Body weight and kava.

[Mira]

I am new to this, expecting my first samples in the mail in a week or so. At the moment, I am reading anything I find, but I am still a bit in the dark in some areas.

What I wonder about, is if anyone has any info or personal experiences about kava dosage and body weight? I am obese (BMI somewhere around 35-40), and yes, this is fat and not muscles. I intend to start out low either way, but I am a bit concerned that I might end up having to use more than normally, with a added strain on the wallet as a result.

 

[chandra]

Kava tolerance doesn't seem to have anything to do with body weight. It does vary from person to person. I'm an average weight female, and I seem to need more kava than some people on here. It also depends on the strength of the kava you have (strain), and what you are looking for. Anxiety relief can be found at pretty low doses. Whole body relaxation, pain relief, and a buzzed feeling (what we call krunked) take more kava. Some people experience reverse tolerance, which means they have to use kava for a week or two before they really feel it. Others like me felt it the first time. I have noticed when I run out and don't drink kava for several days, my first session or two aren't quite as effective, so kavalactones do stay built up in your system and enhance the effects.

 

[Deleted User01]

@Mira, I might also add that certain kavas suppress my appetite while others give me the munchies. So choose wisely. I think the heavier kavas are more prone to cause loss of appetite. Also, I read your post about finally figuring out what RT meant. Guilty as charge. I mentioned the word RT to a Newbie the other day and that wasn't helpful. I promise to me more vigilant in the future.

 

[verticity]

Like @chandra said, the amount of kava people need to drink to get effects varies widely. Some people need a lot (like @sɥɐʞɐs and he looks pretty skinny). Others are lightweights, like the notorious @Vekta . Personally, I am overweight, but I seem to need to drink less than sɥɐʞɐs to get the same effects. Kava is a drug, and in general, drug dosage does depend on body weight. However in the case of kava, weight is just one of many factors, such as genetics, metabolism, etc; and the factors other that weight seem to be more important.

 

[Alia]

Like @chandra said, the amount of kava people need to drink to get effects varies widely. Some people need a lot (like @sɥɐʞɐs and he looks pretty skinny). Others are lightweights, like the notorious @Vekta . Personally, I am overweight, but I seem to need to drink less than sɥɐʞɐs to get the same effects. Kava is a drug, and in general, drug dosage does depend on body weight. However in the case of kava, weight is just one of many factors, such as genetics, metabolism, etc; and the factors other that weight seem to be more important.

Wait a second verticity-- this is worth some input- is kava a drug? I think the dictionary is wrong when they label kava a narcotic or drug , technically kavalactones and/or the physiological compound is the "drug" but the beverage made from the ground-up dry or fresh root/stump is more like a food or drink. Kava beverage has at least 15 amino acids, has sugar, starch, Potassium, Calcium, Magnesium,... etc. It may be a technicality but I think for the reputation of kava, it is important. Lebot's original Yale University Press book- Kava, the Pacific Drug changed its name with the 2nd edition to Kava- the Pacific Elixir . I welcome your thoughts, and anyone else's, on this subject and as always- "if I'm wrong, I'll apologize".

 

[verticity]

Wait a second verticity-- this is worth some input- is kava a drug? I think the dictionary is wrong when they label kava a narcotic or drug , technically kavalactones and/or the physiological compound is the "drug" but the beverage made from the ground-up dry or fresh root/stump is more like a food or drink. Kava beverage has at least 15 amino acids, has sugar, starch, Potassium, Calcium, Magnesium,... etc. It may be a technicality but I think for the reputation of kava, it is important. Lebot's original Yale University Press book- Kava, the Pacific Drug changed its name with the 2nd edition to Kava- the Pacific Elixir . I welcome your thoughts, and anyone else's, on this subject and as always- "if I'm wrong, I'll apologize".

OK, you are right in the sense that the whole kava root is not a 'drug', but it does contain substances that can alter consciousness, and have other physiological effects, and could definitely be called 'drugs', just like coffee might not be a 'drug', but the caffeine it contains certainly is. I was just using the word 'drug' in a descriptive sense, I didn't mean to attach any negative connotation to that word. I see what you are saying that that word has acquired such a negative connotation. But like it or not, kavain acts as a drug; whether it is politically correct or not to call it that seems kind of silly. That's what it is. I doubt government regulating agencies will be fooled if we never use that word.

 

[verticity]

Anyway, the context here is I was answering a question about whether the effects of kava might depend on a person's weight, and I don't know how to answer that question clearly without using the d-word.

 

[verticity]

Oh, by the way, Welcome to the Forum, @Mira !

 

[Alia]

Anyway, the context here is I was answering a question about whether the effects of kava might depend on a person's weight, and I don't know how to answer that question clearly without using the d-word.

Yes, I do totally understand all you are writing. I realize it would be difficult to differentiate. There was a huge attempt by a noted scientist/researcher from Bavaria who has worked for over a decade to get the "Noble" kava beverage cultivars (of each Pacific Region) listed in Codex Alimentarius so they would be legally defined as a safe beverage. Alas, I have recently heard this all may have failed. I admit being overly sensitive to the issue.

 

[verticity]

Yes, I do totally understand all you are writing. I realize it would be difficult to differentiate. There was a huge attempt by a noted scientist/researcher from Bavaria who has worked for over a decade to get the "Noble" kava beverage cultivars (of each Pacific Region) listed in Codex Alimentarius so they would be legally defined as a safe beverage. Alas, I have recently heard this all may have failed. I admit being overly sensitive to the issue.

Are you referring to Dr. Schmidt?

 

[kavadude]

Personally, I have drank kava at 160 lbs and 220 lbs and noticed no real difference in the dosage I was using. Kava actually led to me losing quite a bit of weight due to not drinking alcohol, appetite suppression, and essentially having me doing intermittent fasting by not eating after 6-7PM most days.

My own personal experiences have led me to question the idea of whether dose/weight is very useful in describing the subjective effects of substances in humans. The thing is in animal studies, the animals are all eating the exact same diet, doing the same amount of exercise, etc. They are all very lean and other important factors (e.g. liver weight) are probably all very similar. In humans many of these variables could be different even among individuals of the exact same weight. Size may be a factor in amount used but it's not all that important.

Some people seem to be hardheads, possibly due to genetic differences in metabolism or something else. But there is really no way to tell how much you are going to use until you have been drinking kava for a while and established a pattern

 

[kavadude]

https://census.kavachat.com/#budget

Here's the census budget section. Almost a third of people fall into the $0-50 category, and half of people spend under $100

 

[Alia]

Are you referring to Dr. Schmidt?

Yes.

 

[verticity]

Yes.

I'm really sorry to hear about that...

 

[Squanch72]

The only times someone would accuse me of being a lightweight is how easily I can get twisted on small amounts of kava.

 

[Summer]

I will go even further and suggest that, in my opinion, kava intake may be dependent on where you are coming from with other drugs. I was on Klonopin quite heavily for six years and really feel like it takes more to "breakthrough" whatever damage I did. I definitely feel repair and renewal happening, but I am tall and thin and might possibly consider myself a total heavyweight after reading some people's intake amounts.

 

[Sam Handwich]

I started drinking kava at 205 lbs. and 10 months later I'm down to 161 lbs. (It's amazing what giving up the alcohol does to your metabolism!). I've not changed my dose and haven't noticed a difference in the kavas effect before or after the weight loss.

 

[Mira]

Thank you all for the warm welcome

Strange if it is not affected at all on body weight/body fat. Considering that it seems to bind to fat outside the body, it made me wonder if it would give a better "storage" of kava in the body. Individual tolerance will be interesting to figure out, and if I change tolerance if I reduce weight.

That several here reports that is can mess about with their appetite is not surprising, merely the taste and the fasting many seems to do before taking it should have some impact there.

Personally, I tend to have low appetite, oddly enough considering my weight. Some severe binging now and then, but it is rare. I am lazy, and have PCO, this is more the reason for my weight than food. It would not harm to have something that reduces my appetite to around 0 though. This time around, I have no idea of what will arrive in the mail for me (I ordered a "random sample" pack from KVK, and instant something from globalkava), but do you have any you would recommend or advice against @Deleted User01? And it is tricky to juggle lingo towards various people, I notice the same when it comes to several narrow fields of interests I have. It was nice to see they added it to the glossary though

For those that mentioned it, I am not coming off any drugs or medications, barring periodic usage of OTC painkillers (paracetamol, ibuprofen, and codeine) due to migraines, and in the winter muscle and joint pains. My alcohol intake is limited to a few times pr year, and something I can just avoid if needed.

It will be interesting to see how this lines up. If it works, I hope I can keep it under 1 lb pr month at least, as shipping and customs acting up will be the main culprit.

 

[verticity]

...
Strange if it is not affected at all on body weight/body fat. Considering that it seems to bind to fat outside the body, it made me wonder if it would give a better "storage" of kava in the body. ...

It is true that kavalactones are fat-soluble, not water soluble, but I don't think they are actually "stored" in body fat. That is, I have not seen any scientific source saying that happens.

That several here reports that is can mess about with their appetite is not surprising, merely the taste and the fasting many seems to do before taking it should have some impact there.

Kava can definitely have an appetite suppressing effect that goes beyond just the bad taste. It seems to actually have some effect on the brain that makes you not want to eat very much after you drink it. However, on the other hand, I find that with certain strains, such as Mo'i, I actually sometimes get the "muchies" after drinking kava. So the appetite suppression is not really consistent, i.e. it's not like a magic weight loss herb or something....

All the Kalm with Kava varieties are good. To make specific recommendations we would need to know what you hope to get out of kava. Anxiety relief? Depression relief? Sedation? Recreation?

 

[chandra]

I've tried three out of four kalm with kava varieties. Loa Waka is hands down my favorite. It really does depend on what you are looking for and how your body reacts to different strains. I've found kava, especially the more balanced or heavy varieties to be great for pain, especially muscle pain. Works wonders for my Fibromyalgia. Doesn't do much for my arthritis. I find all strains reduce my appetite. I could probably go a few days without eating if I was drinking kava, but I know that isn't good for me. I would suggest being careful with the paracetomenatal (i call it tylenol), ibuprofen, and codeine with kava. I have migraines as well, and I know when you need it you need it. One of my headache medicines contains tylenol as well. Unfortunately I have to get a prescription for mine, and I can't even get the formula with codeine which would be more effective, but I digress. These are metabolized by the same liver enzymes as kava, so mixing them can put a strain on your liver. It hasn't caused me any ill effects, but I like for people to be able to make an informed decision about any possible interactions. Asprin is metabolized differently, but for some reason drug companies love putting tylenol in there even when it's shown to be toxic to your liver on its own in high enough doses.