Kava Botany The real reason why kava is sterile
- Thread starter Palmetto
- Start date
Palmetto
Thank God!
"Counts of about 130 mitotic chromosomes were obtained for P. methysticum, P. wichmannii, and P. gibbilimbum. In P. methysticum, 12 chromosomes were four to five times the average size of the others, while chromosomes in the other taxa were more uniform (P. gibbilimbum, P. wichmannii). No obvious variation in chromosome numbers was apparent between P. methysticum clones representing different morphotypes and chemotypes or between monoecious and dioecious plants. Chromosome counts obtained from pollen mother cells of P. methysticum showed about 65 bivalents. Although tetrad formation appeared normal, cotton blue staining revealed poorly formed pollen grains."
"Geographic Survey of Genetic Variation in Kava (Piper methysticum Forst. f. and P. wichmannii C.", Lebot 1991
Those larger chromosomes probably contain multiplied copies of the genes involved in the production of kavain and yangonin, plus the conversion of dihydromethysticin to methysticin. Multiplication of beneficial gene copies is a very common form of evolution in species. The evolution in this case, is human selection, not survival selection. The tetrad formation occurs in early meiosis, where the sperm and ova are created. That slightly suggests against my theory of mismatched chromosome sizes, but only slightly. The poor pollen formation slightly suggests that hybridization with wichmannii could reinstate fertility, if wichmannii were the pollen source. I found a source for wichmannii, but not all forms of wichmannii can produce seeds, so I need to find out if it's a PNG source or a Vanuatu source.
So I know of a brute force way to create infertile hybrids when the cause is due to mismatched chromosomes, or there is the approach of cross breeding with wichmannii, and recrossing with noble cultivars to remove the non noble traits. The brute force way is faster and could create some high kavalactone % fully noble hybrids, but the fertile hybrid method has more long term potential for improving the quality of cultivars of many generations.
"Geographic Survey of Genetic Variation in Kava (Piper methysticum Forst. f. and P. wichmannii C.", Lebot 1991
Those larger chromosomes probably contain multiplied copies of the genes involved in the production of kavain and yangonin, plus the conversion of dihydromethysticin to methysticin. Multiplication of beneficial gene copies is a very common form of evolution in species. The evolution in this case, is human selection, not survival selection. The tetrad formation occurs in early meiosis, where the sperm and ova are created. That slightly suggests against my theory of mismatched chromosome sizes, but only slightly. The poor pollen formation slightly suggests that hybridization with wichmannii could reinstate fertility, if wichmannii were the pollen source. I found a source for wichmannii, but not all forms of wichmannii can produce seeds, so I need to find out if it's a PNG source or a Vanuatu source.
So I know of a brute force way to create infertile hybrids when the cause is due to mismatched chromosomes, or there is the approach of cross breeding with wichmannii, and recrossing with noble cultivars to remove the non noble traits. The brute force way is faster and could create some high kavalactone % fully noble hybrids, but the fertile hybrid method has more long term potential for improving the quality of cultivars of many generations.
HeadHodge
Bula To Eternity
Last edited:
HeadHodge
Bula To Eternity
If you're still getting seeds after 4 hours, see your local botanist or nursery immediately.
Capitán Bastos
Presanteur
Did someone say...potato?
verticity
I'm interested in things
No, I said po-tah-to
verticity
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Interesting. @Capitán Bastos needs to know about this...
Capitán Bastos
Presanteur
I prefer toetaters.
Lies, lies, lies! It's this kind of rhetoric that's screwing up America! Everyone knows that's just something people on a diet say to everyone else enjoying their tasty beverages! Let it be known that Diet Dr Pepper is nothing like the original!
verticity
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That's right... Diet Dr. Pepper is better than the original.
That's right... Diet Dr. Pepper is better than the original.
verticity
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It is true that there is a long history of scientists with good intentions promoting "better" versions of things that turned out not to be "better". In this case it was Lebot himself who brought Isa to Hawaii, which I'm sure he seriously regrets doing now.
On the other hand the "Green Revolution" (new technology for growing wheat and rice) in India is credited with preventing famine and saving many lives. It was/is not without controversy, though. I'd be interested to hear @Kavasseur 's take on that...
Kojo Douglas
The Kavasseur
@verticity
I'm generally not a fan of "green revolution" agricultural development strategies. The general trend with them is that they are initially very successful, but end up bottoming out some years down the road. The assumption with "green revolution" approaches is that intensifying crop production and getting higher yields is a good thing. In fact, it is highly related to Western-style agronomics and depends on a system of expensive hybrid seed and fertilizer, large harvest, storage, arbitrage, and strengthened value chains. Farmers will be suckered into taking some kind of relatively expensive loan ($100 at a 2-3% interest rate) mostly consisting of fertilizers, and they'll be incentivized to produce enough of the surplus to pay it back and then make a little "extra" money. Typically, these are programs focused on maize and other grains. Farmers will be expected to produce a certain variety and quality of maize, and will actually let other crops wither because they know the NGO or government agency only wants the particular variety. This leads to monocropping and a system depending on one or two feedback loops.
When a country hits a stage where there is a rapid urbanization and the deserting of farmlands, these kinds of tactics tend to work better. People might buy up larger and larger plots of land to produce more maize and feed the people who have moved away from agriculture. Again, the issue here is that these crops initially do well, but the soil becomes eroded over time and loses its structure.
And yes, as Oscar Wilde said "it is with the best intentions that the worst things are done." Though this isn't always the case, many interventions are designed by people who have no idea what they're doing. It really takes a good anthropologist with local knowledge to anticipate unintended consequences. Usually the people know what is or isn't a good idea, but will never turn away free money or value-added assistance.
I'm generally not a fan of "green revolution" agricultural development strategies. The general trend with them is that they are initially very successful, but end up bottoming out some years down the road. The assumption with "green revolution" approaches is that intensifying crop production and getting higher yields is a good thing. In fact, it is highly related to Western-style agronomics and depends on a system of expensive hybrid seed and fertilizer, large harvest, storage, arbitrage, and strengthened value chains. Farmers will be suckered into taking some kind of relatively expensive loan ($100 at a 2-3% interest rate) mostly consisting of fertilizers, and they'll be incentivized to produce enough of the surplus to pay it back and then make a little "extra" money. Typically, these are programs focused on maize and other grains. Farmers will be expected to produce a certain variety and quality of maize, and will actually let other crops wither because they know the NGO or government agency only wants the particular variety. This leads to monocropping and a system depending on one or two feedback loops.
When a country hits a stage where there is a rapid urbanization and the deserting of farmlands, these kinds of tactics tend to work better. People might buy up larger and larger plots of land to produce more maize and feed the people who have moved away from agriculture. Again, the issue here is that these crops initially do well, but the soil becomes eroded over time and loses its structure.
And yes, as Oscar Wilde said "it is with the best intentions that the worst things are done." Though this isn't always the case, many interventions are designed by people who have no idea what they're doing. It really takes a good anthropologist with local knowledge to anticipate unintended consequences. Usually the people know what is or isn't a good idea, but will never turn away free money or value-added assistance.
verticity
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So, for that reason, do you think it worked better in India than in Africa?
Kojo Douglas
The Kavasseur
Yes, but I'm not sure that it worked all that well in India either. In Africa, it was heralded as a miracle, but people couldn't keep up with payments to seed companies and fertilizer companies. When they "fell back," they had lost their native seeds and cuttings, and had large tracts of leached and eroded soils.
verticity
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I guess that's the problem: farmers become beholden to big agro companies. Unfortunately, with genetically engineered kava there is a very real danger that would happen. That's why I am against patents on GMO seeds, or in the case of kava, cuttings... Alas, I'm probably pissing into the wind here...
Kojo Douglas
The Kavasseur
Oh, patents on crops are terrible. Bio-piracy has become a huge problem. Pharmaceutical companies have stolen plants that indigenous people have used for millenia and patented them.