Anyone Use Kava for Pain relief?

[Saghloqh]

Hey everyone. I must admit that in general I don't use kava that often and am not super up to date on all of its potential uses and mechanisms of action.

However, I picked some up today from the local herb store. Not 100% sure which cultivar, but it is from Vanuatu so I'm confident it is noble of decent quality (acetone test confirmed this about a year ago and it's the same brand.)

I am a carpenter, so I deal with various aches and pains. I have been taking suboxone, due unfortunately to a previous opioid addiction - however I have been taking it for over a year without relapse.

When I first started on suboxone, it had the side effect of acting as a very decent painkiller. However, since a few months in I have become habituated to that effect specifically. Nowadays, aches and pains seem to effect me no worse and no better than if I was taking nothing at all.

When I made up my kava today (4 tbsp medium grind with 50 micron strainer, heated to 140 degrees F to help rupture cell walls, then kneaded for 10 mins) I was surprised to be affected more strongly than usual. I definitely did a larger batch than usual, and probably drank more than I usually would because food in my stomach meant it didn't kick in as fast as normal.

What I was surprised to find is that a fairly sharp and potent pain in my ankle and knee, a result of work stress, has basically gone away completely.

I've never experienced this level of pain relief from kava. Partially I think because in the past when I've used it I haven't had any pain worth writing home about.

Doing some research, there's a few MOA's which seem likely. From what I can tell, kava acts on the canmabinoid receptor 1 (CB1) as an agonist, the cyclooxygenase enzyme as an inhibitor, and sodium and calcium channels as a blocker. Any of these could contribute to pain relief.

However, I feel like I might be able to rule CB1 out... marijuana is an example of another CB1 agonist, and I have decent experiwnce with it. Marijuana does provide "pain relief", however it is more in the form of causing you to care less about the pain, it doesn't actually decrease nociception much if at all. The pain relief I am experiencing is more in the typical acetaminophen or ibuprofen where it mostly just goes away. When using marijuana, the pain is always kind of there in the background if you look for it.

So COX inhibition or electrolyte channel blockade seems the likely answer. I can find much more info about kava as a NA/CA blocker than COX inhibitor.

I also assume given Obama's complete lack of long term gastrointestinal distress even with crazy doses precludes it from acting on COX WITH any significant intensity. Also, ion channel blockade seems to be shared among many kavalactones whereas COX inhibition is primarily just dihydrokawain and yangonin - and even then it's in the millimolar range per Liter for effectiveness (I.e. not high).

It would be great if the pain relieving effects of kava were mediated through a mechanism other than COX, because it would mean that the long term effects I'm trying to avoid by not taking NSAID's daily wouldn't be a concern. Also, it would mean that NSAID's could be more safely stacked with kava on the occasion it's necessary ( Although the interactions with kavalactones and hepatic enzymes has me wary of using with acetaminophen).

Anyway, anyone have any thoughts or experience? Any favourite cultivars for pain relief?

Sorry if this was too in-depth for kava lounge. I am a serial lurker so don't have the requirements for in-depth.

 

[recentreturn]

Hey everyone. I must admit that in general I don't use kava that often and am not super up to date on all of its potential uses and mechanisms of action.

However, I picked some up today from the local herb store. Not 100% sure which cultivar, but it is from Vanuatu so I'm confident it is noble of decent quality (acetone test confirmed this about a year ago and it's the same brand.)

I am a carpenter, so I deal with various aches and pains. I have been taking suboxone, due unfortunately to a previous opioid addiction - however I have been taking it for over a year without relapse.

When I first started on suboxone, it had the side effect of acting as a very decent painkiller. However, since a few months in I have become habituated to that effect specifically. Nowadays, aches and pains seem to effect me no worse and no better than if I was taking nothing at all.

When I made up my kava today (4 tbsp medium grind with 50 micron strainer, heated to 140 degrees F to help rupture cell walls, then kneaded for 10 mins) I was surprised to be affected more strongly than usual. I definitely did a larger batch than usual, and probably drank more than I usually would because food in my stomach meant it didn't kick in as fast as normal.

What I was surprised to find is that a fairly sharp and potent pain in my ankle and knee, a result of work stress, has basically gone away completely.

I've never experienced this level of pain relief from kava. Partially I think because in the past when I've used it I haven't had any pain worth writing home about.

Doing some research, there's a few MOA's which seem likely. From what I can tell, kava acts on the canmabinoid receptor 1 (CB1) as an agonist, the cyclooxygenase enzyme as an inhibitor, and sodium and calcium channels as a blocker. Any of these could contribute to pain relief.

However, I feel like I might be able to rule CB1 out... marijuana is an example of another CB1 agonist, and I have decent experiwnce with it. Marijuana does provide "pain relief", however it is more in the form of causing you to care less about the pain, it doesn't actually decrease nociception much if at all. The pain relief I am experiencing is more in the typical acetaminophen or ibuprofen where it mostly just goes away. When using marijuana, the pain is always kind of there in the background if you look for it.

So COX inhibition or electrolyte channel blockade seems the likely answer. I can find much more info about kava as a NA/CA blocker than COX inhibitor.

I also assume given Obama's complete lack of long term gastrointestinal distress even with crazy doses precludes it from acting on COX WITH any significant intensity. Also, ion channel blockade seems to be shared among many kavalactones whereas COX inhibition is primarily just dihydrokawain and yangonin - and even then it's in the millimolar range per Liter for effectiveness (I.e. not high).

It would be great if the pain relieving effects of kava were mediated through a mechanism other than COX, because it would mean that the long term effects I'm trying to avoid by not taking NSAID's daily wouldn't be a concern. Also, it would mean that NSAID's could be more safely stacked with kava on the occasion it's necessary ( Although the interactions with kavalactones and hepatic enzymes has me wary of using with acetaminophen).

Anyway, anyone have any thoughts or experience? Any favourite cultivars for pain relief?

Sorry if this was too in-depth for kava lounge. I am a serial lurker so don't have the requirements for in-depth.

I've heard that kava has anti-inflammatory properties and also muscle relaxant properties, in addition the the things you mentioned. I've never used it specifically for pain, but some certainly have. @Krunkie McKrunkface talking about Savusavu comes to my mind.

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

Hey everyone. I must admit that in general I don't use kava that often and am not super up to date on all of its potential uses and mechanisms of action.

However, I picked some up today from the local herb store. Not 100% sure which cultivar, but it is from Vanuatu so I'm confident it is noble of decent quality (acetone test confirmed this about a year ago and it's the same brand.)

I am a carpenter, so I deal with various aches and pains. I have been taking suboxone, due unfortunately to a previous opioid addiction - however I have been taking it for over a year without relapse.

When I first started on suboxone, it had the side effect of acting as a very decent painkiller. However, since a few months in I have become habituated to that effect specifically. Nowadays, aches and pains seem to effect me no worse and no better than if I was taking nothing at all.

When I made up my kava today (4 tbsp medium grind with 50 micron strainer, heated to 140 degrees F to help rupture cell walls, then kneaded for 10 mins) I was surprised to be affected more strongly than usual. I definitely did a larger batch than usual, and probably drank more than I usually would because food in my stomach meant it didn't kick in as fast as normal.

What I was surprised to find is that a fairly sharp and potent pain in my ankle and knee, a result of work stress, has basically gone away completely.

I've never experienced this level of pain relief from kava. Partially I think because in the past when I've used it I haven't had any pain worth writing home about.

Doing some research, there's a few MOA's which seem likely. From what I can tell, kava acts on the canmabinoid receptor 1 (CB1) as an agonist, the cyclooxygenase enzyme as an inhibitor, and sodium and calcium channels as a blocker. Any of these could contribute to pain relief.

However, I feel like I might be able to rule CB1 out... marijuana is an example of another CB1 agonist, and I have decent experiwnce with it. Marijuana does provide "pain relief", however it is more in the form of causing you to care less about the pain, it doesn't actually decrease nociception much if at all. The pain relief I am experiencing is more in the typical acetaminophen or ibuprofen where it mostly just goes away. When using marijuana, the pain is always kind of there in the background if you look for it.

So COX inhibition or electrolyte channel blockade seems the likely answer. I can find much more info about kava as a NA/CA blocker than COX inhibitor.

I also assume given Obama's complete lack of long term gastrointestinal distress even with crazy doses precludes it from acting on COX WITH any significant intensity. Also, ion channel blockade seems to be shared among many kavalactones whereas COX inhibition is primarily just dihydrokawain and yangonin - and even then it's in the millimolar range per Liter for effectiveness (I.e. not high).

It would be great if the pain relieving effects of kava were mediated through a mechanism other than COX, because it would mean that the long term effects I'm trying to avoid by not taking NSAID's daily wouldn't be a concern. Also, it would mean that NSAID's could be more safely stacked with kava on the occasion it's necessary ( Although the interactions with kavalactones and hepatic enzymes has me wary of using with acetaminophen).

Anyway, anyone have any thoughts or experience? Any favourite cultivars for pain relief?

Sorry if this was too in-depth for kava lounge. I am a serial lurker so don't have the requirements for in-depth.

Yeah, be very very wary kava and acetaminophen. Like just don’t kind of wary. And no kava with norco, 222 or speedballs.

Two things going on: pain relief and less sensation of pain because of reduced inflammation, the former a primary effect of kava and the latter a secondary one. And some kavas and blends are better for the former, some the latter.

I have had a great deal of success combining kava with CBD hemp flower, a type of industrial hemp, legal to buy, own and use in all 50 states of US. I vaporize it, then use the AVB for brownies. I also extract CBD from it using a cheapo crock pot to make a cannabutter for adding to tea. Seems to promote synergies, but works best with higher CBD strains, specifically above 20% CBD. PM me if you need more info as this is straying out of bounds here and the mods have already indulged my meshuggahs way more than warranted. I do like to push the envelope but I still like being able to use it as an envelope should I need to send a letter or bill payment.

 

[The Kap'n]

I use kava for back pain and it works better than any ibuprofen or Tylenol. In fact, when I'm in severe pain it's the only thing that works. I assume that's because my issue is muscular, but it works wonderfully.

 

[fait]

as this is straying out of bounds here and the mods have already indulged my meshuggahs way more than warranted. I do like to push the envelope but I still like being able to use it as an envelope should I need to send a letter or bill payment.

The mods make the rules, but I feel like you contribute a lot to this kava community that they'll forgive you this one "transgression." We're not just kava enthusiasts here. Human beings can be into many different things. I don't read every thread or every post here, but you're a font of knowledge I'm finding.

On topic though, I've had some good success with drinking kava for pain relief. I haven't been in severe pain but I know soreness in my neck goes away after a cup of grog of decent strength. You get similar results with BKH's CO2 extract.

 

[recentreturn]

Yeah, be very very wary kava and acetaminophen. Like just don’t kind of wary. And no kava with norco, 222 or speedballs.

Two things going on: pain relief and less sensation of pain because of reduced inflammation, the former a primary effect of kava and the latter a secondary one. And some kavas and blends are better for the former, some the latter.

I have had a great deal of success combining kava with CBD hemp flower, a type of industrial hemp, legal to buy, own and use in all 50 states of US. I vaporize it, then use the AVB for brownies. I also extract CBD from it using a cheapo crock pot to make a cannabutter for adding to tea. Seems to promote synergies, but works best with higher CBD strains, specifically above 20% CBD. PM me if you need more info as this is straying out of bounds here and the mods have already indulged my meshuggahs way more than warranted. I do like to push the envelope but I still like being able to use it as an envelope should I need to send a letter or bill payment.

Do you mean hemp flour or hemp flower? I thought the flowering buds of any Cannabis sp. was illegal to possess regardless of THC content. If it were legal and there's a way to test for CBD content, I know where I could find pounds of hemp within 10 minutes of my house.

 

[SelfBiasResistor]

Do you mean hemp flour or hemp flower? I thought the flowering buds of any Cannabis sp. was illegal to possess regardless of THC content. If it were legal and there's a way to test for CBD content, I know where I could find pounds of hemp within 10 minutes of my house.

The 50 state legal hemp product marketing is kind of misleading. Federally any CBD product is illegal since it is still on the federal CSA schedule 1 list and unless you live in a medical/recreational state it is also on the state level controlled substance lists. The FDA just approved the new CBD drug at schedule 5 but that only affects that drug and it's illegal to posses without a doctor prescribing and obtained through a pharmacy. The new farm bill legalizes industrial hemp federally so that's good for those of us who enjoy eating hemp seeds (nutrition) but if that hemp contains CBD or THC it is still considered a schedule 1 substance and potentially punishable locally (depending on where your at) and federally.

 

[Intrepidus_dux]

I'm a 1st year electrician apprentice. I use kava for pain relief frequently. Though with hard labor like digging trenches, I have to watch my quantities or wait for the weekend, otherwise I drag at work the next morning. It doesn't work so great for nerve pain. A lot of it depends on the timing of the kava, food intake, and the strain. I find I have to be careful to balance getting enough food and hydration particularly during the work week. Also some strains will keep me awake at night so I have to be wary of that too. I generally keep the week night kava drinking light unless I'm having pain that would keep me up anyways.

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

Do you mean hemp flour or hemp flower? I thought the flowering buds of any Cannabis sp. was illegal to possess regardless of THC content. If it were legal and there's a way to test for CBD content, I know where I could find pounds of hemp within 10 minutes of my house.

Eeeh, not that simple, unfortunately. The law allowing this only changed relatively recently you need a special license to grow and sell it. Very few companies got the. License, but there are several reputable, even excellent, companies with extremely high quality flower. I also buy trim and use that for infusions.

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

The 50 state legal hemp product marketing is kind of misleading. Federally any CBD product is illegal since it is still on the federal CSA schedule 1 list and unless you live in a medical/recreational state it is also on the state level controlled substance lists. The FDA just approved the new CBD drug at schedule 5 but that only affects that drug and it's illegal to posses without a doctor prescribing and obtained through a pharmacy. The new farm bill legalizes industrial hemp federally so that's good for those of us who enjoy eating hemp seeds (nutrition) but if that hemp contains CBD or THC it is still considered a schedule 1 substance and potentially punishable locally (depending on where your at) and federally.

so are all these companies blatantly breaking he law and drawing a lot of attention to themselves so they'll get busted any moment now? If so, I better stock the censored up. I mean this is so much cheaper and easier and better than buying the expensive ready made alternatives, whether mm or headshop gummies plus having control over the production we can make it to what we want, rather than have to adapt around it. Also, I really respond well to lots of CBD, in amounts large enough that with mm I'd be out of my bean, lose my bottle, which is something up with which m'lady would surely not put. With hemp flower I can have the levels I seems to respond well to without the hassle of the delta 9 THC. Not that I'm knocking it, for a lot of people it has great usefulness, both for pain and for having fun, but I have little need for it at the moment. Also, fwiw, I find that kava goes a lot better with CBD than THC, With CBD it's more like they complement each other, feels very smooth and copacetic, whereas kava and THC seem to be at a bit of a cross purposes and THC can act like a bully.

 

[kastom_lif]

CBD does indeed seem to be 50 state legal now. Previously I had mail ordered some under the table from a trusted vendor. Then the local po-po started barking on social media about how even epilectics and hospice patients wouls be prosecuted hardcore. And since I did't have an out-of-state PO box I quit ordering CBD.

Yet now it's legal in 50 states and our local consabulatory are pretending like it was never a thing. Oh well. What a world we live in.

But honestly, CBD is wonderful for certain medical uses. It does not make you high. It is great for chronic pain. And I have heard it helps with seizures among other things. Just don't buy those dumb gummie bears at the gas station. Buy quality CBD.

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

CBD does indeed seem to be 50 state legal now. Previously I had mail ordered some under the table from a trusted vendor. Then the local po-po started barking on social media about how even epilectics and hospice patients wouls be prosecuted hardcore. And since I did't have an out-of-state PO box I quit ordering CBD.

Yet now it's legal in 50 states and our local consabulatory are pretending like it was never a thing. Oh well. What a world we live in.

But honestly, CBD is wonderful for certain medical uses. It does not make you high. It is great for chronic pain. And I have heard it helps with seizures among other things. Just don't buy those dumb gummie bears at the gas station. Buy quality CBD.

Yes, quality is one thing, and with these companies there’s only great, better or amaze balls to chose from, and what I produce costs about 1/10th or less, usually 7/100 what it costs to buy.

 

[Saghloqh]

Thanks for the great discussion guys. I am a huge advocate for CBD. It works well for a number of things, though personally I have found it to only be a good adjunct therapy for treating pain... by itself (or even with THC) I find it lacking in that department. Great for anxiety, sleep, and appetite.

Unfortunately it is insanely expensive at the dispensaries, although I live in the wonderful land of Canuckistan, and the fact that it's legal (And I live on Vancouver Island where local government is handling legalization very well and not stifling competition) means that prices are going down slowly but surely.

All of this is complicated by being in a suboxone program though. Drug tests every couple month means that, even if theoretically CBD itself won't show positive for THC, there may be enough cross-reactivity with some other cannabinoid to throw a false positive. I will talk to my doc though... she is awesome and incredibly progressive (didn't have any problem with me exploring some self-guided "psychedelic therapy" so I'm sure CBD would be fine.

Anyway, we took some real tangents, so returning to kava... over the last two days I've been doing some more experimenting. Unfortunately in too high doses the type of kava I've used so far do trigger anxiety (probably due to catecholamine reuptake inhibition). The problem I've been running into is that the dose which gives me muscle relaxation (because that seems to be where a lot of the relief is coming from) is only slightly shy of the dose where things get a little too heady for me.

I'm hoping that if I become a more regular user some of that may die down. Speaking of the green devil, I actually have that effect with THC - once upon a time when I was a heavy imbiber, I did not suffer anxiety from even heroic doses of marijuana. But nowadays, as an incredibly infrequent user, less is really more, because it doesn't tale much to have real anxiety.

So maybe similar will happen with kava. If I get the dose just right, I love it. But unfortunately just a bit too much is overwhelming, a bit too little does nothing.

I definitely will be looking for some more specifically heavy kava as well, as that may be more prudent for my situation.

Duration is also unfortunately a bit of a sticking point. So far using a bit of ibuprofen during the day and then kava after work is fine, but it would be nice to have no reliance on NSAID's. But using kava consistently would be expensive as it seems to only last a couple hours.

Hopefully some RT presents itself, or I just become more attuned and can use smaller amounts more frequently. But if anyone has suggestions for heavy, long lasting kava that can ship to Canada, I'm all ears!

 

[Intrepidus_dux]

Thanks for the great discussion guys. I am a huge advocate for CBD. It works well for a number of things, though personally I have found it to only be a good adjunct therapy for treating pain... by itself (or even with THC) I find it lacking in that department. Great for anxiety, sleep, and appetite.

Unfortunately it is insanely expensive at the dispensaries, although I live in the wonderful land of Canuckistan, and the fact that it's legal (And I live on Vancouver Island where local government is handling legalization very well and not stifling competition) means that prices are going down slowly but surely.

All of this is complicated by being in a suboxone program though. Drug tests every couple month means that, even if theoretically CBD itself won't show positive for THC, there may be enough cross-reactivity with some other cannabinoid to throw a false positive. I will talk to my doc though... she is awesome and incredibly progressive (didn't have any problem with me exploring some self-guided "psychedelic therapy" so I'm sure CBD would be fine.

Anyway, we took some real tangents, so returning to kava... over the last two days I've been doing some more experimenting. Unfortunately in too high doses the type of kava I've used so far do trigger anxiety (probably due to catecholamine reuptake inhibition). The problem I've been running into is that the dose which gives me muscle relaxation (because that seems to be where a lot of the relief is coming from) is only slightly shy of the dose where things get a little too heady for me.

I'm hoping that if I become a more regular user some of that may die down. Speaking of the green devil, I actually have that effect with THC - once upon a time when I was a heavy imbiber, I did not suffer anxiety from even heroic doses of marijuana. But nowadays, as an incredibly infrequent user, less is really more, because it doesn't tale much to have real anxiety.

So maybe similar will happen with kava. If I get the dose just right, I love it. But unfortunately just a bit too much is overwhelming, a bit too little does nothing.

I definitely will be looking for some more specifically heavy kava as well, as that may be more prudent for my situation.

Duration is also unfortunately a bit of a sticking point. So far using a bit of ibuprofen during the day and then kava after work is fine, but it would be nice to have no reliance on NSAID's. But using kava consistently would be expensive as it seems to only last a couple hours.

Hopefully some RT presents itself, or I just become more attuned and can use smaller amounts more frequently. But if anyone has suggestions for heavy, long lasting kava that can ship to Canada, I'm all ears!

It takes awhile to find the right dosing. Also, your dosing will change as the kavalactones build up in your system. You gotta just go with the flow and listen to your body.

The more heady stuff gives me anxiety too. The pain killing effects aren't really super long lasting IMO. Maybe 4 hours max on a strain that is working well. One nice thing is those next day relaxation/anxiety reducing effects. Those will extend in length too with continued consumption.

Squanch waka, melo melo, vanuatu kavas all have been good to me for pain. Gabapentin in the morning and afternoon seem to go well with kava. Though if I take a gabapentin, and then kava within an hour, it amplfies the effects of the kava- oftentime too much. I stopped taking my evening dose of gabapentin though thanks to kava. Replaces the pain relief well and is relaxing which is what I need in the evenings.

Regarding the ibuprofen; that one really messed up my system in the past taking it too regularly. GI issues and headaches. You probably need something a bit more easy on your body for regular daytime pain relief.

 

[SelfBiasResistor]

so are all these companies blatantly breaking he law and drawing a lot of attention to themselves so they'll get busted any moment now? If so, I better stock the censored up.

Of course they aren't looking to get into legal trouble but they are all based out of states where local laws provide them with protection (unless the federal government decides to enforce federal law as our previous attorney general intended to do). Most of the legal risk is assumed by the buyer. As the desire to jail people for possessing CBD in areas where it isn't legal is going away it's becoming less of a risk but in some areas there is still enough risk that buyers should be aware of local laws and careful when transporting from state to state. Also depending on the plant from where the CBD was derived there is a chance that it could contain more THC than is locally legal. Many 3rd party tests have confirmed higher than allowed THC levels in products being marketed as CBD only. Others have found miniscule levels of CBD or any other cannabinoids so it really seems like a crap-shoot unless you buy from a dispensary in a regulated state or buy the raw plant material (assuming it's properly identified) and smoke/extract it.

I mean this is so much cheaper and easier and better than buying the expensive ready made alternatives, whether mm or headshop gummies plus having control over the production we can make it to what we want, rather than have to adapt around it. Also, I really respond well to lots of CBD, in amounts large enough that with mm I'd be out of my bean, lose my bottle, which is something up with which m'lady would surely not put. With hemp flower I can have the levels I seems to respond well to without the hassle of the delta 9 THC. Not that I'm knocking it, for a lot of people it has great usefulness, both for pain and for having fun, but I have little need for it at the moment. Also, fwiw, I find that kava goes a lot better with CBD than THC, With CBD it's more like they complement each other, feels very smooth and copacetic, whereas kava and THC seem to be at a bit of a cross purposes and THC can act like a bully.

I agree that's the way to do it at this point. Obtain the plant material and extract it on your own so you know exactly what you're getting. With high prices and lack of regulation in so many areas the market is ripe for the get rich quick crowd to cash in with low quality/high profit products. Maybe someday the FDA will regulate herbal products for the public's health and safety but I doubt it'll be any time soon since they are no friend to herbal safety/freedom or to the many people that benefit from these plants.

 

[SelfBiasResistor]

I definitely will be looking for some more specifically heavy kava as well, as that may be more prudent for my situation.

Duration is also unfortunately a bit of a sticking point. So far using a bit of ibuprofen during the day and then kava after work is fine, but it would be nice to have no reliance on NSAID's. But using kava consistently would be expensive as it seems to only last a couple hours.

Hopefully some RT presents itself, or I just become more attuned and can use smaller amounts more frequently. But if anyone has suggestions for heavy, long lasting kava that can ship to Canada, I'm all ears!

Heavier kava will last longer but at medicinal (high) doses it won't work well for daytime. Another challenge is that the market has been leaning away from kava with the heavier medicinal qualities that are more effective for treating pain. One exception was that first batch of Fiji Fresh waka that surprisingly had very good pain relieving properties and was minimally sedating. Duration is also one of my biggest challenges with kava now since even the heaviest kava (non ISA/tudei) currently available wears off after 4 or 5 hours which makes treating insomnia with it nearly impossible. Over time I've been starting to wonder if there is a tolerance aspect when it comes to using kava long term.

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

Of course they aren't looking to get into legal trouble but they are all based out of states where local laws provide them with protection (unless the federal government decides to enforce federal law as our previous attorney general intended to do). Most of the legal risk is assumed by the buyer. As the desire to jail people for possessing CBD in areas where it isn't legal is going away it's becoming less of a risk but in some areas there is still enough risk that buyers should be aware of local laws and careful when transporting from state to state. Also depending on the plant from where the CBD was derived there is a chance that it could contain more THC than is locally legal. Many 3rd party tests have confirmed higher than allowed THC levels in products being marketed as CBD only. Others have found miniscule levels of CBD or any other cannabinoids so it really seems like a crap-shoot unless you buy from a dispensary in a regulated state or buy the raw plant material (assuming it's properly identified) and smoke/extract it.



I agree that's the way to do it at this point. Obtain the plant material and extract it on your own so you know exactly what you're getting. With high prices and lack of regulation in so many areas the market is ripe for the get rich quick crowd to cash in with low quality/high profit products. Maybe someday the FDA will regulate herbal products for the public's health and safety but I doubt it'll be any time soon since they are no friend to herbal safety/freedom or to the many people that benefit from these plants.

To be very clear I was only discussing raw, dried plant material, specifically what is known as “CBD hemp flower” and looks exactly like top shelf bud and has the full range and strength of terpenes and flavonoids as weed. Some strains are very high in CBD, above 20%. But because they test below 0.3% THC it is considered industrial hemp, thus legal, though as you say, in some states it can be tricky, Idaho is notoriously problematic. The trim, typically only 5% CBD but also much cheaper ( $200 /kg ) can be used for extractions.

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

I also buy the hemp flower's @Krunkie McKrunkface and they say it's legal as long as it's under .015 percent I believe give or take a .0
I find the combo very nice. And the strains keep getting cleaner.
Definitely good for pain relief

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

I also buy the hemp flower's @Krunkie McKrunkface and they say it's legal as long as it's under .015 percent I believe give or take a .0
I find the combo very nice. And the strains keep getting cleaner.
Definitely good for pain relief

You mean combining CBD with kava? I agree. And find it goes much better than kava with mm that has THC. Part of it is having the CBD in a high enough concentration and a high enough dose. I think one needs a lot for it to be really therapeutic. But once that point is reached, some pretty good things happen if one’s body is the type to be rrceptive. Chiefly being treatment of low level chronic pain, anti-inflammatory, anti-gout ( a huge, unexpected and very pleasant surprise for me) and sleep. Also a general feeling of well-being that is hard to describe. It does 90% of what I would want mm to do for me, but much more cheaply and efficiently. I’ll save the stuff with THC for extreme pain, like I do with the kr I have in the back of the pantry and never touch. Kava’s the thing, tho. The real star, towering above all else. Kava is the best. I love kava.

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

Exactly how I feel ^