Amitryptaline

[Buddhacide]

Hi all. I know this is not a kava related post, but I prefer this online community to others and I thought I would throw this out there because I know a lot of members here have psychiatric concerns. I went to the doctor today hoping to get a script for modafinil. As some of you might recall, I had some bloodwork done about a month ago and (in addition to an excellent liver) I was told I had some wonky cholesterol levels. So I took it upon myself to make some changes. I have been eating very well the last month. I have also started a nootropic regimen of piracetam, choline, and dmae. All things together, I feel amazing. I cant believe I felt like shit for so long just because I insisted on eating fast food and snacks. Anyway, in the spirit of nootropics I have ordered several other racetams and have been looking into other agents, modafinil being one I figured I could easily get a script for. My doctor didnt know what it was, but told me that he would not prescribe it because he has me on sleeping pills now, and he didnt want to "turn me into Charlie Sheen". So this is good in a way, because he is looking out for my best interest. However, what he then does is write me a script for Amitryptaline. I dont know if I have a prejudice here, but this is a serious drug no? Does anyone have any experience with it? I picked up the script (why not?) but I dont intend to use it until I get some good research done, and plus I'm sleeping ok at the moment. But I find it ironic that he would prescribe this drug in lieu of the much more benign one I asked for. Any thoughts? I'd love to hear from people that have used either modafinil or amitryptaline.

 

[kl.NDG]

What symptoms are you hoping to resolve, you have a stimulant and then a TCA (sedating) drug here, kinda two different ends of the spectrum. I assume you are dealing with trouble sleeping still and then fatigue in the day? Give me more info.

 

[Buddhacide]

Yeah, I was pretty krunked when I wrote this yesterday. It doesn't seem to read very well, lol.

I see a doctor ongoing for anxiety and insomnia. I have this whole complex array of symptoms, and traditionally my doctor has been prescribing me sedatives that I would prefer to getting off of. I have been looking at other measures, such as something like modafinil that could help me when I am tired to get through the day instead of piling on more and more sedatives that never seem to work long term and end up with me needing to taper them off. I was hoping modafinil might give me an alternative approach, to be taken only on days when the insomnia hits.

To be clear, when I say insomnia I dont mean I'm up doing things and looking for a speed fix to get me through the next day. It usually means that I am tossing and turning all night trying to sleep, or sometimes I even lose consciousness, but still wake up as if I havent slept at all - completely exhausted. I had to call in sick today for example because I woke up at 1:30am and was not able to get any rest after that. It sucks, and it happens regularly. If modafinil works the way I see it as described, causing alertness but not agitation, I may have been able to go to work today.  So, that was my idea. But instead the doctor very nonchalantly busts out yet a still stronger sedative with a worse side effect profile on top of the other medications that themselves no longer work.

So that's what made me ask what peoples experiences might be with these drugs.

 

[kl.new2kava]

Amitryptaline is known to be pretty heavy stuff. I get drug tested for probation and TCAs are one of the 7 drugs I get tested for. So that alone implies they are commonly abused and intoxicant in nature. When I was in jail some dude i knew got amitryptaline prescribed for insomnia and the medcart would come at 7:30 and he'd take it and just crash. People were up hooting and hollering until at least 2-3am and there would be at least one fight and this dude would sleep right through it. He was also a zombie until around noon the next day. That's really I know about that stuff.

 

[Ozzyfan121]

One of the manufacturer's brand names is Elavil or something, right? I've tried it once; a friend had some prescribed for insomnia and, according to her, depression. It was heavily sedating and not particularly fun, but very intoxicating. I wouldn't recommend it for insomnia for the simple fact that its fatiguing hangover effect renders the benefits of sleep kind of neutral; but I've only tried it once and everyone is physiologically different. I've never tried modafinil, so I can't comment on that.

 

[krunkedout]

I think I tried something similar to this once. I was volunteering for two weeks at a Christian camp and one of my roommates was prescribed a combo sleep aid antidepressant, it was very intoxicating, felt sort of like a mix between alcohol and weed, lots of euphoria. All good fun though but I could be thinking of something else entirely.

 

[kl.NDG]

If the doctor is prescribing it for sleep then you are taking 25-50mgs before bed. It is a sedating TCA, with the sedation being due to the anti-histamine and anti-cholinergic effects. I wouldn't call it a heavy drug per se, not at those doses, it is also used for ibs at those dosages and should have minimal effect on your mood.



Modafinil is ok, it has some perhaps serious long term side effects and seems to improve alertness but I don't think it would be of much help. It has a unique mechanism of action in the brain and seems to have little effect on focus and concentration. I would honestly suggest something like short acting methylphenidate or dextroamphetamine if you can control yourself. Those used occasionally will provide the alertness but the dopaminergic effects will enhance concentration and focus along with it. I can see using modafinil to stay awake while sleep deprived leading to piss poor cognition. I think nootropics are another good option, which you are trying.



What drugs are you currently on and what have you taken if you don't mind me asking. Do you exercise? if so how often? what is your sleep hygiene like?



Krunkedout: you have to be thinking of something else, taking this would feel like benedryl but worse.

 

[kl.new2kava]

I'd ask for something like ambien. Have you tried melatonin? It worked well for me, but gave me horrible nightmares. Some people do great with melatonin and it's cheap and OTC. Rozerem is a prescription sleep aid that is a synthetic melatonin that is pretty effective, just an expensive script to fill and fucked up dreams. Ambien is one of the more effective and less addictive ones I've taken. I've struggled with insomnia for over a decade and the most effective things I took were chloral hydrate which is rarely ever prescribed anymore and temazepam which works well but is a benzo and builds tolerance over time. I've been using phenibut for about a year and it works great as it's a GABA B agonist, it also builds tolerance and get quite addcitive. Your best bet is to stay away from GABA agonists altogether which is likely what your doctor is aiming for. You may also try hydroxazine which is an antihistamine with sedating properties and much less intoxicating that TCAs.

 

[Buddhacide]

Thanks all for the responses. I have tried pretty much every OTC supplement you can think of. I was also on benzos for 10 years, which I was eventually able to get off of. I am currently on zoplicone (ambien basically) and mirtazapine, but I'm in the process of getting off it because it doesnt work anymore and I think its linked to my cholesterol levels. My sleep hygiene is basically neurotic. I wear a mask and ear plugs and  have difficulty sleeping without some sort of white noise. I go to bed every weeknight like clockwork at 10:00, aiming to be sleeping by 11:00. Its the only way I can sleep at regular times. My real problem though is waking up after a few hours of sleep and then getting basically no rest no matter how hard I try. I have had sleep issues my whole life, but they really come out as a problem when there is something I "have" to do. Holding a 9-5, like I do, is very difficult for me. On the weekends, sleep tends to come much more naturally. I'm pretty sure I have some version of this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talkelayed_sleep_phase_disorder. The most frustrating part of what I have is that its not at all intuitive to other people. Things like melatonin, 5-htp, exercise, staying up later, exertion etc... While they make me sleepy, they do not assist with sleeping. Exercise is something I had to give up because it wound up being overstimulating, even if I did it in the morning. So, while I do very low impact stuff (long walks, longboarding) and I am generally quite active, I have to be careful not to overstimulate myself. My body just doesnt react to being tired by sleeping, and the less rest I get, or the more tired I am, the less likely I will sleep in the future. If I dont sleep one night, it becomes even harder to sleep the next. And I basically cant nap. Right now I'm basically trying to improve my diet, and like I said I've been having a lot of success with nootropics (in the morning) so far.



Incidentally, and to keep things on track, kava has assisted me greatly in many instances. Sometimes it works against me though.

 

[kl.cuvtixo]

An antidepressant makes some sense. It would increase serotonin, which is converted into melatonin at night, which is correlated with sleeping. I think they still haven't found a scientific reason for melatonin to actually cause sleepiness, though. And the antihistimine action should cause drowsiness.
 Have you tried taking stimulants in the morning? If you're doctor doesn't do Modafinil, I doubt he's prescribe ADD drugs like Ritalin or Adderall. But it seems to me you don't have a sleeping problem as much as avoiding-getting-tired problem. As long as you have a disciplined stimulant regimen, it might do the trick. 
Maybe give up the sedating medications and take just the Modafinil?

 

[Buddhacide]

Thanks. I have problems geting to sleep and staying asleep, but not all the time. Ususally one or the other at least a few times a week. I agree the sedatives are not working effectively, and if it does turn out to be the sleep phase issue (which is genetic) it might be the only realistic option. Because nothing I try really works for more than a few nights. I also think once I have a solid diagnoses he might be more apt to try adding stimulants into the mix.

 

[kl.storm999]

make sure you take it early enough. i would wait and try it a when you are off the next day. It makes you extremely drowsy the next day and very thirsty. other TCA's like trazadone have much less side effects. Elavil is extremely dirty and causes crazy dreams. what dose does he want to build you up too?