Biblical Spirituality

[Introspect]

Just wondering who here may believe in Jesus Christ and what The Bible teaches? I have always believed in God, but in 2001 I had an incredible spiritual experience (what The Bible refers to as being 'born again' so to speak) and it's been an awesome journey ever since. Of course I have made many mistakes, and (unlike many 'mainstream Christians' so to speak) will never claim to have it all together or all figured out, as I am, and will always be, continuing to learn daily. Throughout most of my life I have turned to cannabis to relieve my anxiety, but as soon as I discovered and tried kava it actually took away my desire to turn to cannabis. Kava has also helped me get back to 'Me' so to speak; helping me to focus better and not allow the daily worries and stresses of life get at me as much. I think it's amazing what God has provided for us here on earth to help us in various ways. Look forward to seeing who may add to this thread.

 

[Sacred Journey]

I am a big fan of Christianity and the Bible and I attend church every sunday and read the psalms daily. However, I also have an interest in many other forms of spirituality, so I wouldn't call myself exclusively Christian.

In addition to practicing Christian spirituality, I also like to just learn more about it, how it affected history, how differing viewpoints within Christianity were thougth about and debated throughout the ages, church history, the early Christian movements, the gnostics, and the Jewish understanding of the Bible and even older mythologies from which the Bible apparently borrowed many ideas. I think much can be learned from this kind of an approach, although by no means am I advocating this over a simple faith and virtuous lifestyle focused on pleasing God.

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

Just wondering who here may believe in Jesus Christ and what The Bible teaches? I have always believed in God, but in 2001 I had an incredible spiritual experience (what The Bible refers to as being 'born again' so to speak) and it's been an awesome journey ever since. Of course I have made many mistakes, and (unlike many 'mainstream Christians' so to speak) will never claim to have it all together or all figured out, as I am, and will always be, continuing to learn daily. Throughout most of my life I have turned to cannabis to relieve my anxiety, but as soon as I discovered and tried kava it actually took away my desire to turn to cannabis. Kava has also helped me get back to 'Me' so to speak; helping me to focus better and not allow the daily worries and stresses of life get at me as much. I think it's amazing what God has provided for us here on earth to help us in various ways. Look forward to seeing who may add to this thread.

I think member avahZ would chat this topic with ya.

As for giving God credit for the handful of beneficial plants, such as kava, then one must also give him credit for the exceedingly larger amount of plants(and numerous other things) that would cause you miserable pain, illness and often death. All created without warning signs too.

 

[verticity]

I know there are are a number of Christian members here, including @Deleted User (if he cares to say anything). I'm not religious, but my wife and child go to the Lutheran church. (Long story) I do believe the church is a positive influence in my daughters life, because it teaches values and offers a sense of community. So in general I have a lot of respect for the non-crazy denominations of Christianity, that is respect for those who take to heart the Christian ideas of helping the poor and "Judge not that you will not be judged", etc. Obviously, I disagree with a lot of the doctrine of certain denominations (with the possible exception of Unitarian Universalism), but overall the church seems like a good influence on people. Just not my thing.

 

[Summer]

I believe in Jesus as my Savior. I believe there is more to life than the here and now. I am thankful also, for His many benefits. He helps me everyday.

 

[I don't know]

I believe in Jesus and the Bible. I was saved 5 1/2 years ago and although my life has not been perfect it is so much better than it used to be.

 

[Sacred Journey]

I think member avahZ would chat this topic with ya.

As for giving God credit for the handful of beneficial plants, such as kava, then one must also give him credit for the exceedingly larger amount of plants(and numerous other things) that would cause you miserable pain, illness and often death. All created without warning signs too.

Untrue. First of all, many poisonous plants and animals do have warning signs, like very bitter taste, bright colors, etc. Secondly, it is possible to determine which plants are safe by starting with extremely small amounts and then working your way up from there. Either way, your ancestors have already done the work for you and you can't claim that you have trouble finding food on earth because its too poisonous. Lastly, poisonous plants and animals can be useful also, for instance for making poison arrows. But i think I also think there is a lesson to be learned from the toxic plants as well, namely that while nature is here to serve man, it is not here ONLY to serve man but also has a life of its own. and if man fails to respect nature, it has no problem turning around and killing him. Sounds harsh I know, but life on this planet is a great challenge and much spiritual growth can happen extremely quickly in a challenging environment. Thanks my take.

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

I was joking about the lack of divine warning signs printed on everything in nature. However, an aversion to bitterness and bright colors(in some instances) is merely an adaptation passed down through DNA and otherwise passed down through communicated knowledge. There are bitter and brightly colored plants that are nutritious as well...very imperfect, horribly ineffective and inefficient method, especially if assumed to be designed by a perfect God. What is definitely true, as you said, is that our ancestors did most of the work for us. Take any modern man and drop him into unfamiliar wilderness, with no botany training, and no local knowledge given to him...he's left with trial-and-error. Surrounded by a large chance for error, the real nature of things, completely indifferent and impartial to whether a person suffers in agony or pleasantly achieves their goals.

 

[Sacred Journey]

Right, the same way one might want to play an exciting and dangerous video game. Your argument is simply another version of the problem of evil argument, ei if God is good (and powerful) why is there evil in the world? Admittedly, that is one of the best arguments against the Christian iview of God.

However, I think there are possible explanations. The first is the traditional church teaching which states that evil is a result of man's choice. Earth was originally intended to be a paradise and man had direct communication with God, so he would not have difficulty knowing what to eat and what not to eat as this information could easily be given telepathically. Essentially God gave man the choice to learn about evil, either through watching or through participation in evil and man chose participation. This caused the whole of creation to fall and even nature itself became less hospitable to man.

The second explanation is the gnostic interpretation, which is that man is not at fault but the imperfect creation is a result of a second, lower God in between man and the ultimate God, known as the demiurge. I am not going to give an in depth explanation here, but if you google gnostic myths you can find plenty of information about this explanation.

Between this two, I am pretty satisfied with the Christian explanation of evil.

 

[blindy107]

Right, the same way one might want to play an exciting and dangerous video game. Your argument is simply another version of the problem of evil argument, ei if God is good (and powerful) why is there evil in the world? Admittedly, that is one of the best arguments against the Christian iview of God.

However, I think there are possible explanations. The first is the traditional church teaching which states that evil is a result of man's choice. Earth was originally intended to be a paradise and man had direct communication with God, so he would not have difficulty knowing what to eat and what not to eat as this information could easily be given telepathically. Essentially God gave man the choice to learn about evil, either through watching or through participation in evil and man chose participation. This caused the whole of creation to fall and even nature itself became less hospitable to man.

The second explanation is the gnostic interpretation, which is that man is not at fault but the imperfect creation is a result of a second, lower God in between man and the ultimate God, known as the demiurge. I am not going to give an in depth explanation here, but if you google gnostic myths you can find plenty of information about this explanation.

Between this two, I am pretty satisfied with the Christian explanation of evil.

I was under the impression that essentially the gnostic belief system was that of learning and knowledge be the lesser evil. Eating from the tree of knowledge was the more rational choice. The whole red pill, blue pill thing. Freeing us from bondage and dependence on the "evil" lesser God.

 

[Sacred Journey]

Yes, that is correct.

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

Its eating from the tree of good and evil,

So there was a divine un awareness of Both.

Then we became aware of good and evil, which takes thought, the only perceptive tool we have that allows awareness of separation. Through time.

Our divine mission here, is to reconcile the world and God.

To become aware of our connection with God and know it.

If the whole world were blue, we wouldnt know what blue is.
Thats how humans lived before "the fall", then we fell ( say green came into our minds, green is bad per se, so then blue also came into our minds, good)

Our mission is to re realize that the whole world is blue, thus evolving to a conscious relationship with god. rather than it just being so normal we dont even know it.

This is how babys live. All blue
Dogs all blue
cats trees fish, earth herself, so on so forth?

Dont believe me. Were you aware of good and bad when you were a baby? no but you were alive and conscious and most likley very joyful , even when you cried you were full in crying.

Then you got older and started thinking, then you think either good or bad, you fall from your state of baby grace.

Then the suffering that that state generates naturally causes you too accept that you dont know whats good and bad, you dont know who you are or what to do.

then you rise above thinking above good and evil, re merge with God consciously. This is a beautiful thing and brings all of earth up with us if we collectivley reach this state.

Jesus understood this and i have great reverence for Jesus. I will display that wisdom here.

"Consider the lilies, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin; but I tell you, not even Solomon in all his glory clothed himself like one of these. "But if God so clothes the grass in the field, which is alive today and tomorrow is thrown into the furnace, how much more will He clothe you? You men of little faith!" Jesus

He mentions it here. If flowers live in oneness with God and are so amazing that not even Solomon is like one of them, how amazing would a human being be if aligned with God? he asks. recognizes both the separation from god in humans and the opportunity to realign and do great things.

"God is not far from any of us, since it is in him that we live, and move, and have our very being" (Acts 17:28)

And then Jesus said — when they asked him, 'Where is the kingdom of heaven and when is it going to come?' — he said, 'The kingdom of heaven does not come with signs to be perceived. You cannot say, ah, it's over here or look, it's over there, for I tell you the kingdom of heaven is within you.'"

 

[Kavasheller]

Yes I'm a Christian and read the bible daily and am a member of Jesus one and only church, (see gbntv.org) as they can put you into the right church). I'm still researching to see if kava is ok to drink as the bible definitely prohibits alcohol and I think intoxicating beverages. I don't know if kava is intoxicating though . Does it dull or excite senses or impair them?

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

No kava doesnt dull your ability to connect with emotions and God. Its not a blockage to a spiritual path in any way in my experience. Nor does it enhance it to the point of dependance

 

[Introspect]

Awesome. Thanks for all the replies, whether you are of the same faith or not. I always appreciate intelligent conversation about GOD.

 

[verticity]

Yes I'm a Christian and read the bible daily and am a member of Jesus one and only church, (see gbntv.org) as they can put you into the right church). I'm still researching to see if kava is ok to drink as the bible definitely prohibits alcohol and I think intoxicating beverages. I don't know if kava is intoxicating though . Does it dull or excite senses or impair them?

Hello, welcome to the Forum, since I don't remember seeing you before.
To answer your question, kava can be and often is intoxicating. But it is much more mildly intoxicating than alcohol or most other drugs. It can actually both dull and excite the senses. It can dull them in the sense that it can just make you tired and sleepy. It can excite them too. A lot of people find that they are more sensitive to sound, and some kinds of kava can actually have more of a stimulant effect like coffee. But kava is very different from alcohol; it does not make people violent; it does not separate you from your true self--it does not turn you into another person like alcohol does. It does not cloudy your thought or your moral judgment in any way. As an intoxicant, kava is more akin to coffee than alcohol, but is in a sense actually "milder" than coffee, because coffee is addictive, and kava is not.

So for logical consistency, if a church:
1. Bans alcohol, but not coffee --> the church should not ban kava
2. Bans alcohol and coffee --> the church should ban kava

You could ask a pastor in your church this question to get a definitive answer, but they probably would not have heard of kava, so you would have to explain everything about it to them. Or you could just decide if it is something that is good for yourself.

Hope this helps.

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

Yeah if the church bans coffee because it's an alternate state that normal waking brain function. Then yes. But more than likely if they ban coffee it's because any addictive substance causes dependance. And dependance itself is the cutoff from God. Rather than the alteration itself. If that makes sense

 

[verticity]

Yeah if the church bans coffee because it's an alternate state that normal waking brain function. Then yes. But more than likely if they ban coffee it's because any addictive substance causes dependance. And dependance itself is the cutoff from God. Rather than the alteration itself. If that makes sense

That's a good point. But I don't presume to know anything about what the official word from Him might be, since I have never met Him to ask his opinion.

 

[Kavasheller]

Gods word is all the Bible. Our church/congregation are non -denominational, meaning we don't follow doctrines made up of men, and only follow what is said in New Testament ( new cup or agreement with God, as Old Testament was for Jews or people born in promised land and is not valid anymore).
Majority of us use the New King James Version.
All his new commandments we need to obey are in the New Testament that he made with Jesus Christ.

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

Yeah then anything not mentioned in their can't really be decided by your priest then either right?