Bad Reaction and Fever from Kava

[Kevin1991]

Hi Guys im a bit concerned about taking kava now because on Saturday i took kava and the next day fealt really ill with a fever of 102 F and bad hives/rash. I've been taking kava for about two months on the weekends. I Actually had a reaction about 3 weeks ago as i've been using the extract pills in combination with the prepared root, i sort of chalked this up to mixing the extract pills. I didnt really do anything for my skin other than moisturize, which caused it to go away after about 4 days. The weekend following i had some prepared root with no ill effects, same thing the weekend following.

The order of events on saturday:
6:00PM, Glass of red wine with dinner.
9:00PM, Loa Waka Kalm with Kava 6 TB strained via blender method to make two strong shells consumed an hour apart.
11:00PM, 1 TB toss and wash (Kalm with kava boronogoru) and one extract pill


I woke up sunday feeling like crap and completely covered in a hot rash all over my entire body...i've never had it this bad before. Wife gave me two benedryl and not long after i started to get a headache and feverish. By the evening i had a serious fever of 102F. The wife also prepared an epsom salt bath for me and rubbed baking soda and water on my body. Its monday now, surprisingly the rash is mostly gone just woke up with a headache.

So im not sure what to think, i know you're not supposed to mix alcohol and kava but would a glass of red wine with dinner really make a difference? Its not like i do this every day. Also i know that toss and wash is bad so i will never do that again, but is it also possible that the extract pills should not be consumed with the prepared root and that caused adverse reactions?

In all honestly i can deal with the skin issues but the fever and basically like im sick i can deal with.

 

[Groggy]

Don't mix Alcohol and kava 3 hours apart, toss and wash and add an unknown extract and expect to feel great the next day. I am not sure what your goal was but more than likely that was not a good idea or combination. I am not a doctor so that's my opinion.

You're likely very dehydrated, drink plenty of fluids and perhaps some coconut water or a Gatorade to help replenish your electrolytes faster. In the future, I would recommend you chose kava or alcohol for the night.

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

Don't mix Alcohol and kava 3 hours apart, toss and wash and add an unknown extract and expect to feel great the next day. I am not sure what your goal was but more than likely that was not a good idea or combination. I am not a doctor so that's my opinion.

You're likely very dehydrated, drink plenty of fluids and perhaps some coconut water or a Gatorade to help replenish your electrolytes faster. In the future, I would recommend you chose kava or alcohol for the night.

There's all that, plus possibly a nasty cold that's been going around the country which gives many people some flu-like symptoms like what OP describes.

There's nothing inherently super bad about very occasional small amounts of toss n' wash all on its own. Toss n' wash gets "bad" when you do it frequently or in conjunction with other things that don't go well with it. One thing to consider about the blender and strainer method, though, is it is really like a variant of toss n' wash that strains out the larger chunks of sediment, leaving the smaller chunks to go to your stomach, which is why the blender and strainer method tends to give a more intense krunk than trad prep. Also why it more likely promotes dermo, IME.

Also, the rule on kava and alcohol, aside from don't mix, is if you do mix, kava first, then small amount of alcohol, not alcohol before kava.

Finally, if in doubt, just stick with straight trad prep grog. If you have a bunch of kava drinking experience, then it is OK to experiment with lots of variations, I guess, but starting out, straight grog is never a bad idea. How to know when it's time? I dunno, but you could do a lot worse than using as a cut-off point the moment when you no longer hate the taste of kava and just want it straight and savour it and look forward to it. At that point you've already become basically a hopeless self-mutated freak. We should get an official pin or a T-shirt or something for that, I think.

 

[Groggy]

There's all that, plus possibly a nasty cold that's been going around the country which gives many people some flu-like symptoms like what OP describes.

If this is the case, it stands to reason the OP would feel ill beyond the consumption of either kava or Alcohol and beyond 12-24 hours.

 

[The Kap'n]

Echoing the replies above, the red wine probably did you in. That red flush and rash are very characteristic of drinking kava and alcohol too closely together. The fever, however, isn't a normal sign, but strangely enough I've had a good number of people reporting bad effects after taking kava that were, in fact, sick with a cold and it just happened to be a coincidence.

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

This sounds like another case of personal biochemistry to me, I could probably drink a glass of red wine, and waka, and unknown extract and still not have the same reaction as you.

Some people are allergic to the sulfites in wine, there's a small fraction of people that get a legit allergic to kava, or certain kavas and extracts are a just wild card. On top of that, while you might not notice being allergic to one substance on its own, combining other things with it, might trigger a more severe reaction.

If you want to press on, I'd recommend taking the kava on its own, when your body's clear of any alcohol, extracts, or medications. If that goes smooth, you can start trying the other things with it, if you want to determine which item or combo is causing the reaction.

 

[ThePiper]

If you had a 102 fever I bet you got the flu. Mixing alcohol and kava probably made your immune system take a hit and that might be why those events coincided

 

[Kevin1991]

Very well could have been a response to a lowered immune system due to allergic reaction. I didnt really think a glass of red wine with dinner would have made a difference with the kava. At any rate i will stick to the 12-24 rule for alcohol with no exceptions. Im really curious though about the blender method, is this really just like toss and wash and more likely to cause issues compared to traditional prep?

 

[Groggy]

Very well could have been a response to a lowered immune system due to allergic reaction. I didnt really think a glass of red wine with dinner would have made a difference with the kava. At any rate i will stick to the 12-24 rule for alcohol with no exceptions. Im really curious though about the blender method, is this really just like toss and wash and more likely to cause issues compared to traditional prep?

Blend it and strain it through a 75 micron bag.

Kneading by itself is also adequate, takes 5-10 minutes.

 

[Kevin1991]

Blend it and strain it through a 75 micron bag.

Kneading by itself is adequate, takes 5-10 minutes.

Thanks, so if i use nylons i usually cut off a length and put a knot on both ends. Can i knead it in this? Kneading seems alot easier to cleanup anyways...just a single bowl and less spills as i already clogged my dishwasher and had to clean that out washing the blender after and not rinsing it properly. Although nylons are not food grade, i would hope that they wouldn't use chemical treatments after they are sterilized since they skin is the biggest organ and things can be absorbed through there anyways. Is there maybe a better choice for hand kneading though? I know some people have recommended Muslin bags but im not even sure where you would buy those.

 

[Pounigirl]

Thanks, so if i use nylons i usually cut off a length and put a knot on both ends. Can i knead it in this? Kneading seems alot easier to cleanup anyways...just a single bowl and less spills as i already clogged my dishwasher and had to clean that out washing the blender after and not rinsing it properly. Although nylons are not food grade, i would hope that they wouldn't use chemical treatments after they are sterilized since they skin is the biggest organ and things can be absorbed through there anyways. Is there maybe a better choice for hand kneading though? I know some people have recommended Muslin bags but im not even sure where you would buy those.

Kavafied sells a reallly good strainer and you can get it on amazon. It'a not allowing me to post the link to it, but if you just search Kavafied strainer on amazon it will come up.

 

[Kevin1991]

Kavafied sells a reallly good strainer and you can get it on amazon. It'a not allowing me to post the link to it, but if you just search Kavafied strainer on amazon it will come up.

cant seem to find it on amazon canada, i just see the aluball. How is that aluball? I was thinking of getting one but i would hate to waste root if it doesn't extract everything out. Also im not sure how much it holds but i typically make a serving containing 3 tablespoons and about 8 ounces of liquid, im thinking that is a shell since the kalm with kava that i buy says this is a serving. Typically i like to take two servings but for some reason this time when i had my reaction as per above i decided to toss and wash a tablespoon and take an extract pill, not to mention the decent sized glass of red wine with dinner (2 hours before the kava) which i guess i forgot about at the time.

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

cant seem to find it on amazon canada, i just see the aluball. How is that aluball? I was thinking of getting one but i would hate to waste root if it doesn't extract everything out. Also im not sure how much it holds but i typically make a serving containing 3 tablespoons and about 8 ounces of liquid, im thinking that is a shell since the kalm with kava that i buy says this is a serving. Typically i like to take two servings but for some reason this time when i had my reaction as per above i decided to toss and wash a tablespoon and take an extract pill, not to mention the decent sized glass of red wine with dinner (2 hours before the kava) which i guess i forgot about at the time.

You might want to try making your grog a bit weaker. You can still drink the same number of tablespoons of grind, but just using more water and spacing the shells out over longer time. Or drinking smaller shells.

e.g. one typical pattern, if drinking strong grog, is to have a 4 oz shell, then wait 20 or 30 minutes before having another 4 oz shell and then going just at that pace. A lot of this comes down to what you prefer, but also what doesn't make you feel bad.

 

[Pounigirl]

cant seem to find it on amazon canada, i just see the aluball. How is that aluball? I was thinking of getting one but i would hate to waste root if it doesn't extract everything out. Also im not sure how much it holds but i typically make a serving containing 3 tablespoons and about 8 ounces of liquid, im thinking that is a shell since the kalm with kava that i buy says this is a serving. Typically i like to take two servings but for some reason this time when i had my reaction as per above i decided to toss and wash a tablespoon and take an extract pill, not to mention the decent sized glass of red wine with dinner (2 hours before the kava) which i guess i forgot about at the time.

Here is Kavafied's official website. https://www.getkavafied.com/ They are also a vendor on here so you could talk with them here as well. @Kavafied As for your question about the Aluball, although for me it doesn't take the place of traditional prep which I prefer (and for which their strainer is awesome) it does have its place. It's a lot more portable if you are going to be enjoying kava outside of the comfort of your home where kneading would be impractical. It's great for a job situation or anywhere else you want to take kava on the go. It does make a weaker brew in my experience (I have only done the single aluball method) to traditional prep, but that is not necessarily a bad thing. It can make a stronger kava more suitable for day time purposes and it also improves the flavor and you can typically get more out of a second wash (or third or fourth in the case of some kavas) I think it's a good thing to have for it's versatility and portability, but just keep in mind that not all grinds will work in the aluball. Some get more gummy than others and do better with traditional prep or a blender. Just my humble 2 cents for whatever they are worth. Good luck to you.

 

[Kavafied]

Here is Kavafied's official website. https://www.getkavafied.com/ They are also a vendor on here so you could talk with them here as well. @Kavafied As for your question about the Aluball, although for me it doesn't take the place of traditional prep which I prefer (and for which their strainer is awesome) it does have its place. It's a lot more portable if you are going to be enjoying kava outside of the comfort of your home where kneading would be impractical. It's great for a job situation or anywhere else you want to take kava on the go. It does make a weaker brew in my experience (I have only done the single aluball method) to traditional prep, but that is not necessarily a bad thing. It can make a stronger kava more suitable for day time purposes and it also improves the flavor and you can typically get more out of a second wash (or third or fourth in the case of some kavas) I think it's a good thing to have for it's versatility and portability, but just keep in mind that not all grinds will work in the aluball. Some get more gummy than others and do better with traditional prep or a blender. Just my humble 2 cents for whatever they are worth. Good luck to you.

Straining more of the sediment out of your Kava can help reduce reactions if you feel like you are sensitive to it. I grew up being taught that when you mix Kava you want to filter out as much sediment as possible to avoid unwanted reactions. The AluBall's micron is roughly 70-80 microns and makes a smooth Kava drink. We also have 50 micron strainer bags too for those super sensitive to the sediment in Kava but that may filter out too much IMO.

 

[Kevin1991]

Straining more of the sediment out of your Kava can help reduce reactions if you feel like you are sensitive to it. I grew up being taught that when you mix Kava you want to filter out as much sediment as possible to avoid unwanted reactions. The AluBall's micron is roughly 70-80 microns and makes a smooth Kava drink. We also have 50 micron strainer bags too for those super sensitive to the sediment in Kava but that may filter out too much IMO.

I bought some muslin bags on amazon as i feel the nylons stretch when you squeeze it letting more sediment out, im not sure what micron the muslin bags are though. I also will not be blending it anymore and do the traditional method as i feel the blender makes smaller pieces and creates more sediment. I did not realize how important it is to get as much sediment out as possible. Amazon had some nut milk bags but they were 200 Micron which will let far too much sediment out. @Krunkie McKrunkface, am i making the grog too strong? Its about 8 ounces for 3 tbls spoons, if i make it less strong i dont get the tongue numbing effect. I guess in the grand scheme of things it should not matter as im still consuming the same amount, one is just more diluted in water. Im actually making it almond milk instead of water, but i dont think that has any difference as i drink almond milk all the time by itself.

 

[Kavafied]

I bought some muslin bags on amazon as i feel the nylons stretch when you squeeze it letting more sediment out, im not sure what micron the muslin bags are though. I also will not be blending it anymore and do the traditional method as i feel the blender makes smaller pieces and creates more sediment. I did not realize how important it is to get as much sediment out as possible. Amazon had some nut milk bags but they were 200 Micron which will let far too much sediment out. @Krunkie McKrunkface, am i making the grog too strong? Its about 8 ounces for 3 tbls spoons, if i make it less strong i dont get the tongue numbing effect. I guess in the grand scheme of things it should not matter as im still consuming the same amount, one is just more diluted in water. Im actually making it almond milk instead of water, but i dont think that has any difference as i drink almond milk all the time by itself.

I'm sure after some trial and error you'll find out what works best for you. Some can handle a lot of sediment and some are really sensitive. Also your tolerance will vary from Kava to Kava

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

I bought some muslin bags on amazon as i feel the nylons stretch when you squeeze it letting more sediment out, im not sure what micron the muslin bags are though. I also will not be blending it anymore and do the traditional method as i feel the blender makes smaller pieces and creates more sediment. I did not realize how important it is to get as much sediment out as possible. Amazon had some nut milk bags but they were 200 Micron which will let far too much sediment out. @Krunkie McKrunkface, am i making the grog too strong? Its about 8 ounces for 3 tbls spoons, if i make it less strong i dont get the tongue numbing effect. I guess in the grand scheme of things it should not matter as im still consuming the same amount, one is just more diluted in water. Im actually making it almond milk instead of water, but i dont think that has any difference as i drink almond milk all the time by itself.

If it makes you feel good and it doesn't make you feel bad, then it isn't too strong. 3 TBS in 8 oz water is quite strong, but not overly so for a first wash, IMO. I was just suggesting if that was making you feel bad, then maybe lighten up or spread it out thinner.

One thing you can do is make three washes and then blend them together. Use 3 TBS, but do a first wash with 8 oz, a second wash with 6 oz and then a third with 4 oz.. But then mix them together and split into four servings and drink each 20 minutes apart. Or closer if you want a more powerful feeling. You have a bunch of really good options.

[for a comparison, right now at work I made a first wash of 2 TBS Nambawan with 1 TBS Akau in about 20 oz water which I'm having in three shells spaced about an hour apart, then later I'll make a second wash with about 14 oz water and a third with 8 oz, again, spacing those about an hour apart, but this is mellow stuff at work, so I'll drink 3 TBS like you did, but spaced out over 6 shells in as many hours. This is a good working plan for me. So many possibilities.]

 

[Kevin1991]

If it makes you feel good and it doesn't make you feel bad, then it isn't too strong. 3 TBS in 8 oz water is quite strong, but not overly so for a first wash, IMO. I was just suggesting if that was making you feel bad, then maybe lighten up or spread it out thinner.

One thing you can do is make three washes and then blend them together. Use 3 TBS, but do a first wash with 8 oz, a second wash with 6 oz and then a third with 4 oz.. But then mix them together and split into four servings and drink each 20 minutes apart. Or closer if you want a more powerful feeling. You have a bunch of really good options.

[for a comparison, right now at work I made a first wash of 2 TBS Nambawan with 1 TBS Akau in about 20 oz water which I'm having in three shells spaced about an hour apart, then later I'll make a second wash with about 14 oz water and a third with 8 oz, again, spacing those about an hour apart, but this is mellow stuff at work, so I'll drink 3 TBS like you did, but spaced out over 6 shells in as many hours. This is a good working plan for me. So many possibilities.]

just thinking about it now i blended 6 TBS in 16 ounces and did a second wash with about 8 ounces and mixed the two together and split into two servings about an hour apart when i had that reaction. I was basically just going off the bag that says 3 TB is a serving so according to that it worked out to two servings. BTW reaction is completely gone what really helped was baking soda on the skin and epsom salt bath. I did my heavy leg workout (deadlifts and squats) on monday and felt pretty good just some irritated red marks leftover from the squat bar on the shoulders that day. Since im skipping the blender in the future If i just did 6 TB at first hand knead in 16 ounces than second wash with same root content hand kneading with 8 ounces and mix the two into a bowl... would this be ok? I should mention i only do kava at home basically on a friday or Saturday so looking for a bit of a stronger feeling anyways. I never at once thought the feeling is overwhelming or making me sick unlike alcohol. In this case it seemed more of an allergic reaction than a case of consuming too much. Loa waka seems to be noticeably stronger than Boronguru but hits your head more like alcohol and gives you a head buzz, while the blue bag borongoru makes your muscles relax more.

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

just thinking about it now i blended 6 TBS in 16 ounces and did a second wash with about 8 ounces and mixed the two together and split into two servings about an hour apart. Than did the toss and wash tablespoon and the extract (the time i had the reaction the next day). Since im skipping the blender in the future If i just did 6 TB at first hand knead in 16 ounces than second wash with same root content with 8 ounces and mix the two...hand kneading both times would this be ok? I should mention i only do kava at home basically on a friday or Saturday so looking for a bit of a stronger feeling anyways. Loa waka seems to be noticeably stronger than Boronguru but hits your head more like alcohol and gives you a head buzz, while the blue bag borongoru makes your muscles relax more.

yup, for evening sesh you'll want a stronger grog, unless it's an 8 hour sesh and you need to pace yourself.

Nothing wrong with using a blender if you like the convenience. If you're worried about sediment, just do your blending and then pour into a muslin bag for straining, instead of like a metal tea strainer or whatever. I think the only blender issue is if you are then doing a prep like my krunk prep using a tea strainer, the kind with the thin wire mesh. Depending on how fine it is, you could get a bit of sediment in there. But a good bag, whether you knead or not, should catch the "bad" sediment and leave the good silky fine stuff to pass through.