Are kava extracts safe?

[jmcrist]

Hi there,

I'm relatively new to Kava and still learning about what's out there.

To date, I've tried instant kava, and Waka root powder.

I'm curious about Kava extracts and heir safety. I see that folks on the forum are big fans of Paradise Kava extracts. They use a CO2 extraction method with no solvents.

Does anyone know how safe this is?

Are there any articles/studies you can link me to?

Thanks!

@Paradise Kava

 

[HeadHodge]

Hi there,

I'm relatively new to Kava and still learning about what's out there.

To date, I've tried instant kava, and Waka root powder.

I'm curious about Kava extracts and heir safety. I see that folks on the forum are big fans of Paradise Kava extracts. They use a CO2 extraction method with no solvents.

Does anyone know how safe this is?

Are there any articles/studies you can link me to?

Thanks!

I also have a similar question about this in another thread. It's recommended to avoid using extracts or tinctures that use alcohol for extraction, because alcohol pulls out undesirable chemicals from the root that water doesn't. But I can't find anywhere what these chemicals are nor how harmful they may be nor what sort of side effects they may cause.

Adils (Paradise) extracts are premium IMO. He states on his site he only uses water extraction techniques (I think under super high pressure) and he only uses premium kava for his extracts. Don't know which ones he use though (maybe a trade secret?)

 

[The Kap'n]

He uses supercricital CO2 for extraction

 

[jmcrist]

He uses supercricital CO2 for extraction

Any idea how safe this is?

 

[Kojo Douglas]

The @Paradise Kava extracts are absolutely divine. I usually blow through a jar though because I can't get enough (and then pass out with a big smile on my face).

 

[The Kap'n]

100% disclosure here. I, personally, have no data on the safety of CO2 extractions vs ethanol, methanol, etc. I'm hoping Adil can shed light on this.

It could be that carbon dioxide only extracts the lactones along with whatever waxes and oils are naturally present in the kava plant. Honestly I'm speculating. We'll let Adil chime in.

 

[HeadHodge]

@Deleted User, nice reply

 

[jmcrist]

Adil's extracts are in my opinion both excellent and safe. As far as methods of extraction are concerned, here's a breakdown:

• Acetone extraction: Agreed unsafe by all experts
• Ethanol extraction: Thought safe by some experts, WHO recommends they be avoided.
• CO2 extraction: Agreed safe by most experts

Ethanol extraction is inexpensive and easy to do, this is why it is so common. CO2 extraction is complex and expensive, but it does carry the advantage that CO2 is not required to be listed in the ingredients of a product, where alcohol must be listed. Ethanolic extracts have the additional problem of actual alcohol content in varying degrees, where CO2 extracts have nothing but kava. Both methods modify the KL balance to some degree, and both also extract molecules that water does not.

First of all, THANKS A TON for the detailed response.

I sometimes wish there were a central repository, or a giant FAQ, out on the net somewhere so that people could easily find answers to this stuff.

At any rate, for CO2 extraction you mentioned that "most" experts agree that it's safe. Any idea why some experts still think it might be unsafe?

 

[Squanch72]

Going to be out of town about 6 days and thinking of buying some Paradise extract since I don't want to do traditional prep at my family's house. Probably make up a couple jugs to take with me of traditional prep. Would a large jar make it through 5 days? Like maybe hitting it two to three times a day...or 4 since it is vacation after all.

 

[HeadHodge]

Going to be out of town about 6 days and thinking of buying some Paradise extract since I don't want to do traditional prep at my family's house. Probably make up a couple jugs to take with me of traditional prep. Would a large jar make it through 5 days? Like maybe hitting it two to three times a day...or 4 since it is vacation after all.

I take a butter knife and scoop a glob (like maybe 1/8 to 1/4 teaspoon?) and stick it under my tongue per session. I would guess If that's all I'm using I would probably do 4 maybe 5 sessions/day. So a jar might come close to lasting a week, but if it were me I would get a minimum of two (one chocolate and one mint or honey). JMO

 

[Squanch72]

I take a butter knife and scoop a glob (like maybe 1/8 to 1/4 teaspoon?) and stick it under my tongue per session. I would guess If that's all I'm using I would probably do 4 maybe 5 sessions/day. So a jar might come close to lasting a week, but if it were me I would get a minimum of two (one chocolate and one mint or honey). JMO

Thanks, what is the best flavor at room temperature as I won't be keeping it in a refrigerator?

 

[jmcrist]

All agree that organic solvent and CO2 kava extracts contain molecules that aren't extracted by water, and no one really knows how safe or unsafe these additional substances may be. Virtually all agree that water extraction of noble kava is safe, by virtue of much current research and a 3000+ year record of safe use.

Dr. Deleted User, ( )

Thanks yet again.

Do you know if there have been any adverse effects reported with the use of the CO2 extracts?

Would you, personally, use them?

 

[HeadHodge]

Thanks, what is the best flavor at room temperature as I won't be keeping it in a refrigerator?

For sure the chocolate or mint (I think they sell mint now). The mint is sort of gooey but solid at room temp and chocolate is sort of flaky but also solid at room temp. I would avoid the others, especially the lemon/honey. They come close to being liquid at room temp and I personally can't use those without refrigeration.

 

[Squanch72]

For sure the chocolate or mint (I think they sell mint now). The mint is sort of gooey but solid at room temp and chocolate is sort of flaky but also solid at room temp. I would avoid the others, especially the lemon/honey. They come close to being liquid at room temp and I personally can't use those without refrigeration.

Glad I waited a day and asked because I was going to snatch up the honey lemon, oh that seems kind of dirty now that I typed that out

 

[jmcrist]

I don't know of any adverse effects associated with known noble CO2 extracts. There are no doubt many associated with the two day CO2 extracts that exporters (mainly in China) keep trying to sell to everyone.

I've personally used two CO2 extract based products: Paradise Kava Extracts, and Kalm with Kava Relaxation Drink. I highly recommend them both, but neither can really compare to traditional preparation in terms of effects, their big advantage is convenience of use. The Kalm RTD goes a little beyond relaxation and tends to make me sleepy; the PK extracts are great for a "quick fix" when you really need it and don't have any traditional in a bottle with you (which I usually do!).

Thanks again. This is great information.

I think I'll try the Paradise extracts and see how it goes.

Would you happen to know anything about reverse tolerance?

I've had instant kava, regular brewed kava (2 tbls kneaded kava root per 8 oz water), and now several servings of kava prepared the CTAHR method.

I'm still unsure if I'm feeling the effects.

Any recommendations for how to get over RT without wasting a bunch of Kava?

 

[HeadHodge]

Any recommendations for how to get over RT without wasting a bunch of Kava?

My personal recommendation is using extracts like Paradise, because they pack a lot of kava lactones per dosage and taste good. It's the only product I know that totally bypasses your gut (you consume it by sticking it under your tongue and keeping it there until it dissolves). This means you avoid a lot of gut related issues. But unfortunately, they are the most expensive.

So if you are on a shoestring budget, my second recommendation is using a good micronized. Just mix it with water and swallow. No prep needed and you get the strength of the whole root. And it's more affordable.

If I had an unlimited budget I would hire a personal assistant to make and serve all my kava, fan me, and feed me grapes all day long. (basically a kava slave)

 

[The Kap'n]

@jmcrist kava is one of those things that if you have to question whether you're feeling the full effects, you aren't. The full effects of kava are very hard to ignore. Keep at it, kava will open up to you.