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Kosher/halal and other religious certifications of kava

TheKavaSociety

TheKavaSociety

New Zealand
Kava Vendor
We had this little exchange in another thread and it wasn't really related to the main topic of that thread so I moving our posts here in case anyone is interested in reading about or discussing kosher, halal or other religious certification for kava.

There is actually one kava vendor from Fiji who claims to be selling kosher kava and they send some certificates signed by a Californian rabbi a few years ago to back their claims. I personally do not really understand how a rabbi from California can guarantee that this product is made in this or that way without visiting the farms/processing plants (or maybe he has visited these places), but maybe some people do. I personally don't really care about whether or not something is kosher so it's not a problem for me, but again, maybe some people are concerned about this.
 
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verticity

verticity

I'm interested in things
Or maybe the target consumers are the 0.1% of the population of New Zealand who are Jewish?

There are actually many different kosher certifying agencies. That particular one appears to be a legitimate one. If that kava actually is certified by that agency, then it can perfectly legitimately claim to be kosher. "Kosher" isn't really a scientific claim; the fact that the kosher certifying agency isn't individually testing or blessing each bag of kava doesn't mean it is not kosher.

Whether you consider the concept of "kosher" to make sense is a different matter.
 
TheKavaSociety

TheKavaSociety

New Zealand
Kava Vendor
I know, but if I was concerned about keeping kosher I would probably wonder if this rabbi has actually ever been to Fiji etc. Or maybe I wouldnt. I dont know. Different ppl have different standards.

Ps. Very few nz jews are strict about only eating kosher stuff kosher, but I know a few who seem to be quite strict and they drink kava :)
 
verticity

verticity

I'm interested in things
Henry said:
I know, but if I was concerned about keeping kosher I would probably wonder if this rabbi has actually ever been to Fiji etc. Or maybe I wouldnt. I dont know. Different ppl have different standards.

Ps. Very few nz jews are strict about only eating kosher stuff kosher, but I know a few who seem to be quite strict and they drink kava :)
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As far as I understand, the certification just means that the product meets certain standards: if it is produced in a facility where both milk and meat are processed, they would need to inspect the facility to make sure the milk and meat operations are separate, so that the meat never comes in contact with the milk, etc. In the case of something like kava, I don't know if they would actually need to physically inspect the facility. They probably just ask about it, are told the "facility" consists of a place outdoors where the kava is sun dried, and a hammer mill used to grind it. They probably wouldn't spend the money for the plane ticket to go make sure the hammer mill is not also used to make ground beef and cheese. So they just consider the fact that kava is not forbidden, and say "OK, sounds Kosher" Which is kind of a ridiculous formality in the case of kava. Probably any kava would qualify as "kosher" without a certificate of any kind.
 
verticity

verticity

I'm interested in things
I don't know. I actually have a lot of friends who are Jewish, and as far as I know none of them care about keeping Kosher. On the other hand, none of my Jewish friends are Orthodox..
 
verticity

verticity

I'm interested in things
A Jewish joke relayed by one of my friends:

"A man brings some very fine material to a tailor and asks him to make a pair of pants. When he comes back a week later, the pants are not ready. Two weeks later, they still are not ready. Finally, after six weeks, the pants are ready. The man tries them on. They fit perfectly. Nonetheless, when it comes time to pay, he can’t resist a jibe at the tailor. 'You know,' he says, 'it took God only six days to make the world. And it took you six weeks to make just one pair of pants.' 'Ah,' the tailor says. 'But look at this pair of pants, and look at the world!' "
 
NAMBATU

NAMBATU

Kava Enthusiast
There are certification mills for both halal and kosher status. Only a few organisations have widespread recognition.
 
verticity

verticity

I'm interested in things
Henry said:
We had this little exchange in another thread and it wasn't really related to the main topic of that thread so I moving our posts here in case anyone is interested in reading about or discussing kosher, halal or other religious certification for kava.

There is actually one kava vendor from Fiji who claims to be selling kosher kava and they send some certificates signed by a Californian rabbi a few years ago to back their claims. I personally do not really understand how a rabbi from California can guarantee that this product is made in this or that way without visiting the farms/processing plants (or maybe he has visited these places), but maybe some people do. I personally don't really care about whether or not something is kosher so it's not a problem for me, but again, maybe some people are concerned about this.
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What is this witchcraft? I 'liked' this post, but I have never read it before!:confused:
 
TheKavaSociety

TheKavaSociety

New Zealand
Kava Vendor
feel free to unlike it mate. I had to edit the post as its first part referred to our discussion in a different thread. Apologies for not communicating it clearly!

This is the original post (from our different thread) for your reference:

"One more point: some people say "well, cut these guys some slack, any kind of testing is better than none, you should focus on the kona kavas and kavadotcoms of this industry". To a degree this is a fair point. At the same time, I do think that those who make claims about specific chemical properties, purity and guaranteed top quality do have to be prepared to face extra scrutiny. E.g. few food companies sell kosher food, but those who do claim that their food is kosher should be prepared to answer many questions about the authority that issues them their certificates, their production methods, etc etc. There is actually one kava vendor from Fiji who claims to be selling kosher kava and they send some certificates signed by a New York rabbi a few years ago to back their claims. In my humble opinion, this certificate is not very credible. But I don't really care about whether or not something is kosher so I don't question it. However, if the evidence used to support their claim about kavalactone content etc was of the same quality, I would indeed ask them many, many questions."
 
verticity

verticity

I'm interested in things
moff000 said:
ORGANIC!!
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Yes, "Organic". But "Organic" actually means something very specific and you need to meet strict government regulations to call your product "Organic". The one that really cracks me up is products that could not possibly contain wheat flour, such as rice or water, being touted as "gluten free". Technically completely true. Also, a ridiculous thing to even specify.
 
verticity

verticity

I'm interested in things
Henry said:
feel free to unlike it mate. I had to edit the post as its first part referred to our discussion in a different thread. Apologies for not communicating it clearly!

This is the original post (from our different thread) for your reference:

"One more point: some people say "well, cut these guys some slack, any kind of testing is better than none, you should focus on the kona kavas and kavadotcoms of this industry". To a degree this is a fair point. At the same time, I do think that those who make claims about specific chemical properties, purity and guaranteed top quality do have to be prepared to face extra scrutiny. E.g. few food companies sell kosher food, but those who do claim that their food is kosher should be prepared to answer many questions about the authority that issues them their certificates, their production methods, etc etc. There is actually one kava vendor from Fiji who claims to be selling kosher kava and they send some certificates signed by a New York rabbi a few years ago to back their claims. In my humble opinion, this certificate is not very credible. But I don't really care about whether or not something is kosher so I don't question it. However, if the evidence used to support their claim about kavalactone content etc was of the same quality, I would indeed ask them many, many questions."
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I know, I was just bustin' yer coconuts, mate. The text of this post was so different from the original, that it seems like a different post. But I like this one too. :)
 
TheKavaSociety

TheKavaSociety

New Zealand
Kava Vendor
verticity said:
Yes, "Organic". But "Organic" actually means something very specific and you need to meet strict government regulations to call your product "Organic". The one that really cracks me up is products that could not possibly contain wheat flour, such as rice or water, being touted as "gluten free". Technically completely true. Also, a ridiculous thing to even specify.
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Kava King advertise their kava as "certified vegan" or even "the only certified vegan kava". :)
The "kosher kava" vendor from Fiji is also "certified vegetarian".
 
FYS

FYS

Shell Shocked
verticity said:
Yes, "Organic". But "Organic" actually means something very specific and you need to meet strict government regulations to call your product "Organic". The one that really cracks me up is products that could not possibly contain wheat flour, such as rice or water, being touted as "gluten free". Technically completely true. Also, a ridiculous thing to even specify.
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Its gotten to the point where you have to have it on everything even if it is something that obviously is gluten free. You wouldn't believe how many people come in and claim to have celiac disease and cannot have gluten and then order something that clearly has gluten in it and when we go through what all we have and that a lot of the stuff we can't serve because of possible cross contamination they end up saying its fine and order something with gluten in it anyway.

In some ways the gluten free craze is great. Just a few years ago it was a lot more difficult for someone with celiac disease but now there are a ton of options. On the other hand all people just jumping on the fad for no reason really grind my gears.
 
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