Hey guys,N00b alert. I'm new to making kava. I've only made my 5th batch tonight (First few was with Kona's Mahakea powder... 'nuff said). I've been blending it up pretty well, then straining, then kneading... but only knead for a minute or two before I give up (Thanks, ADD!). I've read a bit about kneading vs. blending, and am trying to resort to doing both... but just can't. Am I wasting the kava/kava experience by my actions??
Do you have the patience for kneading? I don't.
- Thread starter kl.icky
- Start date
kavalover
Outsider
Kava will give and give and give.... really I always get the feeling that I'm wasting it. I tend to spend a lot of time prepping, usually 5 or 10 minutes or so on blender and then pouring the mush into a strainer and letting that sit in a bowl for a good few hours - then straining for about 5 minutes. But still, I find that if I take THAT used kava and quickly squeeze another two cups out of it, it still will deliver a punch. Depending on the type of kava you're using of course, not kona definitely. lol.
Bula Kava house Melo Melo for instance just doesn't give up, the "squeeze until it stops feeling oily" advice doesn't apply there... lulz... because it never stops feeling oily. I guess that's a sign of good kava though, right? Anyway. I would definitely try to squeeze and knead more than a minute or two, try to go for 10 minutes at least and really work it. Watch a movie or TV while doing so as to not get too bored. I once kneaded for a half hour while watching the walking dead. It helps.
The more you knead the stronger your kava will get... as you're releasing the particles of root and the resins released by the water into the bowl.. so yeah... the less you strain it... the weaker it'll be. Blending before straining makes this a lot easier I'm finding.
Bula Kava house Melo Melo for instance just doesn't give up, the "squeeze until it stops feeling oily" advice doesn't apply there... lulz... because it never stops feeling oily. I guess that's a sign of good kava though, right? Anyway. I would definitely try to squeeze and knead more than a minute or two, try to go for 10 minutes at least and really work it. Watch a movie or TV while doing so as to not get too bored. I once kneaded for a half hour while watching the walking dead. It helps.
The more you knead the stronger your kava will get... as you're releasing the particles of root and the resins released by the water into the bowl.. so yeah... the less you strain it... the weaker it'll be. Blending before straining makes this a lot easier I'm finding.
Ok, so you let it sit for a few hours. I'll have to try that. I blend it for a few mins, then let it sit, blend again, let it sit for a half hour, blend, feebly attempt to knead.
I'm not noticing the oiliness; I do add soy lecithin (liquid), sometimes use a bit of coconut milk. But, kavalover, I'll take your advice and try to knead it whilest watching something. I think I have some more work to do on the reverse tolerence department, because the Isa I got isn't quite doing what I figured it would, but I'm being patient.
I'm not noticing the oiliness; I do add soy lecithin (liquid), sometimes use a bit of coconut milk. But, kavalover, I'll take your advice and try to knead it whilest watching something. I think I have some more work to do on the reverse tolerence department, because the Isa I got isn't quite doing what I figured it would, but I'm being patient.
kavalover
Outsider
Letting it sit does help, letting the kava soak makes it a lot easier to get all those resins and root particles, those carry the much loved kavalactones so you definitely want the best you can get. Also, warmer water (NOT hot) helps a lot in my experience. Just throw in a few ice cubes when done. I use milk too, anything fatty to help the extraction I hear is what you want. It definitely makes a difference in my experience - not lecithin but milk or coconut water. Haven't tried it yet but using vegetable or olive oil I hear is good too.
Dan
Kava Enthusiast
Hi Icky, I personally think you've been on the right track all along, or maybe I just say that because I don't have the patience for much kneading, either.
I always get terrific results with 2tbs (3tbs, max) by letting my root/water mix rest overnight, and, the next day, blending (4-5 minutes) and straining/kneading (depends on the root, usually 2-5 minutes) completely.
I always get terrific results with 2tbs (3tbs, max) by letting my root/water mix rest overnight, and, the next day, blending (4-5 minutes) and straining/kneading (depends on the root, usually 2-5 minutes) completely.
I've gotten the most potent results by kneading for about 30 minutes. Unfortunately, I hate kneading also, it makes my hands and fingers cramp up after several minutes.
For those of you that use a blender, do you blend for a minute/rest for a minute? Or do you let the blender run continuously for 5-10 minutes? I'm afraid that I'd fry my blender if I did it that way.
For those of you that use a blender, do you blend for a minute/rest for a minute? Or do you let the blender run continuously for 5-10 minutes? I'm afraid that I'd fry my blender if I did it that way.
kl.Sauroth
Kava Curious
Blending is ok, kneading can be twice as strong, depending on whether it is a coarse grind or not (coarse grind will not blend well). I go someplace else in my head by watching tv listening to music or reading things on the internet or one handed video games. I must be doing something else as well because my squeezing method is quite strenuous and it is not pleasant at all to be bored and doing this.
If I was blending it I did it for 5 minutes or on fast and liquefy. This had ok results for isa tudei and maybe the hawaiian stuff but didn't work real well for borogo.
If I was blending it I did it for 5 minutes or on fast and liquefy. This had ok results for isa tudei and maybe the hawaiian stuff but didn't work real well for borogo.
Kojo Douglas
The Kavasseur
Kneading is part of relaxing.. just imagine you are giving yourself a massage.
kl.new2kava
Kava Enthusiast
My first year of kava I too didn't bother kneading and opted for the blender method. After I switched over however, I noticed the most profound effects I had ever gotten of kava as well as I used much less root. The trick is to make large batches around 2 quarts that are enough for a few good kava sessions as kneading a single shell would be rather odd.
It should also be mentioned that using a blender will coat your blender with yellow kavalactone paste which is nearly impossible to clean out and your also getting chiseled out of the best part. I've found that the more work you put into a batch of kava, the more gnarly it turns out. I actually had to buy a seperate blender for kava prep to keep my girlfriends complaing at bay. I personally feel the kava gods frown upon evil mechanized kava prep and reserve the best effects for those who keep it traditional.
It should also be mentioned that using a blender will coat your blender with yellow kavalactone paste which is nearly impossible to clean out and your also getting chiseled out of the best part. I've found that the more work you put into a batch of kava, the more gnarly it turns out. I actually had to buy a seperate blender for kava prep to keep my girlfriends complaing at bay. I personally feel the kava gods frown upon evil mechanized kava prep and reserve the best effects for those who keep it traditional.
Ed!
Kava Enthusiast
I hate feeling like I'm wasting good kava when I buy a coarse blend and just hand-knead. Or like the Van3 that I just got where it's a combo of ultra-fine powder and barky chips, where kneading is going to push all that ultra fine stuff into my water and leave me with those barky chips. I feel like I'm going to get more if I bust those mothers up.
So I bought a $20 Hamilton Beach blender just for kava. It had great reviews, but it's not an "ice crusher" kind of blender (why it's cheap), so perfect just for my kava and maybe blending up some fruity beverages from time to time. I think I'm almost always going to blend + hand knead except in cases like Fu'u, where it almost feels dumb to hand-knead since it can all make it through my strainer if I knead long enough.
If I were to find that I just really couldn't stand kneading I'd probably just buy Fu'u in the future, but I really like the whole process. I didn't respect alcohol, and I feel like the soaking and kneading process helps me respect kava.... though I'll certainly keep my Fu'u + Instant Green handy for a bad day (thanks BKH for making it easy).
So I bought a $20 Hamilton Beach blender just for kava. It had great reviews, but it's not an "ice crusher" kind of blender (why it's cheap), so perfect just for my kava and maybe blending up some fruity beverages from time to time. I think I'm almost always going to blend + hand knead except in cases like Fu'u, where it almost feels dumb to hand-knead since it can all make it through my strainer if I knead long enough.
If I were to find that I just really couldn't stand kneading I'd probably just buy Fu'u in the future, but I really like the whole process. I didn't respect alcohol, and I feel like the soaking and kneading process helps me respect kava.... though I'll certainly keep my Fu'u + Instant Green handy for a bad day (thanks BKH for making it easy).
kl.new2kava
Kava Enthusiast
I've found the coarse ground kava is excellant for hand kneading as it's so spongy and easy to squeeze. You basically just keep squeezing out the good stuff untill there's nothing left to give. I think a less coarse grind or fine can pretty frustrating to knead and likely works best with a blender. I think my favorite grind and texture of kava I've seen thus far was N@H's chiefs, that stuff was a pleasure to knead. I used to opt more for finely shredded and wasn't crazy about boroguro when I used a blender, but when I broke down and kneaded a batch it blew me away and since then I've gone through 2 kilos of it. I've found that kneading it untill there is no goodness left is getting the most out of it and I go through alot less kava now that I've gone old school and get way more krunked to boot. I actually just ordered up a 1/2 kilo of stone today as stone kicked my ass before when I blended it and I can't wait to see how diesel it will be now doing it by hand.
I appreciate the input everyone. I'm going to give some good kneading a go; right now, in fact. 
*
* (afterthought: That phrase just sounds wrong, heheh)
Update: So I kneaded for about 7 minutes straight. I made this batch with Paradise's PNG Isa, and this almond/coconut milk mixture I had onhand (warmed up in the microwave first). I also added 1/2 tsp of liquid lecithin. Let me say that this store bought, sweetened milk concoction just makes it taste really bad. But I've had the equivalency of about 2 shells and feel pretty good, so this kneading business I'll continue.
The almond/coconut milk? Not so much...
* * (afterthought: That phrase just sounds wrong, heheh)
Update: So I kneaded for about 7 minutes straight. I made this batch with Paradise's PNG Isa, and this almond/coconut milk mixture I had onhand (warmed up in the microwave first). I also added 1/2 tsp of liquid lecithin. Let me say that this store bought, sweetened milk concoction just makes it taste really bad. But I've had the equivalency of about 2 shells and feel pretty good, so this kneading business I'll continue.
The almond/coconut milk? Not so much...
Eventually you'll probably settle on plain water like many of us. Coconut juice (more like water) is pretty good with certain verities of kava. It's nice and all but meh...you might grow out of it to a certain degree. I'd probably use it if I had it though.icky said:I appreciate the input everyone. I'm going to give some good kneading a go; right now, in fact.
* (afterthought: That phrase just sounds wrong, heheh)
Update: So I kneaded for about 7 minutes straight. I made this batch with Paradise's PNG Isa, and this almond/coconut milk mixture I had onhand (warmed up in the microwave first). I also added 1/2 tsp of liquid lecithin. Let me say that this store bought, sweetened milk concoction just makes it taste really bad. But I've had the equivalency of about 2 shells and feel pretty good, so this kneading business I'll continue.
The almond/coconut milk? Not so much...
kavalover
Outsider
Kava's natural flavor will grow on ya to the point where water is where it's at. At least, that's how it was for me. Katiedid turned me on to kava+milk which is actually pretty rockin since it seems to exaggerate the peppery notes of certain kavas. Maybe that's just me though.
kl.new2kava
Kava Enthusiast
I have yet to try milk. For some reason I'm afraid. I think it would best to make a small shell and if I can't take it than it would be no big waste. I don't understand what my milk phobia is with kava, I do really like the idea of using almond chocolate milk though. I am slowely in the process of moving towards using just straight water. I began with the blender and then moved to hand kneading using purely coconut water and have decreased it to 1/2 or 1/3 coconut water. Today I made a batch of stone with outright water and no soy lectin and it was great. I'm working my up to milk, but probably almond chocolate milk.
kavalover
Outsider
I find that you can almost totally mellow out the bitter peppery notes the more milk you use. I just made some melo melo with van3 (which makes a pretty potent brew, taste wise) with no water and just milk. about 10 tbsp kava to 4 cups milk to be exact. Man, it just tastes like milk as I chug it. A bit of a kava after taste but not much, how cool. I didn't even realize I could do that. It's interesting because if I mix 2 parts water to 2 parts milk with the same amount of the same kavas, the peppery notes seem exaggerated. But using all milk, the stronger notes that usually make my face wrinkle up are totally mellowed. Nice. I'm interested to hear what you think whenever you try it. The only real downside is that milk makes the kava a lot heavier, I feel full after 1 shell. :/new2kava said:
but I'll definitely have to remember this when I'm giving a newbie a shell
I really like using milk, but if you're worried, mix it in a low ratio, like two glasses water, one glass milk. Or adjust downwards so that you are only making one cup to experiment. I suppose it also helps if you like milk. I started using milk because I had read that fat was important and I didn't have lecithin, but also, the first few times I drank kava I mixed in chocolate powder. Now I've eliminated the chocolate powder, but I still like the milk. I don't really mind if it fills me up a little quicker, I'm usually pretty hungry when I start drinking. I've wanted to try the fruit combinations that people talk about, but I'm not sure how the flavor would be, so I haven't taken the risk. I can understand your hesitation with milk. Kava's pretty powerful stuff. I tried it once with water and vegetable oil (for the fat) and let's just say I some times drink it just with water, but I won't be adding oil again.