My foray into kavalactone extraction

[Palmetto]

Before everyone gets up in arms, this person is getting weekly liver panel tests already, so organ failure highly improbable. For the last year of taking high kava doses, they have all been better than the average person's liver panel, despite receiving chemo much of that time. Secondly, I am not prescribing a drug. I offered considerable scientific literature citations for them to read. They asked me for sources of kava, and have been taking kava from many commercial vendors for a couple years. I made one extract that I sent to them to do as they wish. I am doing a lot of this out of my own pocket, so no money is being made on my part. I am not planning on making more extracts to send them, but I am planning on making more extracts of noble kava for my own use. They are planning to buy commercially available extracts for their own use in the future. What I sent them is also available to them by mail order legally, so they are free to do as they please, whether it comes from me as a gift or from a commercial vendor.

Some people in this discussion are offering constructive criticism. Some are not. Perhaps I may communicate with the constructive individuals personally on such topics in the future.

 

[Palmetto]

@Henry you're comments weren't that unreasonable. But the overall tone of this thread was getting to the point where I feel uncomfortable sharing more, and I have positive news that I can't share out in the open in such an environment..

Some people may be assuming a lot where they have little info. Verticity obviously knows science, but otherwise, I am probably the only one in this discussion who has spent many years in cancer research and treatment, so I believe I am not a novice in this area. While my extract attempts are homemade and crude, they were a rush job, because this person asked me for an extract "within the next few days", so I couldn't build a lab or order the ideal ingredients that quickly. I have since found a commercial vendor who can provide a similar product without any effort on my part.

 

[Palmetto]

I will eventually report on this person's anecdotal progress and measures taken. I am not claiming to provide a cure. Just hoping to stabilize the disease for a while. This is someone important to me, so I do not take the risks lightly. If they ask me how long to wait between chemo and kava, I calculate out the biological half-lives of all major constituents involved, look for potential cross reactions in pathways and enzymes, and factor in quite a few other things before providing any info. I am not pretending to prescribe kava in place of chemo or in any other such thing. Perhaps people are misunderstanding, jumping to conclusions, or making dumb jokes.

 

[Palmetto]

I understand. I am sorry if I was a bit too negative. I think I was repeating some of the points made by Dr Schmidt in one of his publicatons when he talked about medicinal uses of tudei (irrc he said smth like "it may well be useful but it definetely lacks the same long and documented history of safe use as noble and the risk to benefit ratio must be established before one can recommend it for treatment).
At the same time I am realky intrigued by your research and hope you continue to post updates. I also very much hope your extract helps your friend.

Don't worry Henry, no offense taken. You seem like a decent guy.

 

[Dr.Krunk]

I can’t speak for others but I’d assume that there was no harm intended.

While I personally am inept to trying such a treatment with someone, I’m definitely interested in the development of what you are working on. I have a close family friend who’s also effected by cancer. Not sure if I’d recommend it from my understanding but your efforts intrigue me if nothing else. I hope the best for whom you are trying to help and would hope that you would feel comfortable continuing to update us.

As you stated it cannot be defined as a cure due to many implications that may not be apparent at this time. Almost seems speculative at this point but the proof is in the pudding. Like you stated, once you progress so far along every option absolutely should be available. If nothing else I’m curious to see your results on if they could substantiate further studies on Kava and cancer altogether.

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

I have two types of cancer and am as interested as anyone in any signs or indications that kava could be used to treat or attenuate or prevent cancer in any individuals. To my knowledge there exists currently no evidence of this but I would eagerly read any reputable evidence, hell, even any spurious evidence. To my knowledge all we have is studies of mice and extrapolations from observations of POPULATIONS, not individuals, and only of specific ethnic groups or nations, so that environmental factors have not been fully controlled for. It is encouraging and begs or even screams for more research, but my understanding of current state of research is we still don’t know very much. I am really eager to learn more.

Disclaimer: I have more than one cancer, my wife has had more than one cancer, I went to Johns Hopkins as an undergrad and also went through the graduate program there for ma and PhD. My wife has a PhD and is a full professor in health sciences, so between the two of us we can probably scrape our way through a scholarly or medical article.

 

[verticity]

I have two types of cancer and am as interested as anyone in any signs or indications that kava could be used to treat or attenuate or prevent cancer in any individuals. To my knowledge there exists currently no evidence of this but I would eagerly read any reputable evidence, hell, even any spurious evidence. To my knowledge all we have is studies of mice and extrapolations from observations of POPULATIONS, not individuals, and only of specific ethnic groups or nations, so that environmental factors have not been fully controlled for. It is encouraging and begs or even screams for more research, but my understanding of current state of research is we still don’t know very much. I am really eager to learn more.

Disclaimer: I have more than one cancer, my wife has had more than one cancer, I went to Johns Hopkins as an undergrad and also went through the graduate program there for ma and PhD. My wife has a PhD and is a full professor in health sciences, so between the two of us we can probably scrape our way through a scholarly or medical article.

In addition to studies of whole kava in vitro and epidemiology, there are in vitro and rodent studies of specific chemicals (kavalactones and flavokavains) showing an anti cancer effect in a test tube and in mice. You are right that there are no clinical studies in humans. Lots of science papers listed in this thread:
http://kavaforums.com/forum/threads...-cancer-incidence-and-kava-consumption.12740/
Example: DHM in mice:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27728767
The above article claims to show a protective effect, not a cure or treatment after the fact. But there are others that do claim to show chemicals in kava can actually kill cancer cells and slow tumor growth, for example this one about FKA in mice with bladder cancer:
http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/65/8/3479.full

This one claims evidence for potentially using FKB for both prevention and treatment of lung cancer (in vitro study):
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10529-012-0976-6 (Full text might or might not work: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.949.9267&rep=rep1&type=pdf)

 

[verticity]

On the other hand, people should be very cautious and not make exaggerated claims about these very preliminary results (and here I am talking about unscrupulous supplement manufacturers such as HerbaLife, etc, not anyone in this thread or on this forum):
Cancer Drugs Face Long Road From Mice to Men
""The history of cancer research has been a history of curing cancer in the mouse," said Dr. Richard Klausner, director of the National Cancer Institute. "We have cured mice of cancer for decades--and it simply didn't work in humans.""

Don't sell this kind of crap, in other words. I'm talking to you Dr. Axe, Oz, etc (this is an actual product available on a large Chinese site):

 

[Palmetto]

Kava has potential to extend the life of a cancer patient. Anecdotal data is limited and poorly controlled, but has at least some value. I will occasionally post anecdotal information about the one case I am familiar with. In this one case, the person was taking doxorubicin for several months, but the tumors continued to grow. Within a week of having a CT scan, they started eating a few tablespoons of tudei kava each day. They tumors shrank rapidly. About a month later they had another CT. Then they couldn't stomach eating kava any more, so they drank water preps. the kava semi stabilized, but eventually grew again after roughly 16 more months.

 

[Palmetto]

I wasn't trying to brag earlier. Some people made comments that made me more cautious about sharing some things. Since I am not playing doctor, kava ia not a regulated pharmaceutical, I have not promised a cure by any stretch, and this person is taking on their own, I have not acted unethically, as some might jump to conclusions based on little information.

 

[Palmetto]

I think I have improved my extraction recipe:

1. Soak the kava in just enough 151 proof alcohol to rise to the top of the powder. One paper reports a small window of mixed solvent polarity where 95 proof would dissolve roughly 85% as much KLs as 100% acetone, but only about 79% as much FKs. This is according to my own estimated calculations based off data and a solvent polarity calculation scheme I developed for my own purposes years ago that worked quite well in actual application of complex solvent mixtures. I am aiming to use a few steps to provide a differential advantage to KL separation from FKs.

2. After soaking, sonicate. I am planning on buying a cheapo sonicator, not a powerful, like I would prefer. The sonication might not accomplish much at low power, but probably a little release of KLs, even if the cells aren't fully disrupted.

3. Add an equivalent amount of 0.5 - 1.0 % Tween 80 aqueous soln. compared to the amount of alcohol added, buffered around pH 7 - 7.5. Acidity supposedly degrades some of the fresh root rare KLs, if they aren't already oxidized.

Blend

Add another aqueous buffer equivalent to the mash. Blend. Repeat this step until 4-5 equivalents of aqueous buffer have been added. I am hoping to add enough water to allow the micelles to fully form aqueous and oily separated phases. By including Tween 80 in the soln., I am hoping the KLs preferentially partition into the micelles. I may later substitute temp dependent poloxamers instead of Tween, because they partition into amphipathic layers when heated, and may be released to soln. when cold. Because the overall soln. polarity is fairly high by this stage, the FKs might preferentially adhere to the fibers, or form a scum, while the KLs somewhat prefer the micelles.

4. Strain the hell out of the mash in a filter bag with a good potato masher. I often make water preps with a potato masher, so my hands stay mostly dry and have less problem with dermo that way.

5. Leave the strained suspension in a freezer for a few hours. The KLs precipitate out to the bottom. Thus most of the alcohol is removed.

6. Use my brand new vacuum dessicator to suck the remaining alcohol out.

Optional:
erythritol (sweetener) in the aqueous phase. This would slightly lower the polarity.
Dutch process cocoa
fruit/nuts with some fatty content

I know there will still be flavokawains left, but I'll bet there will be considerable improvement in FK : KL ratio versus the alcohol, acetone, or CO2 prep ratios. To lower the FK : KL ratio more, at the expense of poorer KL extraction, increase the amount of water in the water / alcohol solvent in step 1.