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BMI and Kava

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Pacifico

Pacifico

Kava Enthusiast
Hello. I am Pacifico and I am the one that always posts about frustration with kava. I feel pretty good right now with no work tomorrow. I had 4 tbls of KWK Instant and one tbls of Pouni Ono tonight. I have a dull tingle all over. I feel more like I am in college with a pinch hitter than anything. I am wondering if we might be able to compare heights and weights with amounts of kava that it takes to get going. I have been out with large and lightweight people with that other type of drink so perhaps this could be a mixed bag.

Me: 5'8", 158 today: 4 tbls of KWK Instant; 1 tbls KWK Pouni Ono - Decent buzz. I ran 5K plus bike sprints today so I am probably dehydrated. I ate a jalapeño sausage kolache and a bear claw 4 tbls in as I was feeling a bit famished.

It would be nice to know if there is any correlation with BMI and amounts. So far, I think it's more mental than anything but it takes states to prove or disprove. I would love to hear from anyone comfortable with offering such information.

@Deleted User - i know that we have differences on one topic and believe it or not, I have had that same conversation that we had a few weeks back with my parents and some great friends. That conversation is never personal and I still show up to weddings and such. Please don't be offended. You are the king of stats around here and I would love your feedback on this one. As mentioned before, I respect your work and you in general.
 
verticity

verticity

I'm interested in things
I should clarify:

My height and weight are random numbers chosen with a bias for comic effect. I am an average height somewhat overweight male.

I actually am drinking 8 tbs of Kava Boy, but I don't slam it all at once. I divide it into 4-5 servings. 1 serving gives me a nice feeling, or mild buzz. Drinking the rest of it over the course of several hours maintains that feeling.

In theory, I don't think the height of a person (or BMI) would have any effect on their response to kava--but their weight by itself could. Effective doses of most drugs depend on a person's weight. To the first approximation, a 300 lb person would probably require double the amount of kavalactones as a 150 lb person to have the same effect. If a 150 lb man gains or loses 20 lbs, or increases his muscle/fat ratio through working out, I would not expect there to be any noticeable effect at all.
 
Pacifico

Pacifico

Kava Enthusiast
verticity said:
I should clarify:

My height and weight are random numbers chosen with a bias for comic effect. I am an average height somewhat overweight male.

I actually am drinking 8 tbs of Kava Boy, but I don't slam it all at once. I divide it into 4-5 servings. 1 serving gives me a nice feeling, or mild buzz. Drinking the rest of it over the course of several hours maintains that feeling.

In theory, I don't think the height of a person (or BMI) would have any effect on their response to kava--but their weight by itself could. Effective doses of most drugs depend on a person's weight. To the first approximation, a 300 lb person would probably require double the amount of kavalactones as a 150 lb person to have the same effect. If a 150 lb man gains or loses 20 lbs, or increases his muscle/fat ratio through working out, I would not expect there to be any noticeable effect at all.
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I think so too if we are saying that the absorption of kava by the stomach is that typical. I know big guys that smoke weed... very little weed to get some decent results. Different game I know. Then there is Wild Turkey, 151, and Jose. They knock people down with little discrimination.
 
nabanga

nabanga

Kava Enthusiast
From my own observations I don't think BMI has much to do with how kava affects you. I have drank similar amounts with emaciated 50-60kg friends as well as huge 140kg friends and we all end up similarly fried. In the islands I have been drinking with wiry old men and fit muscle-y young men at the same time and all seem to get hit more or less the same. Certainly no big guy in the corner chugging twice the amount.
I am not sure why this would be, because as Verticity rightly says, effective doses of drugs usually depend on a persons weight, but in practice it doesn't seem to apply to kava.
 
verticity

verticity

I'm interested in things
Pacifico said:
I think so too if we are saying that the absorption of kava by the stomach is that typical. I know big guys that smoke weed... very little weed to get some decent results. Different game I know. Then there is Wild Turkey, 151, and Jose. They know people down with little discrimination.
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I know, and the more weed you smoke, the bigger you get.

Alcohol is absolutely known to effect people in a weight dependent way, though.
 
Pacifico

Pacifico

Kava Enthusiast
nabanga said:
From my own observations I don't think BMI has much to do with how kava affects you. I have drank similar amounts with emaciated 50-60kg friends as well as huge 140kg friends and we all end up similarly fried. In the islands I have been drinking with wiry old men and fit muscle-y young men at the same time and all seem to get hit more or less the same. Certainly no big guy in the corner chugging twice the amount.
I am not sure why this would be, because as Verticity rightly says, effective doses of drugs usually depend on a persons weight, but in practice it doesn't seem to apply to kava.
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That's an interesting observation. That's why I ask the question.
 
Bradley666

Bradley666

Kava Enthusiast
Im not sure what I think about this,
Size usealy has alot to do with how drugs are absorbed into the body...but im not sure about kava...
Salvia is another drug that size means nothing ...iv seen 270lbs guys act like a little girl from a few hits of salvia lol..
But kava is very different then that..
Im 5' 6" and 170...
But Im still kinda a lightweight and I use about 3 tbsp max for med gring root powder...
2-3 tsp for instant or micro is about the max I need as well.
Weed is another thing that doesnt go by weight, 4 hits for a skinny 100lbs guy could be the perfect dose for a guy 3 times his size,
 
Pacifico

Pacifico

Kava Enthusiast
I am small/medium and on 10 tbsp; 4 tbsp of instant and 6 tbsp of micro. I feel like I could go run a few miles right now. It wouldn't be the most comfortable run but it should work. Good call on salvia. I have seen the videos. Size does not matter. It's still ridiculous. I tried once. I stood no chance.
 
tomkrat

tomkrat

Kava Enthusiast
i am 6'6" and 170 pounds and 2-4 tbs of traditionally prepped media grind kava is a night's worth of feeling good for me. my wife is 5'1" and i wouldn't dare guess her weight but she is petit and curvy (not Facebook "curvy" which tends to mean "lumpy" and spilling out of a 4X mumu) and she drinks the same amount of kava as i do and achieves similar effects.
 
August West

August West

Kava Enthusiast
Side note: out of all the daily heavy cannabis smokers I know, only one of them is slightly overweight. The rest are skinny as a beanpole. I wish I could smoke it, but it takes me too far away from my baseline. Even just one puff weirds me out.
 
Pacifico

Pacifico

Kava Enthusiast
Deleted User said:
Weight based dosage of a drug is usually aimed at a measurable effect, i.e. symptom reduction or elimination. With psychoactives the goal is not so clear; even where a measurement is possible (such as blood alcohol content) an equal number doesn't mean an equal subjective reaction. A person with a 0.04 BAC may feel (and act) more intoxicated than a person with a 0.10 BAC.

We tend to compare kava dosage by the only measure we have available (quantity per session), but this is hopelessly inaccurate. Even when using the same cultivar there are variables between users that, unless you are drinking from the same bowl, make useful comparison unlikely. Water temperature, water quantity, strainer type, pressure applied, number of washes etc all have an affect on the dosage. Add to this the varied reactions by different people to the same cultivar, the often varied reactions of the same person to the same cultivar, and "listening to the kava", and it starts to get very complicated. With different cultivars it's much worse; kava is not a simple substance like alcohol, it is a blend of six major kavalactones whose interactions we don't understand. 4tbs of Moi does not equal 4tbs of Nene!

If there's any basic rule that I have found, it's this: Listen to the kava - less is often more.
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Different strains, different potions. Real potions though.
 
Bubba Bula

Bubba Bula

krunkadelic relic
BMI is an strange number, and I know its used a lot. For example, insurance companies often look at BMI to gauge how much overweight a person is. There's just one problem. What if a person is an athlete? Its well known that muscles weigh more than fat. My BMI says I'm darn near being overweight, but if you look at me I look skinny. Why? I'm a cyclist and I have some massive leg muscles. Thats where all my weight is. So, BMI and kava. What role does fat play in the absorption of kava in the body? I have no idea, but its bound to play some sort of role, as @Pacifico suggests. Also, each person is different as far as sensitivities. I've always been very sensitive when it comes to kava. I never had RT, and usually after just one cup I'm really feeling it. (I'm about 6'4" tall and weigh around 200 lbs.)
 
Pacifico

Pacifico

Kava Enthusiast
awametal said:
BMI is an strange number, and I know its used a lot. For example, insurance companies often look at BMI to gauge how much overweight a person is. There's just one problem. What if a person is an athlete? Its well known that muscles weigh more than fat. My BMI says I'm darn near being overweight, but if you look at me I look skinny. Why? I'm a cyclist and I have some massive leg muscles. Thats where all my weight is. So, BMI and kava. What role does fat play in the absorption of kava in the body? I have no idea, but its bound to play some sort of role, as @Pacifico suggests. Also, each person is different as far as sensitivities. I've always been very sensitive when it comes to kava. I never had RT, and usually after just one cup I'm really feeling it. (I'm about 6'4" tall and weigh around 200 lbs.)
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You are very right. BMI is still relevant because most people are not muscular.
 
verticity

verticity

I'm interested in things
Deleted User said:
Weight based dosage of a drug is usually aimed at a measurable effect, i.e. symptom reduction or elimination. With psychoactives the goal is not so clear; even where a measurement is possible (such as blood alcohol content) an equal number doesn't mean an equal subjective reaction. A person with a 0.04 BAC may feel (and act) more intoxicated than a person with a 0.10 BAC.
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Right, obviously the effect of body weight is not as simple as I stated above. In the case of alcohol, there are a lot of factors at play, including tolerance and metabolism determined by genetics. A more accurate statement would be something very long winded, like: given a group of people with no tolerance to alcohol, of the same age and sex, with average liver function, the blood alcohol content will be, on average, proportional to intake and inversely proportional to weight, and the intoxicating effects will on average be roughly proportional to BAC.
 
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