Research shows kava is not so bad for driving
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Krunkie McKrunkface
Kava Connoisseur
Mmmm, 32x greater than pharmacologically recommended doses. I never realised there was that much fun to be had in New Zealand. What we do in the shadows, indeed.
Seriously, though, I think krunk is out, but anything below that is mostly ok as long as people just use common sense. And avoid driving after heavy kava pate at night when you might fall asleep.
Seriously, though, I think krunk is out, but anything below that is mostly ok as long as people just use common sense. And avoid driving after heavy kava pate at night when you might fall asleep.
kastom_lif
Kava Lover
So where's the study?
Aporosa
Newbie
No, the conference was the British Association of Psychopharmacology. Check out where its sits on the prestigious ranking. Presentation are peer reviewed for authenticity and reliability. I can assure you this study had plenty of checks and ballances is is not some bodgy back-street investigation.
Aporosa
Newbie
Check the latest edition of the Journal of Psychopharmacology with a more detailed paper on its way
Aporosa
Newbie
The data was re-analysed by a stats expert as I was not happy with the findings (that kava does not impact reaction and divided attention). I believe it would be very unwise to jump to the conclusion that there is no effect. I believe it comes down to cognitive test selection. Kava research at these high consumption rates is new and we believed we selected the right cognitive tests (last year) - these are industry standard assessments of driver fitness. With what we have learned we will now use alternative tests.
@Aporosa, thank you for doing what you do.
Zac Imiola (Herbalist)
Kava Connoisseur
I was just thinking hey that guys name is in the article ! Haha
Supposed pharmacologically recommended doses are usually ridiculously low. Something like 70mg-200 mg total. The upper end, 200 mg, might be equivalent to one mild/medium strength shell. That could be effective, for very light stress or anxiety relief, and I guess it's understandable that 'official' recommendations would rather play it safe than sorry...but most kava drinking nations appear to well exceed that dose, rightly so.
In Vanuatu, where it's typically the strongest, I think it's been said that shells can range from about 200-500 mg of kavalactones each. Regular consumption of 2000+ mg per session isn't uncommon. Even in Fiji where this mix is much weaker, the guys drink it for longer stretches which probably makes it equal out to the same overall amount of kavalactones as Vanuatu.
As for the driving thing, I've said this before and still feel the same way:
That being said, I appreciate any good science that puts kava in a positive light and helps build a solid ground for it's continued legality.
The palagi mix is always safe for driving:
In Vanuatu, where it's typically the strongest, I think it's been said that shells can range from about 200-500 mg of kavalactones each. Regular consumption of 2000+ mg per session isn't uncommon. Even in Fiji where this mix is much weaker, the guys drink it for longer stretches which probably makes it equal out to the same overall amount of kavalactones as Vanuatu.
As for the driving thing, I've said this before and still feel the same way:
I know it's just anecdotal and it's not proper science, but it's so apparent to me, that kava seems fine for driving up until the point where you get hit with a 'peak' experience. The kava rush, a flood of kavalactones, undeniably 'krunked' and inebriated. Everything about that experience would drastically hinder driving performance. The good news is that the krunk experience strongly encourages you to sit down and enjoy it and discourages you from attempting any focused activity such as driving.
That being said, I appreciate any good science that puts kava in a positive light and helps build a solid ground for it's continued legality.
The palagi mix is always safe for driving:
Indeed, most non-native or 'western' kava drinkers seem to only find kava as a solution for a problem that already exists and thus don't get to use kava to 'prevent bad things' from ever happening in the first place. But when kava is used to 'treat' a condition you are still using it to prevent bad things...from continuing to happen unchecked. They are part and parcel, two different ways of saying the same thing. No doubt, if kava were understood, introduced and encouraged in people's lives early & often, then it could preemptively spare many people from addiction, insomnia or unnecessary anxiety etc..
Anyway, I seem to have veered this thread a bit off course, I'll try to steer it back to it's original topic by saying...when it comes to drinking kava and driving, I've noticed that even just being the passenger in a car while being grogged up is fairly unpleasant and I prefer to avoid it. Something about it tends to add to the stomach discomfort I'm prone to.
Krunkie McKrunkface
Kava Connoisseur
Yeah, you can drive after kava, or go somewhere, but why would you want to? Kava makes *here* better, just as it does with now.Anyway, I seem to have veered this thread a bit off course, I'll try to steer it back to it's original topic by saying...when it comes to drinking kava and driving, I've noticed that even just being the passenger in a car while being grogged up is fairly unpleasant and I prefer to avoid it. Something about it tends to add to the stomach discomfort I'm prone to.
Krunkie McKrunkface
Kava Connoisseur
Amen, brother. Amen. A farthermicken men. Would have saved me 50 years out of my life, but whatever. Better late than never. Kava is consolation.
Aporosa
Newbie
"Kava drinkers may be safer drivers than drunks, new research has found... But [a] University of Waikato researcher ... said no one should jump to conclusions..."
https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/95239695/hazy-results-for-waikato-university-kava-study
https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/95239695/hazy-results-for-waikato-university-kava-study
Krunkie McKrunkface
Kava Connoisseur
He
Hey, that's you in the article! Cool. Thanks for posting. Nice pic. And your missus seems really nice, too!
kastom_lif
Kava Lover
Yes, thank you for sharing and for doing this research. You've done a good job internalising a complicated situation.
The question remains through: if Siaosi is fully cut, can you grab his ghost chips?
The question remains through: if Siaosi is fully cut, can you grab his ghost chips?
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verticity
I'm interested in things
I do appreciate your comments there:
"Casualties from road accidents are the leading cause of hospitalisation for Pasifika men and women in New Zealand. Aporosa, a former police officer, said anecdotal reports suggest this could be linked to consumption of kava.
Since the study, Aporosa said he has met with police, who were also surprised by the findings.
In light of these results, he will hold off on public awareness campaigns he would have carried out if kava had been found to badly affect driving ability.
"One of my concerns at the moment is that Pacifikans could potentially hear that Apo's done these tests and go, Look! We're fine to drive!
"I think that is a mistake to jump to that conclusion, I think we still need to be very careful."
Since the study, Aporosa said he has met with police, who were also surprised by the findings.
In light of these results, he will hold off on public awareness campaigns he would have carried out if kava had been found to badly affect driving ability.
"One of my concerns at the moment is that Pacifikans could potentially hear that Apo's done these tests and go, Look! We're fine to drive!
"I think that is a mistake to jump to that conclusion, I think we still need to be very careful."
especially your concerns about how to talk about these findings. So, on the one hand, "anecdotal reports" suggest that kava could be causing increased accidents. But these preliminary findings would seem to contradict that. So I can appreciate your caution in not wanting to encourage people to drive after drinking kava. I know from personal experience that on some occasions when I have drunk a lot of kava--probably way too much--I have had symptoms like dizziness, blurred vision and muscle incoordination that would have make it very dangerous if I had tried to drive (which I didn't). So, as a community of kava drinkers, we really don't want to encourage anyone to drive if they have been drinking a lot, or even a moderate amount, of kava, because common sense tells us that it can be dangerous. But on the other hand, we don't want to ignore the science. And I understand these results are preliminary: you need to verify them, and figure out what is actually going on in more detail. But when the true effect of kava drinking on driving is understood better, it would behoove us to be honest about the results. If it does turn out that kava is less dangerous than alcohol for driving, people should know that information. That could actually be life saving information, if you say something like: "We know that both alcohol and kava can cause impaired driving, but we also know that alcohol is more impairing than kava. We don't recommend driving under the influence of anything, though. And if you combine kava with alcohol it is extremely dangerous..." Maybe someone hearing that would choose to drink kava instead of alcohol. And hopefully they won't get behind the wheel no matter what, but if they do, the consequences could on average be less severe. If you get a less dramatic scientific result than you expected with kava, you still need to talk about it, is what I'm trying to say. People will talk anyway. But I understand that it is a very delicate situation, because you don't want to cause harm by making people think that there is officially zero danger associated with drinking kava and driving, when that is not true at all.
Regarding the "anecdotal reports" I really wonder how much of that is just kava vs. a combination of alcohol and kava, and possibly other things? In other words, if someone gets in an accident and they are found to have been drinking alcohol and kava, since alcohol is so much more commonplace, the anecdote that the police tell about the incident might emphasize the fact that kava was involved and gloss over the alcohol.
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