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I got Dermopathy and Dry Eyes and New to Trying kava!

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skippykava

Kava Curious
I kept trying kava for over a week every day trying to get it to work and failing a lot to make it work. Well, after about 7-10 days I noticed my eyes felt like I couldn't keep them open and I had to keep blinking (dry eyes). I found a guy on here who said he gets it really bad and confirmed it was from kava. I stopped trying kava and after about 2-3 max they were 99% better. Then about a week later I was in the shower scrubbing and noticed all my skin on my torso and mid body looked all dry and peeling sort of like I got sub-burn. I was puzzled, but then remembered this may be dermopathy. I wasn't drinking kava anymore by over a week at this point, so it wasn't going to get worse.

I drank my kava from the makas free from GHK, so people who think the makas cause these side effects it isn't. The one thing I do suspect though is that it is the plant matter causes these side effects more than the kavalactones. That makes me think somehow using a finer filter may help. I filter all my kava with knee high nylons just like the GHK guy shows and well known out there. However, I notice that at the bottom of the kava there is a silt like matter that settles to the bottom. I suspect this is the plant matter would be causing the problem if that is the problem causing side effects at all.

I wonder because I know that kava has been made into pharmaceutical product in Deutschland and I don't think it has these side effects after only 10 days. And, I got very little effects, which is why I kept trying.

This makes me wonder if maybe a final pass with some kind of coffee filter may help, either paper or metal or other filter. That would be a good experiment to see if it is more the plant matter fine silt that I talked about that is causing the problem or if it is just some of the actives.

Your thoughts? Anyone know anything about the silt or a finer filter after the knee highs doing moi loi?

Thanks
 
D

Deleted User01

@skippykava, though I have never gotten Dermo (from Micronized which is all I use), I have experienced dry eyes from Kava. But not lately. I think when my eyes are messed up from allergies or even fatigue, then the kava can take it up one more step. Some eye drops will cure that. By the way, that is a known side effect.
By the way, if you got dermo after 7 to 10 days, then I would imagine that Kava is not for you. Hell, I had dermatitis before I started kava and it hasn't gotten worse or better. I've been doing kava for 2 years now. As I stated on another post, alcohol seems to aggravate my skin more than kava.
One more thing, if you are concerned about plant material, try Instant Kava and see what happens.
 
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skippykava

Kava Curious
@Deleted User01 I have tried instant, micronized and med grind. The result is the same. Once you put it through a sock filter you will always get the fine silt at the bottom, IF you squeeze the sock. I think if you just jelly massage it AKA moi loi, then you don't get silt, but I think you might also not get enough kavalactones out.

This has lead to my conclusion that a final filter should be done if possible. I'm hoping that maybe a metal coffee filter or some other method will allow kavalactones through. Kavalactones are microscopic, so I would hope we could unbind them from the plant material as much as possible and pass them through a filter.

If you leave your kava in the fridge overnight or even 10 minutes you will notice a fine silt at the bottom. I believe this fine silt may be the cause of many side effects, but I don't know that.

I only hypothesize this because like I said there was a kavalactone extract which was available by prescription in Germany and I doubt it had such early side effects. Also, like I said I got little side effects.

I suggest doing the traditional moi loi through a knee high sock but then try running that through an even finer filter of some sort like maybe a coffee metal filter. I'm not sure if that is finer. See if you still get your traditional kava effects. If so then maybe the side effects won't happen for you or those who get them using this method.
 
The Kap'n

The Kap'n

The Groggy Kaptain (40g)
KavaForums Founder
I've personally used a coffee filter before. The kava immediately clogs up, and nothing strains. I've used a vacuum flask filter and even that took far too long. I suggest using the metal filter if at all possible.
 
endwatcher

endwatcher

Is there death before life?
You can also double up on the strainer, as in put one in another.

I am 100% certain now in days that dermo and most other of the common side effects are caused by the fine sediment. This conclusion is through vigorous testing on live subjects...as in ME..hahaha
 
D

Deleted User01

Kava is a starch and always settles at the bottom. When I make a kava cocktail, I always have a spoon in the glass to stir before ever sip. Don't get the starchy goodness at the bottom confused with actual fibrous sediment. And there should be no fibrous sediment with instant. But double straining surely can't hurt. Check it out and let us know if it helps.
 
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skippykava

Kava Curious
Doing double knee high filters, one inside of the other does nothing for the fine sediment / silt.

@endwatcher I believe I agree with you. I think it is most likely that the fine sediment or "silt" that you have to stir is the problem. This is only a logical hypothesis and not proven yet though. As I mentioned the pharmaceutical extract sold in Germany I don't think has the side effect.

I'd like to try using a metal coffee filter and see if it removes the silt, also hopefully it will not stop the kavalactones from going through.
 
August West

August West

Kava Enthusiast
If I don't force myself to drink extra fluids throughout the day and make sure my daily nutrition is adequate, all of Kava's negative side effects rear their ugly heads rather quickly. I've had dermopathy and nasty eye issues many times before. If I drink plenty of fluids, some fluids like sports drinks, and use moisturizer, I don't have issues. I also tend to squeeze the hell out of my grog, and always drink the sludge. Luckily for me, my body and mind let me know I need to abstain or cut back before dermopathy sets in. I'm very grateful that kava seems to self-regulate, so I don't have to worry about overindulgence.
 
endwatcher

endwatcher

Is there death before life?
I can also guarantee that if you are drinking Fijian......your gonna get dry, lol

I've been testing some materials to make some of my new strainers with. I picked one with a high thread count that took out much of that sediment. It weakened the Kava by about 10-15%, but made dermo side effects much less. I also think that stomach issues happen less frequent with the better filtered Kava. I ended up putting that material on the back burner for my brand strainers. But might consider it possibly for people with side effect issues.
 
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skippykava

Kava Curious
I had another idea. I found a video showing a new device called a "Clever Dripper" I bet if you put kava in there it may help keep the silt out. You can ever use the paper coffee filter and the metal one together. It is designed for coffee. You would probably use it as the last stage of the process. Using instant with this may be especially easy prep.
 
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skippykava

Kava Curious
Ok, I'm going to try to make kava a totally new way!

  1. Fast for 6-8 hours
  2. Use Clever Coffee dripper
  3. Metal coffee filter inside paper coffee filter
  4. Put dehyrated kava juice instant kava into metal coffee filter
  5. Pour boiling hot water into Clever Coffee dripper
  6. Let steep for 3-4 minutes
  7. Place dripper on cup which drains the coffee dripper
  8. Add ice to kava drink to make it cold.
  9. Drink
 
SelfBiasResistor

SelfBiasResistor

Persist for Resistance!
Really, if you're prone to dermo, taking a few days off or a week off here and there will be the best way to keep it under control. I get it quite severe with daily use but it doesn't take long to reverse. Otherwise fighting with heavy topical moisturizers is the next best thing, this has worked well with my face but not sure about full body dermo since I'd rather abstain temporarily than use that much lotion.
 
tomkrat

tomkrat

Kava Enthusiast
It really seems like you and kava just don't get along. Also, when I've strained my medium grind grog through a metal filter it has caught very little of the sediment therein and as @Kapmcrunk said the paper filter just instantly clogs: to call the resulting liquid grog would be a disservice.

Have you tried the drinks or concentrates from @Kalm with Kava? And if so, has it worsened your symptoms?
 
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skippykava

Kava Curious
endwatcher said:
You can also double up on the strainer, as in put one in another.

I am 100% certain now in days that dermo and most other of the common side effects are caused by the fine sediment. This conclusion is through vigorous testing on live subjects...as in ME..hahaha
Click to expand...
How do you avoid the fine sediment then? How do you prepare your kava? I've stopped making kava for now. I want to try that new kava ball shake thing when it comes out.
 
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