I don't know how I'll get through this weekend

[BulamamatoNCIRVCKKPC]

Big Pharma is evil. That's all I know. I cannot believe it has taken me so many years to realize how damaging benzos are to the human brain. Anyway, I have a pretty severe panic disorder (since I was 12 but not medicated until 20yrs old). I am on insane amounts of klonopin. First, my MD decreased my dose last year. Then, just last visit, I asked if we could use the Ashton Method to wean me OFF. I want off but I won't do it myself. I cannot and he has no idea what the method is, nor does he want to learn and he won't change therapy. No other psychiatrist can take on my case.
It's not safe and I could never do my job again (probably, either way, I would not be able to work).
So, how messed up is this? If you've never taken a "Controlled substance" you'll, luckily, not know what I mean by this: We, at my place of work, (as well as most corporate pharmacies), have to hold a person to.the.day the med is due to be filled. No exceptions. New York State law says that a controlled Rx can be filled when the patient has 7 days or less left at home. Well, now, just by pure voluntary policies, most corporations won't fill until THE day of... Usually, I don't care but I drive an hour to and from work and I work the same time as other pharmacies are open! I cannot fill my own Rx. Policies again. In fact, I wouldn't want to and I wouldn't ever fill at my own company..ever. I skipped a dose the night before last, I'm skipping tonight which will affect me tomorrow and I will still be short a dose at work on Sunday. All day, I will rely on Kava. Thank the green earth for Kava! It won't be the same. I am not sure how much deficit I will be in by Sunday but you'd better believe that I will have my insant, micro, candies and 32 ounces of medium ground heavy kava at work on Sunday. I am thankful every day for such an amazing root that can give me even a hint of relief. This is the worst I've had to go through yet but I really need to find a way off the meds.
Then, watch our sick gov't take our kava away.... Sorry for the rant. I guess I just needed to type it out. I mean, we have notes in patients profiles saying, "HOLD NORCO TO THE DAY!!!" << just like that, as if they are a junkie. Also, "NO PSE!" because they've gotten too much Sudafed at our store. I'm SURE my file says similar about me trying to filla day early a few times when it has interfered with work. It is sickening to think that I'm a druggie when I am the most organic, fit person in that people at work even poke fun at how healthy I am. Yet, I am treated like a druggie. No one deserves that but my rant is over. It is just how it goes, I suppose. I am tempted to brew some PNG Isa but too afraid of it. So, it'll sit unless I really get desparate.

 

[SelfBiasResistor]

Unfortunately I know from experience that you aren't exaggerating. The policies created by the medical providers and law makers are more dangerous than the drugs. I've faced similar situations and seen others go through the same. Fortunately we still have enough access to medicinal herbs that with enough research you can solve most problems on your own. I'm in a similar situation with a short acting benzo (can't get controlled script without doctor appt, doctor on vacation). I would recommend using the lowest amount of klonopin per dose that won't make you feel bad to stretch it and take lots of lemon balm (binds to and activates benzo receptors). Even with my sleep issues, I've tapered down to almost no benzos for sleep with the help of that plant (actually sleeping better!).

 

[Pauluk]

Sorry to hear that mate. As a decaades long panic disorder sufferer i feel your pain.
Yes thank god for kava. Have you tried beta blockers like propranolol. Im on that with kava
And its working very very well.

 

[recentreturn]

Unfortunately I know from experience that you aren't exaggerating. The policies created by the medical providers and law makers are more dangerous than the drugs. I've faced similar situations and seen others go through the same. Fortunately we still have enough access to medicinal herbs that with enough research you can solve most problems on your own. I'm in a similar situation with a short acting benzo (can't get controlled script without doctor appt, doctor on vacation). I would recommend using the lowest amount of klonopin per dose that won't make you feel bad to stretch it and take lots of lemon balm (binds to and activates benzo receptors). Even with my sleep issues, I've tapered down to almost no benzos for sleep with the help of that plant (actually sleeping better!).

Where do you get your lemon balm?

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

take lots of lemon balm (binds to and activates benzo receptors)
YES!
I recommend herbpharm tincture unless you can find an herbalist who sells their wildcrafted lemon balm.
Tea won't do it. Must be fresh herb tincture in alcohol.

 

[BulamamatoNCIRVCKKPC]

Sorry to hear that mate. As a decaades long panic disorder sufferer i feel your pain.
Yes thank god for kava. Have you tried beta blockers like propranolol. Im on that with kava
And its working very very well.

Thank you. Beta blockers wouldn’t touch my level of panic disorder. When I say I’m on loads of Klonopin I mean, 22 mg per day. I still get tolerance withdrawal, which is what the kava takes away, completely. It’s amazing. However, when I skip a 10mg dose, kava works just fine. Two 10mg doses...not so fine but I can’t get to the pharmacy that fills it because, ironically, I have to be at work an hour away, as the pharmacist! Ha! It’s scary...

 

[Intrepidus_dux]

I went through this type of medical treatment regarding chronic pain even though I wasn’t on opiates. Being treated this way is extremely distressing to the sick person. It’s heinous even you, working at a pharmacy, have to deal with it. Long term daily kava use has had a lot of benefits for me though regarding chronic health problems. It’s certainly not a cure all, but an extremely important tool for a lot of us.
Hang in there. You’re not alone.

 

[ThePiper]

Thank you. Beta blockers wouldn’t touch my level of panic disorder. When I say I’m on loads of Klonopin I mean, 22 mg per day. I still get tolerance withdrawal, which is what the kava takes away, completely. It’s amazing. However, when I skip a 10mg dose, kava works just fine. Two 10mg doses...not so fine but I can’t get to the pharmacy that fills it because, ironically, I have to be at work an hour away, as the pharmacist! Ha! It’s scary...

When you say 22mg of klonopin, im guessing you mean 2.2mg? 22mg would be like taking 11 of the strongest Xanax pills per day.i I think the strongest klonopin pill might be 2mg. Typically 0.5 and 1mg pills are prescribed. Anyway it sucks to be hooked on those and be careful coming off for your own safety. Sending positive vibes.

 

[BulamamatoNCIRVCKKPC]

When you say 22mg of klonopin, im guessing you mean 2.2mg? 22mg would be like taking 11 of the strongest Xanax pills per day.i I think the strongest klonopin pill might be 2mg. Typically 0.5 and 1mg pills are prescribed. Anyway it sucks to be hooked on those and be careful coming off for your own safety. Sending positive vibes.

Klonopin comes in 0.5, 1 and 2 mg tablets. Since I missed half of 7th grade due to this disorder, then replasped at age 20 and couldn’t leave my house, otherwise mentally doing very well, my dose got up to TWENTY TWO mg. Yes, 22, not 2.2 I’ve skipped 10mgs per day the last 3 days and, save for some aches and pains, kava has been the only thing keeping me focused and « myself ». I’ll take my regular dosage today though.. my psychiatrist won’t decrease it but none other would even take me on! Anyway, sadly (but good for me), it’s probably because I am a health care professional with my doctorate that I was able to go back to this MD once mine retired 2 years ago. They treat me like a colleague and I am very stable. So, to him, I’m an easy patient with good insurance (ie, he gets paid for 5 minutes with me!).

 

[ThePiper]

You need to be really carefully weaning off of that! You surely know this but i feel the need to say this because i have known of multiple people to have seizures coming off of benzos and they were taking far less. I've seen taper schedules recommended at like 0.5mg down every two weeks and some would consider that too rapid. Keep us posted with how your doing and good luck!

 

[BulamamatoNCIRVCKKPC]

You need to be really carefully weaning off of that! You surely know this but i feel the need to say this because i have known of multiple people to have seizures coming off of benzos and they were taking far less. I've seen taper schedules recommended at like 0.5mg down every two weeks and some would consider that too rapid. Keep us posted with how your doing and good luck!

I don't think I'll ever really taper off completely. However, I am using Ashton's Method to taper 10% per month or 5% every two weeks. I can stop if uncomfortable. Heart attack and siezures are huge risks coming off of any dose of any benzo. Diazepam is safest but I do not have the help of my MD to switch over to Valium. So, klonopin has the 2nd longest half life (that's why Dr. Ashton prefers Valium, due to it's extremely long half life ~ 72hrs.). Again, I am just happy for kava. I took HALF my usual dose for 3 days straight. Had some slight withdrawals, of course, but nothing at all compared to any other time due to my heavy kava use (which *is* safe!!). Thank you so much for your sincere concern!

 

[Intrepidus_dux]

Klonopin comes in 0.5, 1 and 2 mg tablets. Since I missed half of 7th grade due to this disorder, then replasped at age 20 and couldn’t leave my house, otherwise mentally doing very well, my dose got up to TWENTY TWO mg. Yes, 22, not 2.2 I’ve skipped 10mgs per day the last 3 days and, save for some aches and pains, kava has been the only thing keeping me focused and « myself ». I’ll take my regular dosage today though.. my psychiatrist won’t decrease it but none other would even take me on! Anyway, sadly (but good for me), it’s probably because I am a health care professional with my doctorate that I was able to go back to this MD once mine retired 2 years ago. They treat me like a colleague and I am very stable. So, to him, I’m an easy patient with good insurance (ie, he gets paid for 5 minutes with me!).

So, you've basically gone through anxiety that escalated to agoraphobia, and then you went on to get your doctorate. You're clearly capable of great things! This doesn't change your current suffering though.

Has the heavy kava use helped you pull through? I'm glad to hear your withdraws haven't been serious. Would you be ok staying at this current dose, or is it still not safe? I used to be on benzos around 6 years ago, but had no idea of the risks and I don't even recall how I weaned off! I didn't have kava back then. Would've helped me a lot probably.

 

[BulamamatoNCIRVCKKPC]

So, you've basically gone through anxiety that escalated to agoraphobia, and then you went on to get your doctorate. You're clearly capable of great things! This doesn't change your current suffering though.

Has the heavy kava use helped you pull through? I'm glad to hear your withdraws haven't been serious. Would you be ok staying at this current dose, or is it still not safe? I used to be on benzos around 6 years ago, but had no idea of the risks and I don't even recall how I weaned off! I didn't have kava back then. Would've helped me a lot probably.

I am still having breakthrough tolerance anxiety at this dose but there is nothing to do but increase dose. That wouldn't last long either. Horrible drugs! Lucky that you got off so easily. Yes, I was diagnosed at 20 yrs with severe panic disorder with agoraphobia. I went through the 12 weeks of CBT, with a psychologist, completely unmedicated. He still urged me to see a pscyhiatrist for benzos. He equated it to a diabetic needing insulin. My brain wasn't making enough GABA on its own but I find this debatable and probably a short term therapy with a diligent taper over a year, at most, with continuing to see the therapist instead of over 10 years on benzos just upping the dose every time I broke through.
Yes, the heavy kavas do wonders! I mean, I can see it in the lack of hormonal acne on my face, my hair slowed down in falling out, etc. It has to be medium grind and sipped througout the day. Amazing root, I say! I do end up running short at the end of the month because I do take the dose I was on two years ago and just skip a few 10mg doses. So, I have to ration it. This didn't happen with just 2mg higher at all. I work out, I eat right, I am thin/fit and do not look like someone who consumes this amount of benzos per day. Crazy, I know.. I have only ever shared my actual dose here. Never anywhere else. The kava community cares and knows how important kava is in a lot of situations. This is one of them. I got through the weekend!! I worked today, no problem and I have a week off! So, I am feeling okay now. Thanks again for caring!

 

[SelfBiasResistor]

Where do you get your lemon balm?

I get my bulk herb from Mountain Rose but the health food store brand Traditional Medicinals works well too. The benzodiazepine enhancing effect is stronger with alcohol extract but you'll benefit from it if you drink enough tea. I combine them to get the full spectrum of effects.

 

[ThePiper]

You may want to refer to other member's benzo threads on here for encouragement if things get more difficult. There are at least a handful of threads on the forum that are essentially journals from people getting off of benzos with kava

 

[BulamamatoNCIRVCKKPC]

I get my bulk herb from Mountain Rose but the health food store brand Traditional Medicinals works well too. The benzodiazepine enhancing effect is stronger with alcohol extract but you'll benefit from it if you drink enough tea. I combine them to get the full spectrum of effects.

The lemon balm? My night time tea does have lemon balm in it. I, also, take a tablet called Mental Calm that I get from Vitacost. It has lavendar, GABA, Skull Cap, Bacopa, B complex, L-Theanine (which is also in the tea), Eleuthero, etc. I just take one at night. I would love to try lemon balm but I do not want it with alcohol in it. Can I purchase a paste of any sort?

 

[SelfBiasResistor]

The lemon balm? My night time tea does have lemon balm in it. I, also, take a tablet called Mental Calm that I get from Vitacost. It has lavendar, GABA, Skull Cap, Bacopa, B complex, L-Theanine (which is also in the tea), Eleuthero, etc. I just take one at night. I would love to try lemon balm but I do not want it with alcohol in it. Can I purchase a paste of any sort?

I get good GABA enhancing effects from just the tea but there are a couple of studies showing the benzo binding is stronger with the alcohol extract. Like this one - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15652288 .

 

[Intrepidus_dux]

The lemon balm? My night time tea does have lemon balm in it. I, also, take a tablet called Mental Calm that I get from Vitacost. It has lavendar, GABA, Skull Cap, Bacopa, B complex, L-Theanine (which is also in the tea), Eleuthero, etc. I just take one at night. I would love to try lemon balm but I do not want it with alcohol in it. Can I purchase a paste of any sort?

One suggestion is if you used an alcohol tincture, you could drop the dose into a glass of boiled water and the alcohol would evaporate. Read this in my old trusty herb book. Unsure if the recommendations have changed.

 

[BulamamatoNCIRVCKKPC]

I get good GABA enhancing effects from just the tea but there are a couple of studies showing the benzo binding is stronger with the alcohol extract. Like this one - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15652288 .

Thank you. I just ordered the herbal form, which has cane alcohol in it and the pure lemon balm tea as well. I hope it works, along with kava and lowering doses of Klonopin.

 

[Plantacious]

Big Pharma is evil. That's all I know. I cannot believe it has taken me so many years to realize how damaging benzos are to the human brain.
Then, watch our sick gov't take our kava away.... Sorry for the rant.

Could you be more specific about the damage that benzos do to the brain - I mean, besides addiction ?
If someone takes benzos, are there other supplements they can take with it, in order to reduce any such "damage" that you speak of ?
And do you have reason to believe they will "take our kava away", as in evidentiary ?
Or is it just something you suspect may eventually happen ?