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German's new government - a chance for kava?

Szafirek

Kava Curious
I haven't heard that the new German government talks about kava but...
They're planning to legalize marijuana for human consumption. So we have a revolutionary change on the horizon.
Perhaps this government could be reached with scientific knowledge on our beneficial and unfairly accused of hepatotoxicity plant.
I keep my fingers crossed for the countries of Oceania that raise this topic on international institutions and for all those who work for kava in Germany.
 

TheBastian

Kava Curious
I am from Germany. Well unfortunately I am not so optimistic.
The legalization of cannabis is of highly symbolic and political value, too.
It is a symbol of the green party which has it roots in those alternative hippie-like subcultures.
Kava at least as a beverage is just too unknown in Germany. Some people know it as a former prescription drug and that it is now damaging the liver - very sad.
And that agency that came up with the ban is very very assertive. They are not able to admit they were wrong. Even when they had to lift the ban for a short time because they were forced to as a result of a law suit that agency demanded from the physicians to controll the liver once a week and only prescribe it for three month. So heavy regulated that someone could think of a morphium recipe. It is just so ridiculous.
I think it is more likely that the actual pope admits he was wrong with something than that agency. And even if it would come back, it would be only as a prescription drug and not the traditional way.
It is much about the loss of face. And: because of a long tradition of alternative medicine in Germany I guess they want to be extra strict. Just to encounter alternative medicine. Even there are evidence based studies proving that everything is ok. They do not care. It is very ideological.
It is very sad. Well, I hope there will always be the possibility to order it from other EU-countries.
 

Edward

Aluballin' in the UK
Kava Vendor
I am from Germany. Well unfortunately I am not so optimistic.
The legalization of cannabis is of highly symbolic and political value, too.
It is a symbol of the green party which has it roots in those alternative hippie-like subcultures.
Kava at least as a beverage is just too unknown in Germany. Some people know it as a former prescription drug and that it is now damaging the liver - very sad.
And that agency that came up with the ban is very very assertive. They are not able to admit they were wrong. Even when they had to lift the ban for a short time because they were forced to as a result of a law suit that agency demanded from the physicians to controll the liver once a week and only prescribe it for three month. So heavy regulated that someone could think of a morphium recipe. It is just so ridiculous.
I think it is more likely that the actual pope admits he was wrong with something than that agency. And even if it would come back, it would be only as a prescription drug and not the traditional way.
It is much about the loss of face. And: because of a long tradition of alternative medicine in Germany I guess they want to be extra strict. Just to encounter alternative medicine. Even there are evidence based studies proving that everything is ok. They do not care. It is very ideological.
It is very sad. Well, I hope there will always be the possibility to order it from other EU-countries.
My business partner in Ireland is restocking and will be able to provide high quality US vendor sourced kava very soon and all over Europe from Europe.
 

Pauli

Kava Curious
I would be happy, if in EU there would be Kavabars, like there are in Florida. But it gonna take a while, i think
In Europe you can buy Kava with the tag "not for human consumtion" only. Why are we Europeans so ignorant when it come to the tousands of years of experience of Polinesia or the many American Kavabars, that seem not have any troubles with liver issues? The false claims remain, when you google in German language, you find the "Kava is dangerous" sites.
 

Jean

Kava Curious
They are many levels of problems in Germany linked to kava.
The first is the protection of the industry and to avoid prosecutions. Hence, instead of condemning people that have sold poisonous kava extracts or synthetic kava in Germany, that should normally be in jail, the plant has been condemned instead. From the diesel scandal (VW) to the Lipobay (anti-cholesterin from Bayer), and in contrast to the US, almost nothing has been done for the victims in Europe. The same for the victims of misused and altered kava. Hence, using kava as scapegoat allows to save both face and money.
The second point, brought correctly by TheBastian, is the battle inside German's official institutes between the scientists and the alternative medicines. Particularly, inside the BaFrM ( in charge of establishing the safety of medical drugs) special departments have been created to evaluate homeopathy and anthroposophical drugs (the anthroposophs believe that your illness is due to your behavior in a previous life) besides any scientific facts. Whatever one may think about those pseudo-medicines, the drugs produced for the homeopathy users and anthroposoph believers bring a huge amount of money to the country and therefore political power. Hence, there is in Germany a delicate status quo between the scientific medicine and the two above cited alternative medicines : there is almost no place for new comers like kava, that is neither interesting for the big pharmaceutical companies nor for the alternative medicines for which the plant is not linked to some magical virtues. In other words, kava suffers in Germany from the fact that it has first entered the market thirty years ago as a health product. Politically, one can easily understand that it will be difficult to downgrade it to a simple food supplement. Hence, indeed, scheduling it like legalized cannabis in a near future may be a solution.
 

TheBastian

Kava Curious
"Whatever one may think about those pseudo-medicines, the drugs produced for the homeopathy users and anthroposoph believers bring a huge amount of money to the country and therefore political power. Hence, there is in Germany a delicate status quo between the scientific medicine and the two above cited alternative medicines : there is almost no place for new comers like kava, that is neither interesting for the big pharmaceutical companies nor for the alternative medicines for which the plant is not linked to some magical virtues."

Well actually kava as prescription drug was well known as a good and natural alternative to benzodiazepines. I would say it was the most accepted anxiolytic prescription drug, while St. John's Worth is still the most accepted and most prescriped anti-depressant. Kava was known for 100 years (do not know the exact years, but since a long time before). There still exist lots of books dedicated to kava as a natural alternative.
So kava is not a new thing to Germany. But when the agency came with that liver issue EVERYTHING changed. From one day to another kava got the fame to be that very dangerous drug...
About that science vs. pseudoscience thing: what makes me so angry is that plant based medicine is very often mixed with that magical pseudoscience like homeopathy or anthroposophy - something that I don't use.
Lots of consumers even do not know that homeopathy has really nothing (!!!) to do with phytotherapy. But even the marketing is not interested to inform people. Nor physicians or pharmacists. And normally consumers who like pseudomedicine tend to prefer phytotherapy. I guess that that agency saw kava as a pseudo-medicine stuff. The wanted to be perfect in the evidence based medicine and kava was a victim - overdoing it.
They couldn't do it with St. John's Worth, because it is growing here and part of tradition and culture. But they could do it with kava...

The formula for lot's of consumers here is: plants are soft and synthetic stuff is like a nuclear bomb. When people argue like this I ask them: how "soft" is tabacco or how soft is "opium poppy"? Come on it's just natural .
Well, nevertheless I for myself have to say that I prefer something natural as well if it's posible. The reason is not the "softness" but the fact that normally the stuff is well known for centuries or even thousands of years. Adittionally - and this indeed is important for me - I have a higher compliance, because I feel more connected with nature and I am fascinated just of the fact that it exists. Just like kavalactones. I mean, we are here on earth and there a molecules like kavain.,Wow!!!
And to be honest: drinking kava from a coconut shell is a totally different setting that taking a pill. Kava is culture and has it's own estethic value. Like I like to drink coffee and not to take a caffeine pill.
But that doesn't mean that I wouldn't take synthetic prescription drugs if necessary. I am very glad to have access to modern medicine, indeed.
 

TheBastian

Kava Curious
In short: because of the alternative orientated consumers which they don't like they put kava in the same category as homeopathy or anthroposophy.
Even they doubt that kava has any effect beside placebo - hahaha.
 

TheBastian

Kava Curious
"the drugs produced for the homeopathy users and anthroposoph believers bring a huge amount of money to the country "
Oh yes, and those guys are complaining about big pharma....
Well I don't care. I just want my kava...
 

TheBastian

Kava Curious
Regarding cannabis there is quite a few that speaks its case.

How many does speaks kavas case?
If I should decide between legalisation of kava or cannabis I definitely would legalize kava in the first place. Well my opinion about cannabis is that it needs a minimum of CBD by law - to decrease risk of psychosis.
And even knowing that my ego 20 years before wouldn't accept my opinion of today:
better you have to be 21 years than 18 years - because of brain development reasons.
 

Jean

Kava Curious
One should distinguish between knowing the plant (I mean that the plant exists), its traditional use, on one side and its commercial medical use on the other side. The commercial use of kava as anxyolitic drug is very recent in Europe and started in the 90'. That the plant was available before, no doubt about this, my grandfather said me once that he got some in the 70's, but it was a curiosity and not even prescribed in the framework of phytotherapy since procurement (delivery) was not guaranteed what rendered it impossible to use as regular treatment. Following the work of Lebot, one should keep in mind that dry kava as it is sold and exported today was not common until recently (a few decades). Hence kava is old, has centuries of tradition in some Pacific islands, but is new in Europe (excluding the French and English territories in Pacific) and even in the US (apart from Hawaii and Samoa, of course).
 

TheBastian

Kava Curious
One should distinguish between knowing the plant (I mean that the plant exists), its traditional use, on one side and its commercial medical use on the other side. The commercial use of kava as anxyolitic drug is very recent in Europe and started in the 90'. That the plant was available before, no doubt about this, my grandfather said me once that he got some in the 70's, but it was a curiosity and not even prescribed in the framework of phytotherapy since procurement (delivery) was not guaranteed what rendered it impossible to use as regular treatment. Following the work of Lebot, one should keep in mind that dry kava as it is sold and exported today was not common until recently (a few decades). Hence kava is old, has centuries of tradition in some Pacific islands, but is new in Europe (excluding the French and English territories in Pacific) and even in the US (apart from Hawaii and Samoa, of course).

Ok this might be, that there was a big difference between theoretical availability via pharmaceutical delivery just for specialists or informed people and the uprising marketing and the hype from the 90's. In that case I have to correct me, and kava didn't have a long tradition at least among the population. Well, I thought so, because the pharmaceutical kava defenders here are arguing like that.
Maybe only because of that hype kava became target of the so called "investigation" of the agency. When it appeared on their radar.

And of course one should distinguish between the traditional plant use and the anxiolytic prescription drug.
Absolutely.
 
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