Kava and Akathisia

[maelstrom]

Does anyone else experience akathisia when they stop drinking kava after long-term daily use? I developed dermo on Saturday, quite suddenly, covering almost my entire body from the knees up. I'd like to stop drinking kava completely for a while, but the restless feeling is unbearable. Also, there have been two weekends in the last year and a half that I went out of town and forgot to bring kava, and I experienced this both times, so there seems to be a link. Has anyone experienced this, and is there any mechanism by which the cessation of kava consumption could cause akathisia? I think I'll have to try to taper off if the dermo doesn't get better.

 

[Groggy]

Does anyone else experience akathisia when they stop drinking kava after long-term daily use? I developed dermo on Saturday, quite suddenly, covering almost my entire body from the knees up. I'd like to stop drinking kava completely for a while, but the restless feeling is unbearable. Also, there have been two weekends in the last year and a half that I went out of town and forgot to bring kava, and I experienced this both times, so there seems to be a link. Has anyone experienced this, and is there any mechanism by which the cessation of kava consumption could cause akathisia? I think I'll have to try to taper off if the dermo doesn't get better.

There are no known side effects of stopping kava suddenly, as kava is not physically addictive. I stop all the time for different reasons (including dermo). My guess is you got used to the peacefulness of kava and now you are not drinking it. I don't know your medical history (nor am I a doctor) but I would guess it's psychological. @HeadHodge calls it happy feet.

 

[Deleted User01]

I have never had that but I'm a bad example. On my non kava days, I have a little scotch or wine or a few beers. So I'm always doing something Psycho-Active ... like a good little Psycho. I wish I were more of a boy scout and it didn't have to be that way ... but it is that way.

 

[chandra]

When I stop kava for more than a few days I start feeling horrible. Depression, pain, fatigue. I think for me it's symptoms of medical conditions coming back in full force when I don't have my kava, though. Like I go back to feeling like I did before I began drinking kava, but it feels worse because I'm used to not feeling that way.

 

[maelstrom]

Thanks for the responses. I don't think it's just "psychological" and I suspect it's caused by some kind of neurotransmitter issue. I don't know enough about akathisia or kava vis a vis neurotransmitters to be more specific. But I didn't have this problem when I didn't drink kava every day. Also, I don't have any medical conditions to speak of, don't take any medications, and stopping kava doesn't make me depressed or fatigued. It just makes me have this restless feeling over most of my body. I can't stay still. I have to constantly tense and stretch my muscles, move my arms and legs and shoulders, even my fingers. I can't sleep for more than a few hours, and even before I'm fully awake I experience the sensation.

Regardless of the cause, does anyone have any tips on treating this? (Besides more kava.)

 

[Groggy]

Pay your doctor a visit, he is the most qualified to answer your concerns, that's what I would do.

 

[Blinkyrocket]

Dopamine agonists and serotonin (5HT2a and 5HT2c) antagonists are most commonly and effectively prescribed for akathisia.

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

I'm not sure, but I recommend not drinking it every day but only as much as you did when you didn't have this issue

 

[maelstrom]

Pay your doctor a visit, he is the most qualified to answer your concerns, that's what I would do.

Granted, but I think the response would simply be to stop drinking kava completely and go from there if the problem persists.

Dopamine agonists and serotonin (5HT2a and 5HT2c) antagonists are most commonly and effectively prescribed for akathisia.

I'll see if there are any supplements I can try that are dopamine agonists or serotonin antagonists, but I'm a little hesitant to take either unless my situation gets much worse. I think that l-theanine has been helping slightly, and perhaps NAC.

I'm not sure, but I recommend not drinking it every day but only as much as you did when you didn't have this issue

That's what I've been thinking, too, even though it'll be a pain because of sleeping issues. I've been drinking a little less each day and the restlessness has improved each morning, so I'll try a day off soon and then make sure I take off two or three days a week.

 

[KrunkMunster]

There are no known side effects of stopping kava suddenly, as kava is not physically addictive. I stop all the time for different reasons (including dermo). My guess is you got used to the peacefulness of kava and now you are not drinkinI kng it. I don't know your medical history (nor am I a doctor) but I would guess it's psychological. @HeadHodge calls it happy feet.

This is touted quite a bit about Kava, but it really is only half true. Any activity we do or substance we ingest has the potential to raise dopamine levels, since it is the main brain chemical that says to our brain: Yes, this is good. Remember that and do it again. When we artificially do things that raise our dopamine levels over time, we can reset what our brain feels is baseline for dopamine levels in our body. When we stop artificially raising the dopamine levels, there will be discomfort. Obviously this is going to vary alot from person to person.

While Kavalactones many not be physically addictive, there are other things going on with our brain chemistry when we ingest kava to make ourselves feel better. Note: I'm not trying to dis Kava in anyway. The same thing happens to people who use sugar (or other artificial means) to achieve a feeling of well being.

I just think we need to be careful about saying Kava is completely non-addictive. Addiction is an extremely complex condition.

 

[Groggy]

This is touted quite a bit about Kava, but it really is only half true. Any activity we do or substance we ingest has the potential to raise dopamine levels, since it is the main brain chemical that says to our brain: Yes, this is good. Remember that and do it again. When we artificially do things that raise our dopamine levels over time, we can reset what our brain feels is baseline for dopamine levels in our body. When we stop artificially raising the dopamine levels, there will be discomfort. Obviously this is going to vary alot from person to person.

While Kavalactones many not be physically addictive, there are other things going on with our brain chemistry when we ingest kava to make ourselves feel better. Note: I'm not trying to dis Kava in anyway. The same thing happens to people who use sugar (or other artificial means) to achieve a feeling of well being.

I just think we need to be careful about saying Kava is completely non-addictive. Addiction is an extremely complex condition.

I didn't say kava is completely non-addictive, I said it was not physically addictive. I also said I am not a doctor and perhaps the advice of a real one should be considered.
Many other things raise dopamine levels besides sugar. Sex, Exercise, food, music just to name a few. It is the lack of dopamine in many cases that should be looked at and not the other way around. Dopamine is very important for the human brain.
Granted anything in excess is typically not good, but what else is new? Last I checked, kava is a plant, it is natural so we are not artificially increasing our dopamine levels.

 

[KrunkMunster]

Granted anything in excess is typically not good, but what else is new? Last I checked, kava is a plant, it is natural so we are not artificially increasing our dopamine levels.

Totally agree about things in excess. I was trying to help the OP. The OP and also the commenter in post #4 described symptoms common of someone with dopamine levels running below baseline. Kava may be a plant, but it can increase dopamine levels above what one would experience in regular day-to-day life because it makes us feel good. This can result in a persons "normal," as far as dopamine levels go, being set higher than it would be without it. When you stop ingesting the thing that increases dopamine baseline, you can feel crappy. Much literature on the topic refers to this as artificial, but maybe it isn't the best term in this venue. Example: http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2015/04/17/how-to-increase-dopamine-levels/

 

[Groggy]

Totally agree about things in excess. I was trying to help the OP. The OP and also the commenter in post #4 described symptoms common of someone with dopamine levels running below baseline. Kava may be a plant, but it can increase dopamine levels above what one would experience in regular day-to-day life because it makes us feel good. This can result in a persons "normal," as far as dopamine levels go, being set higher than it would be without it. When you stop ingesting the thing that increases dopamine baseline, you can feel crappy. Much literature on the topic refers to this as artificial, but maybe it isn't the best term in this venue. Example: http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2015/04/17/how-to-increase-dopamine-levels/

I totally agree with that as well that in essence is what defines addiction.

 

[Palmetto]

I thought Akathisia was a separatist republic in the Caucasus region....just kidding

 

[PsyGuru]

Dopamine agonists and serotonin (5HT2a and 5HT2c) antagonists are most commonly and effectively prescribed for akathisia.

Propranolol (beta- blocker/ blood pressure medication) is typically prescribed for akathisia associated with anti-psychotic medicaitons.

Sometimes it is hard to distinguish between akathisia and anxiety. Akathisia is often described as not being able to sit still, muscles crawling out of the skin, etc.

 

[maelstrom]

Totally agree about things in excess. I was trying to help the OP. The OP and also the commenter in post #4 described symptoms common of someone with dopamine levels running below baseline. Kava may be a plant, but it can increase dopamine levels above what one would experience in regular day-to-day life because it makes us feel good. This can result in a persons "normal," as far as dopamine levels go, being set higher than it would be without it. When you stop ingesting the thing that increases dopamine baseline, you can feel crappy. Much literature on the topic refers to this as artificial, but maybe it isn't the best term in this venue. Example: http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2015/04/17/how-to-increase-dopamine-levels/

I've got some macuna pruriens sitting around, I think I'll try it.

Propranolol (beta- blocker/ blood pressure medication) is typically prescribed for akathisia associated with anti-psychotic medicaitons.

Sometimes it is hard to distinguish between akathisia and anxiety. Akathisia is often described as not being able to sit still, muscles crawling out of the skin, etc.

Not being able to keep still, muscles crawling, etc. is exactly what I've been experiencing.

 

[chandra]

Totally agree about things in excess. I was trying to help the OP. The OP and also the commenter in post #4 described symptoms common of someone with dopamine levels running below baseline. Kava may be a plant, but it can increase dopamine levels above what one would experience in regular day-to-day life because it makes us feel good. This can result in a persons "normal," as far as dopamine levels go, being set higher than it would be without it. When you stop ingesting the thing that increases dopamine baseline, you can feel crappy. Much literature on the topic refers to this as artificial, but maybe it isn't the best term in this venue. Example: http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2015/04/17/how-to-increase-dopamine-levels/

That's very interesting. Is it possible that kava is actually "normalizing" dopamine levels in my case? I have had phsycial withdrawls from other substances (years ago), and the way I feel without kava does feel like a kind of withdrawl, at least for me. So the dopamine thing makes sense.