a post of one person who would save used kava in water in the fridge over night for the next day, but they didn't allude to the relevance of that extended steeping in relation to better extraction. Id like to try steeping kava in the fridge overnight , the cold temperatures should help keep off mold or other things that could ruin it for 8 hours. I brew cold brew green or sometimes black tea every night already to decrease acidity. But after an 8 hour soak, id think the plasticity of the root contents should increase for better extraction.
Anyone tried anything similar?
 

Krunkie McKrunkface

Kava Connoisseur
Most posts i read here contain statements that the kavalactones are bonded to the root, physically, and thus extraction methods like steeping ( such as a tea bag of tea leaves in hot water, or ground coffee bean in a French press ) will not work to produce a decently kavalactone containing beverage. As such, kneading vigorously, for extended times, became the traditional method. Until we came up with the blender method and aluball etc.

So, my experience thus far is limited but i think I've realized a few things and would like to share and hear others experiences.

My first experiences were with the aluball. I would shake it softly for 30 to 60 times, then leave it to sit for 5 minutes or so, then shake it softly again for the same time. With 2tbsp of kwk fiji lao or vula waka i was not getting strong effects, but a discernable relaxation.
Next, i got a small strainer, simply putting the same root amount and kneading 10 minutes. The first time was a very very strong difference. The next few times was a hit or miss so i experimented with using up 4tbsp. Not exactly looking to get krunk, but trying to figure out the efficiency.
Then, i noticed on the kwk website, the easy prep description mentions a 5 to 10 minute steep before actually kneading. So, i tried that, as well as using water at 110deg. F versus the room temp i had been using.

Part of my experimenting is flawed because im both inexperienced as well as have used 3 various kavas over the course of these instances. Lao being balanced heady, vula balanced heavy, and damu being described as balanced ( but to my experience that stuff will make me want to go to sleep eventually or after eating after a session, which to me seems like a heavy trait ).

So, my theory is that kavalactone extraction efficiency is increased by steeping. The best kava experiences ive had were with my aluball. I began vigorously shaking it ( to physically seperate the kavalactones better ) and that improved my consistency more than when i only softly shook it. And also, I've begun letting it steep for various times between shaking, assuming that the saturation of water will increase the extraction.

Does anyone else steep or use steeping as part of their process? Am i onto something or just wasting time?

Also, has anyone cold steeped overnight? I searched here and found a post of one person who would save used kava in water in the fridge over night for the next day, but they didn't allude to the relevance of that extended steeping in relation to better extraction. Id like to try steeping kava in the fridge overnight , the cold temperatures should help keep off mold or other things that could ruin it for 8 hours. I brew cold brew green or sometimes black tea every night already to decrease acidity. But after an 8 hour soak, id think the plasticity of the root contents should increase for better extraction.
Anyone tried anything similar?
It certainly won't harm you or anything to steep your kava so steep as much as you like. I never noticed a bit of difference, although, properly speaking, dry root must be rehydrated and that needs to be accounted for in the water ratio of the first wash, for example. I find it rehydrates very quickly and very well, though.
 
D

Deleted User01

I have to admit, I have not used steeping. I made a batch of powda the other day and I blended it first and then kneaded the fool out of it and it was very good. Perhaps @verticity (Mr. Science Guy) can weight in on this subject. I would say that steeping would certainly not hurt and maybe make it easier for the Kavalactones to release when you squeeze but I don't know the science behind it.
 

Zac Imiola (Herbalist)

Kava Connoisseur
Cold tends to pull more heady constituents where hot pulls more heavy and heady and balances it out more.

There's a balance to it I'm my experience, the best kava for me is when I get it just hot enough to get the oils flowing like crazy but not so hot the starches all break apart .. I find this produces the most kava esk flavor .. usually I'm drinking Kava Supreme so it pulls out the chocolate spicy Vanuatu notes..

I'm excited for you to try and I'm going to try it out myself . I think @Krunkie McKrunkface should join us in this experiment. See what it can pull out of the plant experience wise. Not always kavalactones.
@Alia has much to say on that. Well enough
 

Krunkaroo

Kava Enthusiast
I too like to steep and shake and steep in my aluball over several hours, it comes out nice and milky this way.

The aluball creator mentioned about letting his kava sit overnight, you can ask him.

The blender method gives me dermo. same with micro :(
 

kastom_lif

Kava Lover
Hot water extraction makes my kava feel aggressive to me, anyone else?
Yes, mixing with hot water makes kava taste stronger.

I don't know if heavy KL's go into suspension more easily with extra heat, but hot water does make stronger kava. Water solubility of KL's is low. When you make a strong kava, you're creating an emulsion where the KL's are bound to starches.

(I wanna imagine Alton Brown doing a demonstration with starch molecules and kavalactones here.)

Cold water pulls out less oil, so the KL's mainly stick to starches. Kneading cold kava for a long time releases starch and you'll still get a strong drink if you keep kneading long enough.

Hot water helps pull more oil out of the root, which creates a Pickering emulsion in addition to the basic starch-water emulsion. It's the same principle as adding oil to kava. Yes the oil can dissolve KL's itself, plus it also increases the emulsion's carrying capacity by holding KL's at the water/oil interface.

Heavier KL's do tend to have slightly higher melting points. One might assume that higher temperatures might also increase those KL's tendency to go into emulsion.

The bottom of my blender has a hard sticky amber buildup of KL's that is nearly impossible to scrub off with soap and water. Even pouring boiling water in the blender just makes it turn gummy but doesn't dissolve it. I haven't tried rinsing the blender with oil or alcohol to see if it helps. Like the kava stains in a well-loved kumete, my blender wears its KL buildup with pride :)
 

Pounigirl

Kava Enthusiast
Cold tends to pull more heady constituents where hot pulls more heavy and heady and balances it out more.

There's a balance to it I'm my experience, the best kava for me is when I get it just hot enough to get the oils flowing like crazy but not so hot the starches all break apart .. I find this produces the most kava esk flavor .. usually I'm drinking Kava Supreme so it pulls out the chocolate spicy Vanuatu notes..

I'm excited for you to try and I'm going to try it out myself . I think @Krunkie McKrunkface should join us in this experiment. See what it can pull out of the plant experience wise. Not always kavalactones.
@Alia has much to say on that. Well enough
Do you have a temperature range that you shoot for or a way to gauge by feel when the water is hot enough? I want to try your method as I prefer more heavy to heady. :) Thanks. :)
 

kastom_lif

Kava Lover
Boiling: taste is really rough.
Too hot for bath water: strong, maybe tolerable taste.
Hot but you can still stick your finger in it: not too bad.

Oh and of course, after preparing i chill the kava with ice before drinking. Hot kava is pretty gross.
 

Pounigirl

Kava Enthusiast
Boiling: taste is really rough.
Too hot for bath water: strong, maybe tolerable taste.
Hot but you can still stick your finger in it: not too bad.

Oh and of course, after preparing i chill the kava with ice before drinking. Hot kava is pretty gross.
If you use super hot water and get a nasty tasting grog, is it only nasty while hot or even after chilling it down it's still gross? I'd try it out myself, but don't want to waste any precious kava! :p Figure it's better to just ask if you know. :) Thank you. :)
 

Donwanagan

Kava Curious
It certainly won't harm you or anything to steep your kava so steep as much as you like. I never noticed a bit of difference, although, properly speaking, dry root must be rehydrated and that needs to be accounted for in the water ratio of the first wash, for example. I find it rehydrates very quickly and very well, though.
So, i happen to know you try alot of prep methods based on your posts in the forums. Id like to get some knowledge out of you. What steep times have you experimented with?
 

Donwanagan

Kava Curious
I have to admit, I have not used steeping. I made a batch of powda the other day and I blended it first and then kneaded the fool out of it and it was very good. Perhaps @verticity (Mr. Science Guy) can weight in on this subject. I would say that steeping would certainly not hurt and maybe make it easier for the Kavalactones to release when you squeeze but I don't know the science behind it.
In a way, no one seems to know for sure the science behind it. It seems like we all are finding our own perfected preferences, with some going further then others, but otherwise, compared to other things like say 'green tea ' there is not as much bodies of scientific study, at least as far as i can easily find. Thus, bringing ne back to my observation on the great resource this forum actually is and how important it can be to share info and make conversation even if trivial!
 

Donwanagan

Kava Curious
Cold tends to pull more heady constituents where hot pulls more heavy and heady and balances it out more.

There's a balance to it I'm my experience, the best kava for me is when I get it just hot enough to get the oils flowing like crazy but not so hot the starches all break apart .. I find this produces the most kava esk flavor .. usually I'm drinking Kava Supreme so it pulls out the chocolate spicy Vanuatu notes..

I'm excited for you to try and I'm going to try it out myself . I think @Krunkie McKrunkface should join us in this experiment. See what it can pull out of the plant experience wise. Not always kavalactones.
@Alia has much to say on that. Well enough
When you say oils coming out,do you refer to a filmy cover on the top of the finished beverage? I've heard that the kavalactones rise and float and that this is them.
 

Donwanagan

Kava Curious
I too like to steep and shake and steep in my aluball over several hours, it comes out nice and milky this way.

The aluball creator mentioned about letting his kava sit overnight, you can ask him.

The blender method gives me dermo. same with micro :(
So, first thats the reason i want to opt away from the blender method as much as possible, thus far.
Much of what I've read concerning dermo refers to people who ingest the raw root in large quantities.
So when i think of the blender, i imagine it surely is pulling out the kavalactones through the whirlwind of intense water thrashing, but that ALSO its shredding the root into toy bits small enough to get through a strainer which over time means ingesting raw root.

Secondly, i did not know the inventor of the aluball recommended that. Ill have to check it out because to me that makes sense. Maybe im not good at kneading or just immensely lazy, but so far my best experiences are with the aluball!
 

Donwanagan

Kava Curious
Yes, mixing with hot water makes kava taste stronger.

I don't know if heavy KL's go into suspension more easily with extra heat, but hot water does make stronger kava. Water solubility of KL's is low. When you make a strong kava, you're creating an emulsion where the KL's are bound to starches.

(I wanna imagine Alton Brown doing a demonstration with starch molecules and kavalactones here.)

Cold water pulls out less oil, so the KL's mainly stick to starches. Kneading cold kava for a long time releases starch and you'll still get a strong drink if you keep kneading long enough.

Hot water helps pull more oil out of the root, which creates a Pickering emulsion in addition to the basic starch-water emulsion. It's the same principle as adding oil to kava. Yes the oil can dissolve KL's itself, plus it also increases the emulsion's carrying capacity by holding KL's at the water/oil interface.

Heavier KL's do tend to have slightly higher melting points. One might assume that higher temperatures might also increase those KL's tendency to go into emulsion.

The bottom of my blender has a hard sticky amber buildup of KL's that is nearly impossible to scrub off with soap and water. Even pouring boiling water in the blender just makes it turn gummy but doesn't dissolve it. I haven't tried rinsing the blender with oil or alcohol to see if it helps. Like the kava stains in a well-loved kumete, my blender wears its KL buildup with pride :)
this is all GREAT INFO, thank you!
 

kastom_lif

Kava Lover
If you use super hot water and get a nasty tasting grog, is it only nasty while hot or even after chilling it down it's still gross? I'd try it out myself, but don't want to waste any precious kava! :p Figure it's better to just ask if you know. :) Thank you. :)
Oh yes. Kava made with super hot water is still really strong tasting even after you chill it.
 

violet

Do all things with love
Early on I used to leave my second wash of kava soaking in the fridge over night. After some more kneading the next day those second washes were often as powerful as the good first ones. It could have been from inconsistencies in my kneading, but I do feel the overnight soak allowed for a better extraction. Perhaps it softened the root so more lactones could be worked out, maybe osmotic pressure from the water caused rupturing of the cell walls releasing the lactones. I think there were some others who remarked turning out a stronger grog after longer soaking as well.
 

kastom_lif

Kava Lover
When you say oils coming out,do you refer to a filmy cover on the top of the finished beverage? I've heard that the kavalactones rise and float and that this is them.
KL's are fairly dense compared to water. Plus they're solid at room temperatures. If anything, an oily film means there's oil which with KL's dissolved in it. Plus, oil+starch+water creates a potent emulsion which may be able to grab more KL's than plain water as you knead.

I think it's the combination of kneading plus having a liquid that can hold a large amount of KL's. I mean, like, you could just soak kava in acetone and get metric buttloads of lactones out, though I wouldn't want to drink it. Water, starch and oil makes a (mostly) drinkable emulsion that can grab onto big fat nonpolar organic molecules. The trick is that KL's stick to starch (regular emulsion) or clump at the oil/water boundary (Pickering emulsion), and getting the roots to give up their molecules requires kneading.

(Cue Alton Brown moving some D-cell batteries, pingpong balls and puppets around to visualize the chemistry...)

@violet, I like your idea about osmotic pressure and ruptured cell walls. Hmm, maybe ultrasonic "kneading" could make a potent kava? Maybe cryo-pulverize the kava? Or just get some kids to chew it and let their saliva enzymes loosen things up. Heh.
 
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Krunkaroo

Kava Enthusiast
Maybe im not good at kneading or just immensely lazy, but so far my best experiences are with the aluball!
My best experiences are with the ALuball as well, my strongest experiences are with Kneading. the strongest experiences are not the best experiences.
 
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