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Another disturbing story out of South Florida

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infraredz

infraredz

BULA!
Straight from the transcript:
"ADDICTED TO KAVA. NOW THEY'RE SUING THE WEST PALM BEACH BAR THAT THEY CLAIM GOT THEM HOOKED"

"BUT A JUPITER COUPLE IS NOW SUING THE BAR -- CLAIMING THEY BECAME ADDICTED -- AND COULDN'T STOP.. and they tried to get off of it, that's when they went through withdrawls, insomnia, headaches, diareah THE ATTORNEY FOR MICHAEL AND ERICA SIEGAL SAYS THE COUPLE SPENT THOUSANDS ON THERAPY AND REHAB. THEY THOUGHT THE DRINK WAS LIKE A COFFEE -- NOW THEY SAY IT'S MORE LIKE HEROIN."

"They just want people to knowKAVA IS A TRADITIONAL DRINK IN FIGI... ONE INGREDIENT IS CALLED K@.''

http://www.wpbf.com/news/south-flor.../22513616/-/s35mhx/-/index.html#ixzz2iDJrmC76
 
D

Deleted User01

All it takes is a couple of ner'do'wells to spoil it for everyone. And I hope that the Kava was not spiked with K@ which may have some addicting properties for certain types of people. I've taken it before and it's no big deal but pretty good if you are going to kill yourself in the back yard all day long.
 
infraredz

infraredz

BULA!
@Andrew Procyk had written about this a few weeks ago and what it sounds like (due to the absence of fact-checkers and a competent editor), the reporter acted as if Kava always contained K@ (leading me to think that the kava bar "spiked" the kava).
 
infraredz

infraredz

BULA!
Also, from the Purple Lotus website's "menu":
"The Komodo is another original Purple Lotus Kava Bar creation. We combine 100% organic, lateral root Vanuatu Kava with a blend of herbs to produce a 20x potency Kava drink. Not for the faint-hearted."

"The Black Pearl is an original Purple Lotus Kava Bar creation. The highest quality Kava blend drink with a little kick of energy, 5x potency."

"After creating the Original Black Pearl, Purple Lotus Kava Bar noted that a select few needed something more. And so, the Head Mod was born. Some call it a sledgehammer, others call it the "super-nasty", but we simply call it "The Head Mod". Take five Black Pearls, or Komodos, combine in one shell with our natural Kava, instant head modification."

Definitely sounds like they weren't advertising that their beverages contained K@ (if it was indeed true).
 
kavadude

kavadude

❦ॐ tanuki tamer
Thankfully someone in the comments has pointed out the quality of the article. I suppose hoping for a retraction from LOCAL ACTION NEWS is too much to ask?

Sloppy reporting aside, this is incredibly disturbing. Dosing people with opiates without their knowledge is insane.
 
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infraredz

infraredz

BULA!
I'm grateful for that good samaritan too ;)

I also think this is appalling. The fact (no matter what anyone says) is that K@ is a μ-opioid agonist, just like "normal" opiates. Does it require a higher dose to have an opioid-like effect? Maybe. Is it less harmful than other opioids? Maybe. Still, the fact remains that it has much more a potential for harm (not just physical/mental, but also perception) in regards to the kava industry. There are numerous kava bars that sell K@, although I can't find any other ones that don't label it as such. I'm all for the lack of litigation and detaining people, but this makes me furious because all it takes is a few of these articles to come out and soon enough, this will be the public's perception of kava ("If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth")
 
infraredz

infraredz

BULA!
There's also this article too, which at least is more oriented towards what appears to be the real problem:
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/n...le-sues-west-palm-beach-kava-bar-sayin/nbQ8Y/

But there is this quote:
"While caffeine cranks you up, he said, K@ and its sister compound, kava, promotes relaxation. Kava is a shrub native to islands in the South Pacific, while K@ is a tree that grows in Thailand and other parts of Southeast Asia. But their chemical compounds and the effects are the same."
Now, someone can come and tell me I'm wrong but they're not even in the same family, let alone order. Also, they produce very different effects and I think we all know they have very different compounds.
 
kavadude

kavadude

❦ॐ tanuki tamer
It's more than a little depressing that stuff like this can be put out. I mean you don't exactly have to be a Pulitzer prize winning journalist to fact check this information in the internet era.
 
Andrew Procyk

Andrew Procyk

Noble Kava
Kava Vendor
I spoke to a fellow who was looking to start a kava bar, who was interested because he drank at the Lotus. I asked him what he had consumed, and he told me "Black Pearls." I then informed him he had never had straight-up kava, and we went to another bar to get him initiated. It is imperative that people tell their customers just what the heck is in the drink.
Of course, if I am not familiar with coffee bars, and order a "Red Eye" I don't know what I am getting either. Caffeine can be said to be more addictive than K@ to some, but despite its side effects, does not make lists of concern, etc.
That said, Jimmy is a nice guy from all my interactions with him, but I can't say I did not warn him about this repeatedly. Why is there a problem just listing your ingredients?
And you are claiming kava and K@ caused you to spend thousands on rehab - please. Substances are not addictive, people's experiences with those substances are addictive. (Otherwise, everyone who used an "addictive substance" would become an addict by virtue of that definition, but they don't.) Don't blame a substance for your inability to control your relationship with it because of the experience it provides you. Sounds like there is some externalization and money-seeking going on IMHO. I bet they drank coffee or tea daily before they found the Lotus, and did not have any trouble living with their daily habit.
 
infraredz

infraredz

BULA!
My sentiments exactly. It's simply astounding that such obviously false statements can be printed by quasi-reputable news outlets (the first is an ABC affiliate). It's really not that hard to know that that kava does not contain K@. That statement alone almost gave me an aneurysm.
 
Andrew Procyk

Andrew Procyk

Noble Kava
Kava Vendor
"Quasi-reputable." I gotta snicker. Keep in mind, Delray Beach, in Palm Beach County, has more Half-way houses per-capita than anywhere else in the US. the 12-step rehab-industry is HUGE there, and they have influence over media, because the troops are activated if a story is published that doubts the voracity of the 12-step disease-model BS. It is for that reason that I do not think it possible to get ANY honest report about ANY substance out of the news market. All sensationalism tailored to a particular demographic. Heroin??! PLEASE!
 
kavadude

kavadude

❦ॐ tanuki tamer
kavadude said:
It's more than a little depressing that stuff like this can be put out. I mean you don't exactly have to be a Pulitzer prize winning journalist to fact check this information in the internet era.
Click to expand...
Not to mention having a high school level understanding of biology would be enough to figure out a shrub and a tree can't be the same thing.

I'm pretty mad over here, in case you can't tell. I actually sent an email to the Palm Beach Post reporter just now.
 
infraredz

infraredz

BULA!
As did I, and I think everyone who cares about kava should

Andrew Procyk said:
And you are claiming kava and K@ caused you to spend thousands on rehab - please. Substances are not addictive, people's experiences with those substances are addictive. (Otherwise, everyone who used an "addictive substance" would become an addict by virtue of that definition, but they don't.) Don't blame a substance for your inability to control your relationship with it because of the experience it provides you. Sounds like there is some externalization and money-seeking going on IMHO. I bet they drank coffee or tea daily before they found the Lotus, and did not have any trouble living with their daily habit.
Click to expand...
The (unfortunate) fact is that K@ is on the DEA watch list (and I can see why a μ-opioid agonist would be) and the more it gets associated with kava, the worse off we all are.
 
kavadude

kavadude

❦ॐ tanuki tamer
Overall what it comes down to is: you should have the freedom to put whatever you want in your body. But you should not be able to put whatever you want in other people's bodies.

Andrew Procyk said:
"Quasi-reputable." I gotta snicker. Keep in mind, Delray Beach, in Palm Beach County, has more Half-way houses per-capita than anywhere else in the US. the 12-step rehab-industry is HUGE there, and they have influence over media, because the troops are activated if a story is published that doubts the voracity of the 12-step disease-model BS. It is for that reason that I do not think it possible to get ANY honest report about ANY substance out of the news market. All sensationalism tailored to a particular demographic. Heroin??! PLEASE!
Click to expand...
Sad to say but I don't think any of my local news outlets would've done any better.
 
Andrew Procyk

Andrew Procyk

Noble Kava
Kava Vendor
"Watch list - smatch list" I say, in Woody Allen fashion. I am typing up a press release as my next O.O.B. I have video of my other - a daily user of K@ - giving a testimonial. A woman whose back is horrifically twisted from scoliosis, who has seen multiple surgeries. 3 in a year's time. She avoids taking pharma drugs because of it, and has energy, instead of becoming a lethargic, worthless human being on the pills. I have a taped interview with her as well. Her own physician recommended, "If one cup of it in the morning helps you - drink TWO cups!"
You know what happens when she suddenly stops? NOTHING. Maybe a slightly runny nose, but nothing of the sort described.
I have been on and off for 4 years because I have been self-treating crushed/bulging vertebral disks in the C-5/6 and C-6/7 that impede on the foramen and cause my arm extreme shooting pain, even numbness in the fingers at times. I have a Dilaudid script sitting in my cabinet for it. (Hydromorphone.) I am a perfectly functional human being, and it is safe to say I probably use a LOT of it compared to the two jokers in the story. When I stop, I have a day's worth of slight irritability and some sleeplessness. The last time I quot coffee, and had many more sleepless nights and a 3-day splitting headache to boot.
Classic "Reefer Madness" balderdash. Somebody doesn't know anything about a substance, so they want to sensationalize it, and make the world afraid of it rather than teach them about it.
Woke up - couldn't sleep.... time to be productive!
~Iahi
 
Andrew Procyk

Andrew Procyk

Noble Kava
Kava Vendor
And PLEASE stop calling K@ an "opiate." It does not come from the opium poppy. THAT is what an "opiate" is. It may have crossover-effect on some of the same receptors, but that is like classing kava with benzodiazepines, because it effects GABA receptors. Poppycock!
 
kavadude

kavadude

❦ॐ tanuki tamer
Opoid, sorry, is what I meant. I am sure it is an interesting substance in its own right but so are peanuts and I still would not dream of serving up a shell of kava with peanuts without making it clear on the menu.

Good luck getting the articles fixed Andrew.
 
Andrew Procyk

Andrew Procyk

Noble Kava
Kava Vendor
I am not disputing the absolute need to label ingredients - and warned the very subject of the stories years before this happened... but, I would not call K@ an "opioid" either. The primary actives in K@ have crossover-effects to various opioid receptors, but a ceiling on euphoria and respiratory depression. Additionally, they first have a bunch of andragenic activity before tooling with painkilling receptors. Find me one opioid or opioid peptide known that is similar to that.

K@ is what K@ is. It is probably related to the reason why the physical withdrawal from it is an absolute joke compared to scripted opioids drugs. Lets be careful not to throw one plant under the bus to try and save another, and address the fact clearly that people should know what is in their drink. If they don't know, they should ASK. (Hey, Jimmy, what is the difference between a "Vanuatu Kava" and a "Head Mod" on your menu.)
 
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