So I read on here that lots of ppl still get higher liver enzymes after using kava?

[TidyMinion]

Ok so I havent seen my doctor in years anyhow so i could make the first one aobut having a 'general overall checkup'. Then maybe say I am thinking of adding some supplements to my diet in the next couple of months and want to get another test in a few months. That should do it right?

Sounds like you have a good plan there. My levels were checked as part of my yearly physical so it's good you're going in for an overall checkup. I don't think you'd need to worry about your doctor knowing you do use kava. It's not illegal (although maybe there are different regulations in place in the UK regarding supplements and/or kava?). Really, I compare it to drinking tea because that's essentially what we do when we strain it in water. Try feeling out the conversation when you get there. If you feel like the doctor has your best interest in mind and isn't projecting any biases against supplements onto you then i'd talk to them about it. that way, they can build a medical history that reflects the positive and/or the negative effects for you personally along the way. If nothing else, maybe keep a log yourself of when you drink kava, how much, effects good or bad and, especially, how you feel the next day. There's plenty of good reference points in the forums here also. I wish you well on your journey from here!

 

[Gourmet Hawaiian Kava]

25 years is certinaly a good length of time to know . But indeed a sample size of 1 doesnt say much. I know lots of others take it without apparent harm which helps, but there havent beeen widescale reorting of enzymes.

Well its not really true its 'only a german problem' is it. Ive read studies about natives also having raised enzymes. Its just that the fatalities were related to the germans but there was still evidence of raised enzymes even in natives. Whehter they were rasied to the point of being dangerous or not I havent looked into that enough but I deifnitely recall them saying the fact the natives had is got rid of the 'native paradox' or whatever its called.

@Geiourht Could you provide a link to "these studies" that you say you read about the natives having raised enzymes, that would be great.
Aloha.

Chris

 

[Geiourht]

@Geiourht Could you provide a link to "these studies" that you say you read about the natives having raised enzymes, that would be great.
Aloha.

Chris

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21801196

Subsequent cases analyzed by the World Health Organization and published case reports revealed that traditional aqueous extracts used in New Caledonia, Australia, the USA and Germany may also be hepatotoxic; thus, there is no longer a basis to sustain the previously proposed Pacific kava paradox.

This: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14677792

seems to state that even if it does rasie them it isnt irreversible and they sort themselves out aftter a couple of weeks of abstaining right? Over the long term doesnt it increase your risk of cancer tho if something is consistently providing a toxic reaction like how alcohol gives you cancer?

 

[The Kap'n]

^^ There's your answer.

 

[verticity]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21801196



This: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14677792

seems to state that even if it does rasie them it isnt irreversible and they sort themselves out aftter a couple of weeks of abstaining right? Over the long term doesnt it increase your risk of cancer tho if something is consistently providing a toxic reaction like how alcohol gives you cancer?

Those studies are of Native Australians, not natives of places where kava is traditionally consumed. I believe alcohol is a big problem in those communities, and the quality of the kava they were using was likely sub-par.

 

[Deleted User01]

In my research on the Kava ban, about 99 percent of reported liver problems were caused by other things that the kava users were doing. Drinking is way up their on the list. Do you really think that Germans are going to give up their beer just because they are taking kava as a sleep aide? Not likely. There is still speculation about 1 or 2 cases but the Germans were taking tainted kava (as GHK stated) and no telling what that can do your internal organs. I would love to see a study by Fijian doctors on the people of Fiji. They drink kava like water over there and yet I never hear any bad reports coming from that country. For that matter, I have never seen any negative reports coming out of Hawaii either.

 

[Gourmet Hawaiian Kava]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21801196



This: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14677792

seems to state that even if it does rasie them it isnt irreversible and they sort themselves out aftter a couple of weeks of abstaining right? Over the long term doesnt it increase your risk of cancer tho if something is consistently providing a toxic reaction like how alcohol gives you cancer?

@Geiourht This study states that it is from kava that was used in New Caledonia, Australia, the USA and Germany, that is where the problem is because we know for a fact that these places get substandard kava, they get tudei kava, stem peelings and other plant parts that are not to be used. If what your saying is true then the people in Vanuatu would be getting the same kind of effect but they are not so your idea that kava causes this stuff even in traditional settings is plain wrong. I am in constant contact with kava experts and scientists from all over the world and we know that traditional use of pure 100% noble kava is safe. That is why I sell only 100% pure Noble kava. That is why there are people who insist on pure 100% noble kava and that is why we have Truekava.com that helps to test kava to show people who has pure 100% noble kava and who does not. Rest assured that pure 100% noble kava used in the traditional way is completely safe. So in a word or 2 your wrong about this study and your assumption that the study goes for everyone. Aloha.

Chris

 

[Deleted User01]

And that's why I don't get dermo. So there! Sorry, I'm only joking around. I couldn't resist. I only drink GHK noble and I never had dermo and my liver enzymes are on the low end of the scale like 16-18. I know Chris is very passionate about noble kava and I couldn't resist the urge to "pile on". Apologies to all.

 

[Geiourht]

I see well they are the ones stating in the traditiional manner not me. using the aqueoous method which was implying that was the tradiitonal way. but i see what your saying in that the samples were not traditional if they were not noble.

I imaigne you guys are so fed up of beating this dead horse with every newbie that arrives here

 

[sumguy]

Sounds like you have a good plan there. My levels were checked as part of my yearly physical so it's good you're going in for an overall checkup. I don't think you'd need to worry about your doctor knowing you do use kava. It's not illegal (although maybe there are different regulations in place in the UK regarding supplements and/or kava?). Really, I compare it to drinking tea because that's essentially what we do when we strain it in water. Try feeling out the conversation when you get there. If you feel like the doctor has your best interest in mind and isn't projecting any biases against supplements onto you then i'd talk to them about it. that way, they can build a medical history that reflects the positive and/or the negative effects for you personally along the way. If nothing else, maybe keep a log yourself of when you drink kava, how much, effects good or bad and, especially, how you feel the next day. There's plenty of good reference points in the forums here also. I wish you well on your journey from here!

My doctor actually suggested melatonin and valerian root when I first went in to talk about insomnia problems. Later, when I asked him about 5HTP or St. John's Wort for anxiety, he said there is good evidence for the latter, but not the former. So I wouldn't expect him to react negatively to kava, other than maybe wanting to make sure my liver stays OK. I guess he's not like most doctors, though.

 

[Deleted User01]

@sumguy, take one for the team and ask your Doctor about kava. I would love to see what he says about it and where he got his information. Your doc sounds like he is not against botanicals so it could get interesting. Just so you know, I'm going to tell my Doc the same thing. I'm pretty sure my doc did inhale ....

 

[Gourmet Hawaiian Kava]

I see well they are the ones stating in the traditiional manner not me. using the aqueoous method which was implying that was the tradiitonal way. but i see what your saying in that the samples were not traditional if they were not noble.

I imaigne you guys are so fed up of beating this dead horse with every newbie that arrives here

I understand what your saying but remember it is the quality of the kava that they are drinking in the traditional way. The stem peelings have a lot of alkaloids that are bad for you and the Tudei kava has who knows what else besides FLK A and B and C so that is why I said we try to encourage people only to drink 100% pure known Noble kava. Aloha.

Chris

 

[verticity]

@Geiourht This study states that it is from kava that was used in New Caledonia, Australia, the USA and Germany, that is where the problem is because we know for a fact that these places get substandard kava, they get tudei kava, stem peelings and other plant parts that are not to be used. If what your saying is true then the people in Vanuatu would be getting the same kind of effect but they are not so your idea that kava causes this stuff even in traditional settings is plain wrong. I am in constant contact with kava experts and scientists from all over the world and we know that traditional use of pure 100% noble kava is safe. That is why I sell only 100% pure Noble kava. That is why there are people who insist on pure 100% noble kava and that is why we have Truekava.com that helps to test kava to show people who has pure 100% noble kava and who does not. Rest assured that pure 100% noble kava used in the traditional way is completely safe. So in a word or 2 your wrong about this study and your assumption that the study goes for everyone. Aloha.

Chris

Well I agree, but to play Devil's advocate for a minute: How good is the medical care in places like Vanuatu and Fiji? Would an excessive number of people with liver problems actually be reported and noticed? Has anyone studied those populations specifically for liver enzymes?

 

[Deleted User01]

Well I googled the holy crap out of Kava and Fiji and all I found out is that Kava causes Vitamin B deficiency which may cause dermo and the Fiji Times is saying that Kava can cause car crashes. Yawnnnn. The people of Vanuatu and Fiji drink so much kava that if it was toxic, I gots to believe they would be falling like flies. Now, let's come back to this forum and let me say this. Some of you guys drink way more kava than some islanders and I would expect to see youse guys falling like flies if it was toxic. So far, no dead flies. Oh, maybe a little noxious gas here and there but no dead flies.

To me Kava has only 2 problems. Number 1 is dermo which hasn't effected me. Number 2 is over sedation which may effect you the next day. I'm attacking the latter by cutting down on the dose and it seems to be working. Just like booze, I guess we should only binge on kava on the weekends and take a measured dose during the workday to grease the poles as we pole dance our way thru the typical work week.

 

[verticity]

...take a measured dose during the workday to grease the poles as we pole dance our way thru the typical work week.

Nice metaphor there jman!

 

[Blippy5]

The info about derm possibly related to vitamin b is really interesting.

 

[kavadude]

Here's what I recall of the Vitamin B studies, and I don't have them handy unfortunately. Vitamin B3 deficiency causes a very particular type of skin issue called pellagra that researchers thought might've been related to kava dermopathy for some reason, but a quick glance can tell you that this is wrong, and a small trial where people with kava dermopathy were supplemented B-vitamins showed no improvement. I don't think there is any evidence to say that kava use causes depletion of any of the B vitamins.

 

[Blippy5]

S

Here's what I recall of the Vitamin B studies, and I don't have them handy unfortunately. Vitamin B3 deficiency causes a very particular type of skin issue called pellagra that researchers thought might've been related to kava dermopathy for some reason, but a quick glance can tell you that this is wrong, and a small trial where people with kava dermopathy were supplemented B-vitamins showed no improvement. I don't think there is any evidence to say that kava use causes depletion of any of the B vitamins.

Shucks a little extra b vitamins don't hurt though

 

[sumguy]

Some of you guys drink way more kava than some islanders and I would expect to see youse guys falling like flies if it was toxic. So far, no dead flies. Oh, maybe a little noxious gas here and there but no dead flies.

Well, one problem with an online forum is that dead flies can't post to say that they're dead flies.