infraredz
BULA!
Heat (for these purposes) wouldn't destroy kavalactones though, so that wouldn't be out of the question
Member Soapbox Does anyone else drink kava all day?
- Thread starter Roaddog
- Start date
HeadHodge
Bula To Eternity
Great point. I totally forgot that it's okay to use hot water (as I'm boiling some water for my next batch).
I make muffins all the time. Maybe I'll try making a super thick batch of grog (like you do) and then mix some into the muffin batter. I could compare the potency of the two that way (to see if the muffin loses all effects, or what).
Monkava'd
A spoonful of sugar makes the Awa' go down.
I stand corrected Infraredz
, though the brownies are in the oven already; next time I will attempt to extract the kavalactones into the water and coconut oil mix which constitutes the brownie mixture. I saw that article when it was posted but obviously failed to recall the boiling temps which i should add are quite a bit higher than I thought . But one thing erks me....how long can these temperatures be maintained, as in is there a limit to the time where degradation occurs and potency decreases? Or will I just have to experiment to find out? 
Monkava'd
A spoonful of sugar makes the Awa' go down.
See HeadHodge the only issue since I've yet to attempt this that I can think of would be the taste; who would want to sacrifice a good batch of brownies, muffins, cake etc...for the trade off of a Kava treat
Though if the taste is muted through the baking process than I'm all for it! Nom nom nom nom
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infraredz
BULA!
No worries, it's a common misconception that a lot of people have about a lot of things.I stand corrected Infraredz
The temperature of the actual internal part of the root fiber would need to reach the temperatures in order to have a significant effect which I doubt it will based on what little I know about baking. I would assume that there is some degradation when the temperature gets near those points, and keep in mind that the boiling points were only theoretical and not actually observed, but there is a good amount of accuracy in determining these things from chemists that know what they're doing.
Monkava'd
A spoonful of sugar makes the Awa' go down.
It seems to me that there's an even greater chance of the survival of these kavalactones because of the fact they'll not only have been pre-emulsified but the structure will possibly have combined with the imposed oils/fats so that when heats applied (in theory) a linear gradual response and uptick in temperature will take place as opposed to like what you've stated with direct exposure.
And again this is all in theory with no real scientific bases represented. If an encapsulation of the kavalactones takes place does this stand to reason that a protective casing is created; or am I completely off key and the bond is actually being broke or separated when the mechanism of heat is distributed?
Sorry for all the questions and I know the internet "has all of the answers" but I like the discussion.
If necessary I'll fiddle with the temperatures once I ever obtain access to a larger amount of kava, to work out a baking time to potency ratio.
D
Deactivated Account
One of the reasons i cant move to Port Vila. No skin issues with fresh but i wouldnt even get my boots on if i lived there.
TidyMinion
Kava Padawan
It seems to me that there's an even greater chance of the survival of these kavalactones because of the fact they'll not only have been pre-emulsified but the structure will possibly have combined with the imposed oils/fats so that when heats applied (in theory) a linear gradual response and uptick in temperature will take place as opposed to like what you've stated with direct exposure.
And again this is all in theory with no real scientific bases represented. If an encapsulation of the kavalactones takes place does this stand to reason that a protective casing is created; or am I completely off key and the bond is actually being broke or separated when the mechanism of heat is distributed?
Sorry for all the questions and I know the internet "has all of the answers" but I like the discussion.
If necessary I'll fiddle with the temperatures once I ever obtain access to a larger amount of kava, to work out a baking time to potency ratio.
Say, get your hands on some instant or Micronized kava and just add it into the brownie mix before you add the liquids and mix it all up. I've noticed a taste with Micronized but it's not bad when mixed with other things. Actually tastes good when I mixed it with coconut milk and chocolate almond milkSee HeadHodge the only issue since I've yet to attempt this that I can think of would be the taste; who would want to sacrifice a good batch of brownies, muffins, cake etc...for the trade off of a Kava treat
Though if the taste is muted through the baking process than I'm all for it! Nom nom nom nom
Anyway, I'd be more worried about ruining a good batch of kava then a batch of brownies
(what's a box of brownie mix, 2-3 bucks?) let us know the results if you get around to trying it
HeadHodge
Bula To Eternity
@violet knows how to make "mini-muffins" using a small cup (but I don't know for sure how she does it). That might be a way to go to experiment.....Anyway, I'd be more worried about ruining a good batch of kava then a batch of brownies
TidyMinion
Kava Padawan
That got me thinking about a delicious lemon poppyseed muffin. Since we're finding that zesty citrus flavors really knock down that kava bitterness I wonder how much lemon could combat that flavor in a muffin. I had too small of a lunch now I'm already starving but it's working out since I have a cup of Micro Moi in front of me right now. Gotta get the evening started off right
Roaddog
Kava Who?
Well has anyone had any luck with the Kava dermopathy thing, by just cutting back. I have for several months, been using it at least twice a day, some days more. Usually 10 to 16 rounded teaspoons. Well I'm broke out pretty bad, in a couple spots. I received my Amlactin in the mail, and have been using it 2 days know. kind of burns on a few spots.
Well here is my plan of attack. Use the Amlactin, twice a day, and cut out all morning and day sessions. But still continue my evening Kava. The evening kava, will only be 6 rounded tea spoons. So I will basically reducing my kava intake per day, from 10 to 16 teaspoons, to just 6. Has anyone had luck getting rid of the dermopathy using this method. I really need my evening dose right know. Any advice would be appreciated. I'm trying to learn to listen to the kava, I'm being told to back off. But how far must I back off?
Much love. Roaddog....
Well here is my plan of attack. Use the Amlactin, twice a day, and cut out all morning and day sessions. But still continue my evening Kava. The evening kava, will only be 6 rounded tea spoons. So I will basically reducing my kava intake per day, from 10 to 16 teaspoons, to just 6. Has anyone had luck getting rid of the dermopathy using this method. I really need my evening dose right know. Any advice would be appreciated. I'm trying to learn to listen to the kava, I'm being told to back off. But how far must I back off?
Much love. Roaddog....
violet
Do all things with love
Cutting back sometimes helps me, but that's only when I'm consuming a lot of kava. I have found that when the Amlactin irritates the skin so much that it burns, the Amlactin prolongs the dermopathy by giving the skin extra irritation/inflammation to deal with. The lactic acid is delivered into the skin at low pH, if the skin is already irritated it can work a little too well. I would be mindful of the sensitive spots, otherwise Amlactin is good stuff.
When I occasionally get some irritated dermopathy, I use a prescription steroid ointment heavily diluted with lotion, takes out all the burn and itch. I usually only have to apply it once and wait a day for the dermopathy to become non irritated, just dry skin.
To echo kavadude, the only way mine completely disappears is if I abstain from kava. I've found a pretty good balance of how much kava I can drink while keeping the dry skin at a minimum, it's a trade-off I will gladly make.
If you are able to, you may want to try backing off long enough for the dermopathy to clear and then jump back in and feel it along as you go. You could also switch to using extracts in the meanwhile, which are probably least likely to cause any skin issues since the offending root material is not present to ingest.
When I occasionally get some irritated dermopathy, I use a prescription steroid ointment heavily diluted with lotion, takes out all the burn and itch. I usually only have to apply it once and wait a day for the dermopathy to become non irritated, just dry skin.
To echo kavadude, the only way mine completely disappears is if I abstain from kava. I've found a pretty good balance of how much kava I can drink while keeping the dry skin at a minimum, it's a trade-off I will gladly make.
If you are able to, you may want to try backing off long enough for the dermopathy to clear and then jump back in and feel it along as you go. You could also switch to using extracts in the meanwhile, which are probably least likely to cause any skin issues since the offending root material is not present to ingest.
infraredz
BULA!
http://www.kavaforums.com/forum/wiki/kava-dermopathy/
I personally have found that by using AmLactin at the first sight of dermopathy, I can continue to use kava daily and the dermopathy will still resolve in the pattern it presented as long as I use the AmLactin 2x a day and start at the first sign of dermopathy. Also, when I have this success (twice now), I have always strained with two nylon stockings instead of one to help in the sediment part.
I personally have found that by using AmLactin at the first sight of dermopathy, I can continue to use kava daily and the dermopathy will still resolve in the pattern it presented as long as I use the AmLactin 2x a day and start at the first sign of dermopathy. Also, when I have this success (twice now), I have always strained with two nylon stockings instead of one to help in the sediment part.
Roaddog
Kava Who?
Ok, I understand there are many members who constantly have it to some degree. I don't mind having a little itchy skin. But Things are getting pretty rough in
a couple spots, that would be covered by my boxer shorts, If ya know what I mean. I'm trying to get that to a manageable level. I cut out my morning dose today. I guess im trying to find my happy medium. I want to figure out when to back off, how much to back off how long to back off. At the same time, I want to know how much I can push things. I don't mind having crackly looking hands, and a few itch spots, that are usually gone pretty quick. I find that I don't always have it in the same spot. Sometimes Ill get an itchy scalp. others, my face will get red and puffy. Sometimes, If I really use hard for a couple days. Ill itch from head to toe.
Like last night. I was so broke out, when I went to bed. I am not nearly as broke out right know. Meaning it seems that the red puffiness, subsides pretty fast. I also like to now if I could get it to manageable levels, by simply cutting my intake in half. I mean I can handle the itches, if they were cut in half, If that makes sense. I also notice, that I usually take a 11 am Kava, and a 7pm kava. Usually my morning Kava barely breaks me out, its when I do my evening kava, that I really start getting red and puffy. I'm wondering If cutting my morning kava, and reducing my daily intake, will get me to manageable levels. Its weird how kava will not allow you to abuse it. If you try to, it will slap your hand.
I really would have no problem stopping it all together for a week or two, But I need it at night, because I am a recovering from medication withdrawals And it makes my evening so much better, almost great. I look so forward right know to my evening Kava. Its like a part of my nightly ritual, also it takes my mind off of the pain, for 4 or 5 hours, before I go to sleep. I just don't know If I can give that up right know. Maybe in 2 or 3 more weeks. But Kava lately has become my normal time. I don't know. Much love. Roaddog....
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Roaddog
Kava Who?
Ya Im going to strain the hell out of it. I use a handkerchief, that has smaller holes than a stocking. I think ill start double straining too. I ddid not see the last 2 previous posts when I posted last. Much love, Roaddog....
infraredz
BULA!
Yes like violet pointed out, due to the nature of the slightly acidic nature of AmLactin, definitely don't apply the AmLactin to any skin that is even remotely broken or inflamed.
This is why it's vital to start the Tx at the first sign of dermopathy.
Just some relevant excerpts from my post in the Wiki:
Prognosis
The dermopathy is benign and not dangerous. However, if care is not taken, it can become severe enough to cause the skin to split and bleed. Other ulcerous type lesions can also occur.
The dermopathy takes anywhere from 2 or 3 days to 3-4 weeks depending on the individual, how much and how long kava was consumed among other factors. Mild reactions will take less time to heal compared to more severe reactions.
Usually, the rash seems to start at one part of the body and then spreads. After the rash has spread, it will the exfoliate in the same order that it presented. It is not uncommon for the rash to get worse after cessation of kava consumption.
Treatment
Because the dermopathy is reversible, cessation of kava consumption can heal the dermopathy. Some anecdotal reports reveal that the dermopathy can be manageable with moisturizing lotion, multivitamins and/or Vitamin E applied topically without cessation of kava consumption. However, individuals might not respond well and would have to cease consumption for the condition to resolve.
[...]
Anti-histamines- Because dermopathy might be due to accumulation of antigens from skin proteins, and therefor an allergic response, 1st generation anti-histamines might have some efficacy. These include the most popular Diphenhydramine (found in Benadryl) and others such as Hydroxyzine (Atarax).
-Keratolytics are substances that have the "capability of decreasing cell-to-cell cohesion in the stratum corneum and, therefore, promoting the physiologic shedding process" [13][14]. Because of the accelerate sloughing involved with this, it is possible that keratolytics help to remove 'damaged' skin cells in the dermis which could be the cause of the local reaction associated with dermopathy. Among keratolytics, the two most common are Alpha hydroxy acids (AHA) and Beta hydroxy acids (BHA).
- AHAs include lactic, citric, tartaric, malic and glycolic acids. The two most common seem to be glycolic and lactic acid. Glycolic acids are the smallest on a molecular level and are more bioavailable, possibly leading to it being the most common. However, lactic acid has been shown to work exceptionally well for some people with ichthyosis.
Conclusion/Analysis
AHAs and BHAs are both Keratolytics which work by loosening the outer layer of skin, causing it fall off. In addition, keratolytics soften keratin allowing the a greater potential for moisturization of the skin. What I found was that the BHA (Salicylic Acid) did well to 'clean' the skin, and using the abrasive nature of the pad, I was able to remove some skin. However, the AHA tested (Lactic Acid) seemed to do exceptionally well at not only accelerating the shedding of the dry and flaky skin, but also moisturized exceptionally. As mentioned above, I did not apply the AHA for 24 hours and I found that, during that gap, a significant amount of skin flaking was occurring in that isolated spot (where I had been testing the AHA). Not only was it much more flaky than the other untreated parts of my body, but the flakes were much looser and easier to remove. After I sloughed these off with a washcloth, the area has continued to be clear and supple (normal) to this day (the 26th, 8 days after starting the application).
I found that the AHA not only did well to accelerate the process of shedding and sloughing off of the dead skin, but once that skin was removed, the area remained clear and supple, even during the 24 hrs of non-treatment.
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infraredz
BULA!
Sounds like you would greatly benefit from an antihistamine (most likely a First-generation H-1 antihistamine like Benadryl [diphenhydramine], Dimenhydrinate, or Cyclizine or Meclizine if you are overly sensitive to the sedative effects of Diphen. or Dimen.) for the itchiness as well as the edema (red and puffy face). I think this would work wonders for this part of the symptoms.
Roaddog
Kava Who?
Well Im taking 75mg. of diphenhydramine, at night for sleep. I also take 30mgs. Of melatonin with it. So Im already taking that. I was on Hydroxyzine, also, but I have stopped using them. My Doctor prescribed them for sleep, when I first started detoxing off my meds. (Also I have horrible insomnia, in ways) I have stopped using them. Thanks for the advice. Maybe that's why I see it come and go daily. Maybe the diphenhydramine is already doing the best it can. Much love. Roaddog....
infraredz
BULA!
Wow, that's a very high dose of melatonin! Do you mean 3mg? I'm pretty sure I remember reading that a dose of .3mg (or maybe 1-3mg) of Melatonin was just as effective as anything higher...
You can try taking lower doses of the diphen when you are experiencing those red, puffy symptoms since it sounds you probably have a somewhat significant tolerance to it due to using 75mg for sleep. Try 25mg during the day if the itchiness and such is bothering you. If that makes you too drowsy, I'd recommend that you try a Diphen.-containing cream for that.