Kava and aging skin

[Groggy]

Great commentary! Somewhere on these Forums we ported a paper which suggests Cinnamic acid as a "skin-drying" factor.
Cinnamic acid is found in kava beverage.
I also wonder if folks who use non-traditional, solvent-based kava extracts get the dermititis ??
Quote from study-- "Cinnamic acid has been
shown to elicit immediate contact dermatitis, a mastcell-
mediated process, and to mobilize calcium in pancreatic
beta cells (Smith et al., 2000)".
Anyone for Cinnamon Rolls to chase the 'awa?

I think it was on this thread, I only glanced through it briefly but here it is;
http://kavaforums.com/forum/threads/fda-compliance.9823/#post-116681

This is an interesting topic because it is a common occurrence with us kava drinkers, I find that not consuming kava daily affords me the advantage of not getting dermo anymore, I only drink kava 1-2 a week now, on the weekends. Whether the reason is associated with the makas as @Krunkie McKrunkface suggested or directly related to kavalactones I don't know but as Zaphod brought it up, I'd love to have the studies be viable to narrow it further.

Without any evidence, I suspect it is likely related to the diuretic effect kava has, much like coffee or alcohol but presenting with different side effects in each instance.

 

[Zaphod]

I think it was on this thread, I only glanced through it briefly but here it is;
http://kavaforums.com/forum/threads/fda-compliance.9823/#post-116681

This is an interesting topic because it is a common occurrence with us kava drinkers, I find that not consuming kava daily affords me the advantage of not getting dermo anymore, I only drink kava 1-2 a week now, on the weekends. Whether the reason is associated with the makas as @Krunkie McKrunkface suggested or directly related to kavalactones I don't know but as Zaphod brought it up, I'd love to have the studies be viable to narrow it further.

Without any evidence, I suspect it is likely related to the diuretic effect kava has, much like coffee or alcohol but presenting with different side effects in each instance.

This is another good thread on dermopathy:
http://kavaforums.com/forum/threads/kava-dermopathy.25/
The other thing I find odd - which may or may not be kava related is that I don't seem to tan as easily as I used to. In my youth, and up to a few years ago (about the same time as my kava drinking started) I would tan very easily due to my Sicilian heritage [queue Christopher Walken's in True Romance]. Since then it seems like despite my many hours in the summer sun I tend to take longer to tan and it seems to fade much quicker. Anyone else experience this?

 

[Tumarumaru]

Can you all please tell me if any of this is possibly related to kava ?

* scabs that seem to appear out of nowhere, and then take a really long time to heal

* suddenly much, much more susceptible to insect bites (either mosquito and/or spider, etc) AND those also get highly aggravated on their own, and appear to either have an allergic reaction to the bite, or the appearance of infection from the bite. After a very, very long time, the bite/sore eventually goes away on its own, like the "scabs" described in the first example above.

But I want to emphasize both of these things started after I started kava, and never used to happen before.

I quit alcohol and went into kava as well. Your body is reacting and healing from the affects of alcohol, it takes time and you will be surprised at how much alcohol did to your system. Green foods! You don't have to stop kava.

 

[Plantacious]

I quit alcohol and went into kava as well. Your body is reacting and healing from the affects of alcohol, it takes time and you will be surprised at how much alcohol did to your system. Green foods! You don't have to stop kava.

Interesting.
Thank you, because that's the first time I heard that basically alcohol withdrawals could cause skin issues.

 

[verticity]

Can you all please tell me if any of this is possibly related to kava ?

* scabs that seem to appear out of nowhere, and then take a really long time to heal

* suddenly much, much more susceptible to insect bites (either mosquito and/or spider, etc) AND those also get highly aggravated on their own, and appear to either have an allergic reaction to the bite, or the appearance of infection from the bite. After a very, very long time, the bite/sore eventually goes away on its own, like the "scabs" described in the first example above.

But I want to emphasize both of these things started after I started kava, and never used to happen before.

"Scabs that appear out of nowhere" sounds like it might be an allergic reaction rather than common dermopathy. Maybe what this case report by a doctor in Vanuatu calls urticaria (also known as hives: itchy raised patches of skin)
Kava-induced urticaria, Grace 2005
"Described in this letter are two patients who experienced an urticarial reaction after the consumption of kava....Subsequent to identification of these two cases, discussion with members of the local community who are regular kava drinkers revealed that this is a well-recognized problem among selected people, with flushing and an urticarial rash developing after drinking kava. Apparently individuals who develop the rash after drinking will develop it on each subsequent occasion, as occurred in the two patients described herein. The clinical significance of this is unclear except to suggest that some persons may be allergic to kava lactones."

If it happens consistently whenever you drink kava, yes it could be kava-related..

 

[verticity]

Great commentary! Somewhere on these Forums we ported a paper which suggests Cinnamic acid as a "skin-drying" factor.
Cinnamic acid is found in kava beverage.
I also wonder if folks who use non-traditional, solvent-based kava extracts get the dermititis ??
Quote from study-- "Cinnamic acid has been
shown to elicit immediate contact dermatitis, a mastcell-
mediated process, and to mobilize calcium in pancreatic
beta cells (Smith et al., 2000)".
Anyone for Cinnamon Rolls to chase the 'awa?

From this paper, right?
Shimoda, Pacific island ‘Awa (Kava) extracts, but not isolated kavalactones, promote pro-inflammatory responses in model mast cells.

That is a good paper and might be our best clue about the cause of dermopathy, but it is still pretty unsatisfying since they only demonstrate some kind effect on some cells that might be related to dermopathy, but don't draw a firm conclusion about the specific mechanism or components that are causing the effect, except to say that the three kavalactones they tested do not have any effect by themselves. The stuff about cinnamic acid derivatives seems to just be speculation about what other chemicals in kava might be involved by process of elimination, but isn't very conclusive or convincing.

(Since we are in the "in depth" sub forum, also note that AFAIK, kava doesn't contain cinnamic acid itself, but it does contain a couple related chemicals: cinnamic acid bornyl esters, according to Xuan, Chemical components of kava and Wu, Novel Compounds from Piper methysticum Forst (Kava Kava) Roots and Their Effect on Cyclooxygenase Enzyme. Also, Lebot in Pacific Elixer mentions that cinnamic acid is involved in the biosynthesis of kavalactones, but it's a starting material or intermediate that I don't think sticks around.. so in a sense kavalactones themselves are also cinnamic acid derivatives, and since KLs were shown to not have an effect on mast cells, it must not be true that any and all cinnamic acid derivatives necessarily have such an effect... )

It's intriguing stuff, but a lot more research would be needed to really figure out what is going on..

 

[Alia]

From this paper, right?
Shimoda, Pacific island ‘Awa (Kava) extracts, but not isolated kavalactones, promote pro-inflammatory responses in model mast cells.

That is a good paper and might be our best clue about the cause of dermopathy, but it is still pretty unsatisfying since they only demonstrate some kind effect on some cells that might be related to dermopathy, but don't draw a firm conclusion about the specific mechanism or components that are causing the effect, except to say that the three kavalactones they tested do not have any effect by themselves. The stuff about cinnamic acid derivatives seems to just be speculation about what other chemicals in kava might be involved by process of elimination, but isn't very conclusive or convincing.

(Since we are in the "in depth" sub forum, also note that AFAIK, kava doesn't contain cinnamic acid itself, but it does contain a couple related chemicals: cinnamic acid bornyl esters, according to Xuan, Chemical components of kava and Wu, Novel Compounds from Piper methysticum Forst (Kava Kava) Roots and Their Effect on Cyclooxygenase Enzyme. Also, Lebot in Pacific Elixer mentions that cinnamic acid is involved in the biosynthesis of kavalactones, but it's a starting material or intermediate that I don't think sticks around.. so in a sense kavalactones themselves are also cinnamic acid derivatives, and since KLs were shown to not have an effect on mast cells, it must not be true that any and all cinnamic acid derivatives necessarily have such an effect... )

It's intriguing stuff, but a lot more research would be needed to really figure out what is going on..

Yes, that is the paper...as I wrote earlier- it would be interesting to hear / learn if there are regular consumers of kava extracts on the Forum and do they get dermopathy?
It would have to be someone who only consumes extracts though. Honestly I hope the "cause" is not cinnamic acid since I drink 'awa every evening.
In at least 25 years of regular evening drinking I have only had a bad case of drying skin (that was obvious) one time. Even then I am not certain it was caused by the 'awa. It cleared up and has not come back.

 

[verticity]

Yes, that is the paper...as I wrote earlier- it would be interesting to hear / learn if there are regular consumers of kava extracts on the Forum and do they get dermopathy?
It would have to be someone who only consumes extracts though. Honestly I hope the "cause" is not cinnamic acid since I drink 'awa every evening.
In at least 25 years of regular evening drinking I have only had a bad case of drying skin (that was obvious) one time. Even then I am not certain it was caused by the 'awa. It cleared up and has not come back.

That wouldn't answer the question though, because cinnamic acid bornyl ester would be present in extracts (see the Xuan 2008 paper - they found it in water, acetone and ethanol extracts). It would actually be difficult to separate it in whatever form..

 

[Alia]

That wouldn't answer the question though, because cinnamic acid bornyl ester would be present in extracts (see the Xuan 2008 paper - they found it in water, acetone and ethanol extracts). It would actually be difficult to separate it in whatever form..

Now I understand ... thanks for making that clear.

 

[Zaphod]

Yes, that is the paper...as I wrote earlier- it would be interesting to hear / learn if there are regular consumers of kava extracts on the Forum and do they get dermopathy?
It would have to be someone who only consumes extracts though. Honestly I hope the "cause" is not cinnamic acid since I drink 'awa every evening.
In at least 25 years of regular evening drinking I have only had a bad case of drying skin (that was obvious) one time. Even then I am not certain it was caused by the 'awa. It cleared up and has not come back.

Do you drink mostly fresh kava, or is it dried? I just assume you lucky islanders with your own plants are drinking it fresh.

 

[Alia]

Do you drink mostly fresh kava, or is it dried? I just assume you lucky islanders with your own plants are drinking it fresh.

Yes mostly fresh but I like dry also.

 

[SelfBiasResistor]

I've had chronic/severe dermo for a few years now but after drinking kava from the NZ Kava Society for a couple of months it almost completely healed. Prior to that when I was only drinking 5 Star, it got better but still had severe flare ups. I will say that this root I've been buying from the Kava Society is much better cleaned than the 5 Star or any other kava I've had so I really think there is a component in the bark that contributes greatly to the dermo process or something lost in the drying process that protects against it. I've been drinking various US market products for the past few weeks and the dermo is coming back, fwiw.

 

[Zaphod]

I've had chronic/severe dermo for a few years now but after drinking kava from the NZ Kava Society for a couple of months it almost completely healed. Prior to that when I was only drinking 5 Star, it got better but still had severe flare ups. I will say that this root I've been buying from the Kava Society is much better cleaned than the 5 Star or any other kava I've had so I really think there is a component in the bark that contributes greatly to the dermo process or something lost in the drying process that protects against it. I've been drinking various US market products for the past few weeks and the dermo is coming back, fwiw.

I have had similar issues with particular kavas kicking in dermo very fast (1-3 days), and others being just fine even though I drank what subjectively I would say is the same amount for longer periods. Which again makes me wonder if kavalactones are not the direct culprit.

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

Hi all, I am new to kava. I have been drinking daily for about 4 weeks now. I drink tons of water, use coconut oil topically. My skin is getting wrinkly. My face and hands. Is this normal? Am I having a bad reaction? I am sad to think I have to give it up as it has been a huge help since I quite drinking alcohol 4 months ago. Any advice is appreciated.

for many people dermopathy only happens when they first start drinking kava, and then, like the lip numbing effect, it goes away as your body adapts to kava.

 

[David718]

I was getting dermo from fairly small amounts of Kava. I came to the conclusion (thanks to some members here) that I wasn't removing enough of the particles, considering that I grind my kava vs. kneading it, and was using a fine strainer. I use a fine cheese cloth (or similar) bag and dermo has pretty much diminished. Just this weekend I went much heavier on the kava than usual, and even with the cheese cloth my skin flared up almost instantly. I guess it was happening slowly as my hands have been dryer than usual, but I didn't notice until now.
So, perhaps filtering it twice. Once through the regular cloth you use and getting your hands on one much finer, and filtering again. Only the super fine one may take forever to filter. I actually just thought of doing something like this yesterday, going forward.