Is this legislativel bill a threat to kava ?

[Plantacious]

This is a bill that would create sweeping changes in the supplement industry, and kava may be caught in the crosshairs.

The bill gives them greater, unchecked power to ban supplemts. Every supplement and ingredient that is protected by DSHEA will have to have FDA approval to be sold.
Here is the bill itself :
As I find relevant things in the bill, I will post the quotes for ease of access for everyone

Text - S.4090 - 117th Congress (2021-2022): Dietary Supplement Listing Act of 2022

Text for S.4090 - 117th Congress (2021-2022): Dietary Supplement Listing Act of 2022

www.congress.gov

 

[The Kap'n]

This is a bill that would create sweeping changes in the supplement industry, and kava may be caught in the crosshairs.

The bill gives them greater, unchecked power to ban supplemts. Every supplement and ingredient that is protected by DSHEA will have to have FDA approval to be sold.
Here is the bill itself :
As I find relevant things in the bill, I will post the quotes for ease of access for everyone

Text - S.4090 - 117th Congress (2021-2022): Dietary Supplement Listing Act of 2022

Text for S.4090 - 117th Congress (2021-2022): Dietary Supplement Listing Act of 2022

www.congress.gov

Just read that, and I'm not a lawyer but I don't see anything in there that would prevent the sale of any dietary supplements. It seems to me to be adding additional requirements to those that wish to sell them. It just requires much more documentation to be filed with the state in order to do so.

It also says this information will be publicly available.

Again, definitely not a lawyer but even I can see the dietary supplement system is getting abused to hell and back, and this will probably be just one of many changes we'll begin to see.

They did add a new section which allows them to prevent sales of supplements by any person who has been convicted of a felony relating to importation of food into the United States.

 

[Groggy]

It might be a good thing as kava is pretty much legitimized.

Of course, I'd prefer to see kava listed a food but baby steps.

 

[Plantacious]

Of course, I'd prefer to see kava listed a food but baby steps.

Interesting, I guess it's more "protected" if labeled as a "food".
That had me searching for banned foods, out of curiosity. Interesting list - no Shark Fin Soup for you !
Actually that one depends on the state.

15 Foods That Are Banned in the U.S.

These are banned foods you can't legally buy or sell in the United States, or at the very least, in some states. Find out which foods they are.

www.eatthis.com

 

[kasa_balavu]

Looks good to me. The US supplements industry is dripping with snake oil, with regulation urgently needed.

15 Foods That Are Banned in the U.S.

These are banned foods you can't legally buy or sell in the United States, or at the very least, in some states. Find out which foods they are.

www.eatthis.com

Please don't share that site. It's a content mill that remixes articles and reposts them every month or so. They spread the same FUD about kava over and over.

 

[Plantacious]

Just read that, and I'm not a lawyer but I don't see anything in there that would prevent the sale of any dietary supplements.

It might be a good thing as kava is pretty much legitimized.

Of course, I'd prefer to see kava listed a food but baby steps.

Looks good to me. The US supplements industry is dripping with snake oil, with regulation urgently needed.

The f.cl.a. has a long, documented record of banning, or aggressively attempting to ban, natural supplements that have been fully legitimized already, proven by science and long history to be fully safe and effective, and not any form of snake oil
Just to name a few :
N-Acetyl-Cysteine : Simply an amino acid that actually occurs naturally in many foods we eat, and has been used by both veterinarians and hospitals for a long time.
Picamilon : Simply a bonding of 2 supplements, each of which are fully legal by themselves, but when bonded to form the preceded name, it has been banned. Also proven to be safe.
Vinpocetine : A natural plant with no known or documented history of unsafe use.
This is just a partial list. And just the facts, history, and events ; not my opinion.
The actions show a tendency to act against the best interests of the people and the public.
And the bill would make it easier for them to create "backdoor bans" of supplements, including potentially those that they have been unsuccessful in the past, in their aggressive attempts to ban.
Based on history, no supplement seems to be safe

 

[Groggy]

The f.cl.a. has a long, documented record of banning, or aggressively attempting to ban, natural supplements that have been fully legitimized already, proven by science and long history to be fully safe and effective, and not any form of snake oil
Just to name a few :
N-Acetyl-Cysteine : Simply an amino acid that actually occurs naturally in many foods we eat, and has been used by both veterinarians and hospitals for a long time.
Picamilon : Simply a bonding of 2 supplements, each of which are fully legal by themselves, but when bonded to form the preceded name, it has been banned. Also proven to be safe.
Vinpocetine : A natural plant with no known or documented history of unsafe use.
This is just a partial list. And just the facts, history, and events ; not my opinion.
The actions show a tendency to act against the best interests of the people and the public.
And the bill would make it easier for them to create "backdoor bans" of supplements, including potentially those that they have been unsuccessful in the past, in their aggressive attempts to ban.
Based on history, no supplement seems to be safe

It's pretty clear ( to me) they are going after K@ and while I know people here have mixed feelings about the harm/good benefits, I for one, am glad to see restrictions on K@. The majority of consumers don't know what they are getting themselves into, until it is too late and a habit is formed. I am against any diatery supplement that can have such a reaction.

 

[Plantacious]

It's pretty clear ( to me) they are going after K@ and while I know people here have mixed feelings about the harm/good benefits, I for one, am glad to see restrictions on K@. The majority of consumers don't know what they are getting themselves into, until it is too late and a habit is formed. I am against any diatery supplement that can have such a reaction.

I understand your position. I just believe that other supplements will be targeted as well, besides the one you mentioned ;
Other supplements that are valued by consumers and have a good track record of being safe, effective, non-addictive, etc ; based on that department's/agency's history. Perhaps some of them include things that you or others here take and value.

 

[The Kap'n]

Just a little info on those points:

N-Acetyl-Cysteine : Simply an amino acid that actually occurs naturally in many foods we eat, and has been used by both veterinarians and hospitals for a long time.

This one is surprising to me and rather damaging to the population if they actually go through with it. NAC is easily the best treatment for a number of different issues affecting the liver, especially acetaminophen toxicity, however I do understand that in that setting we hope the NAC is being administered clinically, and not at home.

(https://www.fda.gov/food/cfsan-cons...two-citizen-petitions-nac-dietary-supplements)

"If, among other considerations, the FDA does not identify safety-related concerns as we continue our review of the available data and information, we are likely to propose a rule providing that NAC is not excluded from the definition of dietary supplement."

NAC has been safely used for 30 years in America, so I hope we end up with the FDA accepting its' definition.

FDA Releases Final Guidance on Enforcement Discretion for NAC

FDA issued final guidance stating our intent to exercise enforcement discretion for certain NAC-containing products.

www.fda.gov

Picamilon : Simply a bonding of 2 supplements, each of which are fully legal by themselves, but when bonded to form the preceded name, it has been banned. Also proven to be safe.

Modifying compounds to cross the blood brain barrier changes their activity considerably, and as such, this is an entirely different compound from that of GABA or Niacin. The compound itself has no natural source, and has never been approved by the FDA. It's never been restricted, because it's never been approved.

Avula, Bharathi, Amar G. Chittiboyina, Satyanarayanaraju Sagi, Yan-Hong Wang, Mei Wang, Ikhlas A. Khan, and Pieter A. Cohen. 2016. “Identification and Quantification of Vinpocetine and Picamilon in Dietary Supplements Sold in the United States.” Drug Testing and Analysis 8 (3-4): 334–43. https://doi.org/10.1002/dta.1853.

Vinpocetine : A natural plant with no known or documented history of unsafe use.

Vinpocetine is unfortunately not a natural compound, and is derived from Vincamine. This doesn't meet the definition of dietary supplement as the compound does not occur in nature until it is processed by the manufacturer. It's synthetically produced.

Vinpocetine in Dietary Supplements

Vinpocetine does not meet the definition of a dietary ingredient.

www.fda.gov

 

[Plantacious]

This one is surprising to me and rather damaging to the population if they actually go through with it.

Fortunately that particular "ban" was stopped at the last minute practically, last year, thanks to an uproar in the Veterinarian Community, who showed great opposition to it. Up until that point, it was already removed from virtually all store shelves and websites, including Amazon, at that time, in preparation for the proposed ban. That's how close it came to being stuffed.
At least that's my understanding of basically how it went down

 

[The Kap'n]

Fortunately that particular "ban" was stopped at the last minute practically, last year, thanks to an uproar in the Veterinarian Community, who showed great opposition to it. Up until that point, it was already removed from virtually all store shelves and websites, in preparation for the ban, at that time. That's how close it came.
At least that's my understanding of basically how it went down

That's crazy. I wonder why they all of a sudden got a raging interest in NAC, probably one of the most safe and beneficial chemicals. In my opinion NAC is more of an actual dietary supplement than most other ones we think of when we say the phrase "supplement"

 

[Plantacious]

That's crazy. I wonder why they all of a sudden got a raging interest in NAC, probably one of the most safe and beneficial chemicals.

I believe it's because a lot of people were making medicinal claims about it, that violate the 'ol "This supplement is not intended to diagnose, prevent, treat any disease, etc..." disclaimer.
And the f.cl.a. doessn't take kindly to people, especially practioners, like naturopathic ones, that make bold health or medical claims about a supplement, or anything that's not a prescription drug.
There could be more to it than that, but I'm pretty certain of that much of the story.
I personally know a guy who simply produced his own probiotics, that had his premises raided by federaI agents, with weapons, and with threats against him to shut him down and jail him, simply because of his claims about his probiotics went beyond the scope of what is allowed. That's the truth and not exaggerated.

 

[The Kap'n]

I believe it's because a lot of people were making medicinal claims about it, that violate the 'ol "This supplement is not intended to diagnose, prevent, treat any disease, etc..." disclaimer.
And the f.cl.a. doessn't take kindly to people, especially practioners, like naturopathic ones, that make bold health or medical claims about a supplement, or anything that's not a prescription drug.
There could be more to it than that, but I'm pretty certain of that much of the story.
I personally know a guy who simply produced his own probiotics, that had his premises raided by federaI agents, with weapons, and with threats against him to shut him down and jail him, simply because of his claims about his probiotics went beyond the scope of what is allowed. That's the truth and not exaggerated.

Now that you mention it, I do remember seeing almost every bottle saying something about liver health.

 

[Kavadrinking]

The other reason why they want to ban NAC is because they don’t want us to be healthy. Almost everything we ingest (that is reasonably priced) in America is some chemical concoction made for our bodies to have a slow rot.

 

[Plantacious]

The other reason why they want to ban NAC is because they don’t want us to be healthy. Almost everything we ingest (that is reasonably priced) in America is some chemical concoction made for our bodies to have a slow rot.

Our Food is poison.
Our Prescription Drugs are poison, killing more people than illicit street drugs, even when taken as prescribed, up to 200,000 deaths per year.
What does that say about the agency that oversees both of those things - the Food and Drug Admin ?
Now they're talking about them getting more power to control supplements, as well ?
What could possibly go wrong ?

 

[The Kap'n]

Our Prescription Drugs are poison, killing more people than illicit street drugs, even when taken as prescribed, up to 200,000 deaths per year.

Do you happen to have a source on this that we could read up on?

 

[Plantacious]

Do you happen to have a source on this that we could read up on?

There are numerous such sources, but here's a couple.
The first link is regarding Rx deaths, exceeding that of deaths from illicit drugs.
The 2nd one is an article from 2016, which states that 128,000 Americans die each year from taking Rx as prescribed. Since that article was about 6 years ago, and stats show that the deaths keep climbing each year, that's how I estimated it's probably up to 200,000 a year now.
You can also find similar data, straight from the CDC.

Prescription Drugs vs. Illicit Drugs: What causes More Death

Deaths due to prescription drugs is now the #1 cause of deadly overdoses - more than illicit drugs. Know the hard truth here and the treatments available.

behavioralhealth-centers.com

https://health.usnews.com/health-news/patient-advice/articles/2016-09-27/the-danger-in-taking-prescribed-medications

 

[The Kap'n]

There are numerous such sources, but here's a couple.
The first link is regarding Rx deaths, exceeding that of deaths from illicit drugs.
The 2nd one is an article from 2016, which states that 128,000 Americans die each year from taking Rx as prescribed. Since that article was about 6 years ago, and stats show that the deaths keep climbing each year, that's how I estimated it's probably up to 200,000 a year now.
You can also find similar data, straight from the CDC.

Prescription Drugs vs. Illicit Drugs: What causes More Death

Deaths due to prescription drugs is now the #1 cause of deadly overdoses - more than illicit drugs. Know the hard truth here and the treatments available.

behavioralhealth-centers.com

https://health.usnews.com/health-news/patient-advice/articles/2016-09-27/the-danger-in-taking-prescribed-medications

I'm looking for research sources. These are people's essays. The behavioral health link is a treatment center again with sources that are not academic, and the other link lists no sources.

 

[Plantacious]

I'm looking for research sources. These are people's essays. The behavioral health link is a treatment center again with sources that are not academic, and the other link lists no sources.

Yea that's why I mentioned the CDC stats, in case you wanted something more than that.
I don't have that on hand, but I suppose it could be found somewhat easily.

 

[The Kap'n]

Yea that's why I mentioned the CDC stats, in case you wanted something more than that.
I don't have that on hand, but I suppose it could be found somewhat easily.

That's the thing. I've searched and cannot find that which leads me to think that maybe this number is misconstrued. The large numbers I'm seeing are due to opioid overdose deaths, which I concede could easily be included in the standard overall "prescription deaths" but is a bit disingenuous. All I'm seeing are CDC opioid overdose death stats.

I'm curious about this because I've personally not heard that, and cannot find it stated outside of one individual researcher that does not cite any sources, so I have to assume they just made it up. Donald Light is the author.