I Quit Drinking Kava until liver function test. Update:bloodwork is normal

[euphoricme]

So, firstly I want to tell you guys that I am not trying to scare you away from drinking Kava. Many of you have been dirnking Kava for many years without any problems and I see no reason why you should not continue to do so. Also, as far as I was able to tell from my research actual liver problems among Kava users are so rare that you should not be discouraged from trying it if you are reading this article and are new to Kava (in my opinion).

I had been drinking Kava for about 6 months to varying degrees of regularity. The past 2 months I had been hitting the Kava pretty damned hard. The main root I was using was Stone, but I was also using Wow and from Kalm I was drinking Pouni Onu and Loa Waka. My increased consumption can be traced back to my purchase of an Alu Ball (its just too easy...). I was drinking 2-3 "heaping Alu Balls" (probably like 4 tablespoonsish?) a day, occasionally a bit more on a weekend or something.

About 3 weeks ago I started getting some dull stomach aches under my rib cage on the right side. I have aches and pains all over (bricklayer...) so I wasn't too concerned about it at first. It slowly got worse to the point where it was pretty consistent and annoying. I put the Kava down for a few days and it seemed to subside. Now, I'm not sure what made me start drinking Kava again after I seemed to have found that it was causing me liver pain - but I did. After a 3-4 day break I started hitting the Stone again. The next day I woke up with more pain, I had trouble falling asleep that night as it was so painful.

Today I am about a week out from not drinking Kava. The pain has almost completely subsided. I should also note that I had no other symptoms of liver-failure (no jaundice, no fatigue, etc - just undeniable pain from my liver)

It may be of importance to note that I take a number of prescription medications. None of them are liver-taxing but perhaps there was an undesirable result from mixing kava with my medications. Though none of my meds are particularly liver-taxing I do have to go get blood levels and work done about once a year and I am due. I'll have my doctor add a liver function test to that to see what comes up. I'll probably get that done early this coming week, and will update you guys with the results.

I hope this information is of some help one way or another. I'm not trying to scare anyone here. If you have any questions feel free to ask.

 

[ThePiper]

I have experienced these symptoms early in my kava use when i would use health food store extracts. the prescriptions may be a problem

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

Good to post your personal experience, although the title is somewhat inflammatory and the subject is unsubstantiated. Since your 'liver problems' are self-diagnosed and completely anecdotal at this point, it probably shouldn't be claimed as fact already. The fact that you admit to taking a number of other concurrent medications is important and a good thing to take into consideration when consuming kava, alcohol or anything else.

Being that you have only experienced an ache in your body, but no other symptoms of liver problems, it's quite possible you're jumping to conclusions or mistaking one problem for another. Kava may make GERD flare up, irritate an ulcer or give you painful gas...all of which could be mistaken for liver pain. Other things like pancreatitis and gallbladder issues can also be mistaken for liver problems.

Definitely get checked out and please share your results. I'd be highly suspicious of your medications, please tell us what you're taking...all the way down to over-the-counter pain killers.
Most of the regular kava drinkers here have had our blood work done and never have any suspicious liver readings...in some cases there's actually an improvement over prior results.
The only other forum member to ever claim kava was causing them problems, was also taking Seroquel...and possibly other meds.

 

[NAMBATU]

Have you been a heavy drinker of alcohol?

 

[euphoricme]

Definitely get checked out and please share your results. I'd be highly suspicious of your medications, please tell us what you're taking...all the way down to over-the-counter pain killers.
Most of the regular kava drinkers here have had our blood work done and never have any suspicious liver readings...in some cases there's actually an improvement over prior results.
The only other forum member to ever claim kava was causing them problems, was also taking Seroquel...and possibly other meds.

Phenytoin Sodium, Sertraline, Etodalac, Baclofen, Trazadone

And where as you are correct that they are unsubstantiated (and I hope, very much so that there is nothing wrong and that is some odd coincidence) at 30 years old I have never experienced any similar pains to this - which are exactly where my liver is.

Have you been a heavy drinker of alcohol?

Yes, I have been in my early 20s but it has been 6+ years since i have done any drinking that could be detrimental towards my health.

And as was pointed out by shakas (?) the only yet unsubstantiated claim I have is liver pain - we don't yet know if there was any actual damage or if perhaps something else was causing the pain (though I'm granting these concessions I find them to be very, very unlikely). There may be nothing wrong but it seems to be to big of a coincidence.

I think I'll go get tested tomorrow. We'll know more then.

 

[euphoricme]

although the title is somewhat inflammatory and the subject is unsubstantiated. Since your 'liver problems' are self-diagnosed and completely anecdotal at this point, it probably shouldn't be claimed as fact already.

I actually agree. Can a mod change the title of my post to something more appropriate?

 

[ThePiper]

I really hope you get tested and share your results with us. I dont know anything about the liver tax that your meds may have but i do know that at least some are drugs with a long list of potential side effects. I took sertraline (zoloft) for a few months. And trazadone is one ive heard about too. You also have to consider that there are other causes of pain in your right side like kidney stones and gallbladder pain.

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

These are not all benign drugs that you have listed, and some, on their own, have reports of liver issues...let alone combinations. Many, if not all, are using the liver enzyme P450 during metabolization...which is also used to process kava. It's typically not recommended to regularly stack substances that all stress the same liver enzyme.

 

[chandra]

I looked up the first prescription you mentioned. Found this in the drug interaction part of Medicinenet"Before using this medication, tell your doctor or pharmacist of all prescription and nonprescription/herbal products you may use, especially of: colesevelam, molindone,pyridoxine (vitamin B6), sucralfate, sulfa drugs, telithromycin, drugs affecting liver enzymes that remove phenytoin from your body (such as amiodarone, azole antifungals including itraconazole, cimetidine, macrolide antibiotics including erythromycin, estrogens, isoniazid, rifamycins including rifabutin, St. John's wort, other anti-seizure medicines including carbamazepine/phenobarbital/valproic acid)." Kava is metabolized by the same liver enzymes as cimetide, so it could be an interaction with kava and this medication. The list for drug interactions that can affect the liver for this medication are very long. Combined with your other medications (didn't check them for interactions, but looks like they are there according to shakas), kava could be the last straw that's tipping the liver scale for you.

 

[euphoricme]

I really hope you get tested and share your results with us. I dont know anything about the liver tax that your meds may have but i do know that at least some are drugs with a long list of potential side effects. I took sertraline (zoloft) for a few months. And trazadone is one ive heard about too. You also have to consider that there are other causes of pain in your right side like kidney stones and gallbladder pain.

Well the phenytoin sodium (Dilantin) is for epilepsy. It is metabolizd by the liver but it isn particularly taxing. I don know about the rest.

I dunno. I guess that Iĺl know in a few days.

 

[Groggy]

I would also like to point out the more obvious possibility of it being gas, I have and many others have had the same symptoms and 9/10 times it is just gas. You are taking a bunch of meds. as well so that could be a contributing factor.

I can change the title for you if you still wish to do so.

 

[euphoricme]

I looked up the first prescription you mentioned. Found this in the drug interaction part of Medicinenet"Before using this medication, tell your doctor or pharmacist of all prescription and nonprescription/herbal products you may use, especially of: colesevelam, molindone,pyridoxine (vitamin B6), sucralfate, sulfa drugs, telithromycin, drugs affecting liver enzymes that remove phenytoin from your body (such as amiodarone, azole antifungals including itraconazole, cimetidine, macrolide antibiotics including erythromycin, estrogens, isoniazid, rifamycins including rifabutin, St. John's wort, other anti-seizure medicines including carbamazepine/phenobarbital/valproic acid)." Kava is metabolized by the same liver enzymes as cimetide, so it could be an interaction with kava and this medication. The list for drug interactions that can affect the liver for this medication are very long. Combined with your other medications (didn't check them for interactions, but looks like they are there according to shakas), kava could be the last straw that's tipping the liver scale for you.

Yuno, I really hope that there isn't any kind of issue. I've been taking most of these drugs for over a decade and have had regular blood work done. In my early 20s I was even a heavy drinker. These medications even mixed with copius amounts of alcohol never showed any liver problems some 6-9 years ago when I was drinking like that. If Kava really has hurt my liver as I fear it has I am going to be pretty devastated.

 

[euphoricme]

I would also like to point out the more obvious possibility of it being gas, I have and many others have had the same symptoms and 9/10 times it is just gas. You are taking a bunch of meds. as well so that could be a contributing factor.

I can change the title for you if you still wish to do so.

Yes, please... Something a bit more accurate until I know for sure. Not really sure how to phrase it. "Quit Drinking Kava, Possible Liver Problems?". Something like that would be better I think.

 

[verticity]

So, firstly I want to tell you guys that I am not trying to scare you away from drinking Kava. Many of you have been dirnking Kava for many years without any problems and I see no reason why you should not continue to do so. Also, as far as I was able to tell from my research actual liver problems among Kava users are so rare that you should not be discouraged from trying it if you are reading this article and are new to Kava (in my opinion).

I had been drinking Kava for about 6 months to varying degrees of regularity. The past 2 months I had been hitting the Kava pretty damned hard. The main root I was using was Stone, but I was also using Wow and from Kalm I was drinking Pouni Onu and Loa Waka. My increased consumption can be traced back to my purchase of an Alu Ball (its just too easy...). I was drinking 2-3 "heaping Alu Balls" (probably like 4 tablespoonsish?) a day, occasionally a bit more on a weekend or something.

About 3 weeks ago I started getting some dull stomach aches under my rib cage on the right side. I have aches and pains all over (bricklayer...) so I wasn't too concerned about it at first. It slowly got worse to the point where it was pretty consistent and annoying. I put the Kava down for a few days and it seemed to subside. Now, I'm not sure what made me start drinking Kava again after I seemed to have found that it was causing me liver pain - but I did. After a 3-4 day break I started hitting the Stone again. The next day I woke up with more pain, I had trouble falling asleep that night as it was so painful.

Today I am about a week out from not drinking Kava. The pain has almost completely subsided. I should also note that I had no other symptoms of liver-failure (no jaundice, no fatigue, etc - just undeniable pain from my liver)

It may be of importance to note that I take a number of prescription medications. None of them are liver-taxing but perhaps there was an undesirable result from mixing kava with my medications. Though none of my meds are particularly liver-taxing I do have to go get blood levels and work done about once a year and I am due. I'll have my doctor add a liver function test to that to see what comes up. I'll probably get that done early this coming week, and will update you guys with the results.

I hope this information is of some help one way or another. I'm not trying to scare anyone here. If you have any questions feel free to ask.

First, i'm glad you are having your doctor do tests.
Second, the fact that you feel pain in that location is not proof that the pain came from your liver. Similar to the heart, the liver itself can't actually feel pain, so liver pain manifests as things like back pain. So, clearly there is a correlation between drinking kava and something causing you pain, but it is a bit of a leap to assume it has anything to do with your liver. Especially since you have no other symptoms of liver disease.

Reference on liver pain:
http://www.ihealthblogger.com/liver-pain-location-causes-symptoms-diagnosis-and-treatment/

So, in addition to lab tests, you should ask your doctor to give your abdomen a thorough palpation (manual inspection of the abdomen) to see if he can feel anything, to actually identify the organ that is hurting. It might be the liver, but it might not..

 

[verticity]

Yes, please... Something a bit more accurate until I know for sure. Not really sure how to phrase it. "Quit Drinking Kava, Possible Liver Problems?". Something like that would be better I think.

I would add a personal pronoun in front of that:
"I Quit Drinking Kava, Possible Liver Problems?"
Otherwise it sounds like a command. lol

 

[verticity]

@KrunkyMonkey actually makes a good point about gas. I have personally had horrific gas pains after drinking micronized kava, for example. You don't specify how you are filtering your kava, but if you are using a coarse filter, or no filter, getting a good 80 micron nut milk bag might help.

Wait, never mind, I see you are using an AluBall. The mesh on that is about 80 microns I think, but you ought to inspect the AluBall mesh for rips or tears if you are getting those symptoms... it happens, and then a bunch of gritty stuff gets into your drink.

 

[verticity]

...
Definitely get checked out and please share your results. I'd be highly suspicious of your medications, please tell us what you're taking...all the way down to over-the-counter pain killers....

I would add: vitamins and other supplements. Niacin can actually cause liver problems, for example.

 

[Groggy]

I would add a personal pronoun in front of that:
"I Quit Drinking Kava, Possible Liver Problems?"
Otherwise it sounds like a command. lol

He can just changed the title himself, I zoned out on that earlier @euphoricme - top right hand corner, there is an Thread Tools ---> Edit Title button, you can change it there.

 

[verticity]

I looked up the first prescription you mentioned. Found this in the drug interaction part of Medicinenet"Before using this medication, tell your doctor or pharmacist of all prescription and nonprescription/herbal products you may use, especially of: colesevelam, molindone,pyridoxine (vitamin B6), sucralfate, sulfa drugs, telithromycin, drugs affecting liver enzymes that remove phenytoin from your body (such as amiodarone, azole antifungals including itraconazole, cimetidine, macrolide antibiotics including erythromycin, estrogens, isoniazid, rifamycins including rifabutin, St. John's wort, other anti-seizure medicines including carbamazepine/phenobarbital/valproic acid)." Kava is metabolized by the same liver enzymes as cimetide, so it could be an interaction with kava and this medication. The list for drug interactions that can affect the liver for this medication are very long. Combined with your other medications (didn't check them for interactions, but looks like they are there according to shakas), kava could be the last straw that's tipping the liver scale for you.

Yeah unfortunately, kava is metabolized by a wide array of P450 liver enzymes, so it is difficult to find any drug that does not share a metabolic pathway with kava. (Although there are some weird ones like Neurontin and Aspirin). That doesn't necessarily mean you can't take any other drugs with kava. The fact that two things are metabolized in the same way is not necessarily a bad thing, unless the metabolic pathway is saturated...but caution is advised. In general, it is strongly advised not to take things like Tylenol that are known to be toxic to the liver with kava, though.
(Actually CYP-450 is not a single enzyme. It is a family of enzymes..)
Oh, by the way
I am not a doctor

 

[euphoricme]

First, i'm glad you are having your doctor do tests.
Second, the fact that you feel pain in that location is not proof that the pain came from your liver. Similar to the heart, the liver itself can't actually feel pain, so liver pain manifests as things like back pain. So, clearly there is a correlation between drinking kava and something causing you pain, but it is a bit of a leap to assume it has anything to do with your liver. Especially since you have no other symptoms of liver disease.

Reference on liver pain:
http://www.ihealthblogger.com/liver-pain-location-causes-symptoms-diagnosis-and-treatment/

So, in addition to lab tests, you should ask your doctor to give your abdomen a thorough palpation (manual inspection of the abdomen) to see if he can feel anything, to actually identify the organ that is hurting. It might be the liver, but it might not..

I'll call and make an appointment tomorrow. I have a pretty extensive and sordid drug history and I have actually found Kava to be pretty wonderful stuff (a side from my eyes getting super dry and my contacts then becoming super hazy until I take a break, but w/e). It isn't addictive, it's not very expensive - well, I mean you guys drink Kava so you know what's appealing about it. Anyway I would love to continue drinking it, though I threw away a couple kilos of root when I decided it was actually really, really hurting me.

I would add a personal pronoun in front of that:
"I Quit Drinking Kava, Possible Liver Problems?"
Otherwise it sounds like a command. lol

Any mods willing to oblige? I have no problem with that.